Cue Collectors Conversation

L

Love The Game

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a vested interested in cue collecting; I own a whole bunch of the damn things. Why buy? The main reason - there are only so many of the classics. Compared to the commodities market, cues are on sale. Just buy the right name brands, right..bought 6 in the last 10 months.....

Easily understood. They are like blue chip stocks, only prettier. What names do you go for? Try anything that starts with Szam... also, Balabushka is good, but very limited...suggest Tascarella, Tad, Searing, SW, Scruggs, Boar, Bender, Schick, Hercek, and any of the really old Ginas and Scruggs. Best of the best.

There have been a bunch of postings on the main forum re which cues to buy. I understand that. Buy low, sell high. Easy to do, right? Only if you stick to the classics. Buy Gus at any price.. Really doesn't matter. Best cue to own, period. Second best, right now, ebony nose SW. Asian players are in total love.

Mottey, Joss West, Kikel, Cog, old Bluegrass, Gilbert, Martinez, Judd, Buss, Bender, James White, Runde, Harris, Young, and more.....

Got tired of thinking. Ha,,, BTW, just bought a 10 point snakewwood Bender. They made me buy it....... LOL....
 
It's an Interesting thought...

Would you say you are making money, or are you like the guy that own 100+ guns that says they never loose value but wont sell one even for a profit? Not going on the offensive here but I see alot of folks on here and around the country that have some pretty cool stuff that just won't deal. How do you find them, and what do you look for. does the cue have to be something like SW for $1500 that you can resell for 2k+, or do you look for something that will accrue value, or do you look for a fixer upper that will gain value by repair or conversion? or all three???


good topic BTW,

Justin
 
Collecting is collecting. Making money is another matter, that is dealing in cues...being a cue dealer. There is the matter of occasional buying and selling to work up to a higher valued cue, simply in order to afford it. That can be a component of collecting. Then again, dealing can be a way to support collecting.

Some dealers call themselves collectors when they are in fact primarily dealing. Some cue flippers call themselves collectors when they are in fact primarily flipping. I don't see flippers and dealers as being the same thing though the lines can be blurred just as they can be with collecting.

The way I see it collecting may or not involve considerations of monetary value. Collecting can be for the "joy" of ownership. It can also be as a matter of preserving for posterity some cues that one feels are of some representation of a genre or era. So there are matters of historic value as well as whatever personal value one invests in cues.

Personally I feel the "best" cues to collect are the ones a person would enjoy owning and can afford.

The joy for me is derived from getting involved with the rich history of cue making and the industry of cues in general. This includes imports and mass produced cues as well as the sort of "semi-customs". These matters often intersect with some of the great names in cue making, even Hall of Fame makers. Too often people are not interested in that aspect though and it is almost looked at with some disdain. I am talking about names like Janes, Stroud, Helmstetter, Rich, Scruggs, Huebler, McDermott, Meucci, Rambow, Hart, and others who were either directly involved in mass production efforts or peripherally involved in business development in practical ways, design work, advising, or otherwise.

Many of the cues that are seen as "high end" customs are really catalog cues anyway. I would point out such names as Gina. If it has a model number or is available in a catalog one could say it is not a "custom". Brands like Southwest, which are highly regarded as "customs" are essentially variations of the same cue. Select the wood, number of points/veneers etc within what they offer and you have your cue. So calling a cue "custom" isn't as straightforward as some would like. That does not diminish their value at all, while in other cases other makers cues are diminished in value by such things. It is more complex than many assume.

I think that just looking at collecting and asking what custom makers are the "best" to collect is a bit superficial. It may satisfy some people's interests, and that is fine for them. I also feel that a collection built on such a foundation isn't necessarily "better" than another with a broader scope. Not better at all, just different.

For me, my ideal collection would include examples representing eras and genres as well as levels of cues. It would represent the evolution of not just the individual cue makers but also the brands, both domestic and imported, and the industry in general.

I don't ask myself "what will this be worth" in dollars. I ask myself if I like it and what it represents to me in the context of my understanding of the maker, the level, the genre, and the industry.

Because of finances I have passed up many cues. I would note that the vast majority were not in fact "custom" cues from famous makers, though certainly some of them have been. I do not diminish the value of such cues in any way, I merely see the rest in perhaps a better light than many people that claim to collect. Certainly if I had the money there would be numerous "expensive" "custom" cues in my collection, but probably it would consist of more cues that could not be labeled as such simply because as a whole they outnumber the "customs" and getting a representative cross section of them would require more cues.


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Chopdoc said:
Collecting is collecting. Making money is another matter, that is dealing in cues...being a cue dealer. There is the matter of occasional buying and selling to work up to a higher valued cue, simply in order to afford it. That can be a component of collecting. Then again, dealing can be a way to support collecting.

Some dealers call themselves collectors when they are in fact primarily dealing. Some cue flippers call themselves collectors when they are in fact primarily flipping. I don't see flippers and dealers as being the same thing though the lines can be blurred just as they can be with collecting.

The way I see it collecting may or not involve considerations of monetary value. Collecting can be for the "joy" of ownership. It can also be as a matter of preserving for posterity some cues that one feels are of some representation of a genre or era. So there are matters of historic value as well as whatever personal value one invests in cues.

Personally I feel the "best" cues to collect are the ones a person would enjoy owning and can afford.

The joy for me is derived from getting involved with the rich history of cue making and the industry of cues in general. This includes imports and mass produced cues as well as the sort of "semi-customs". These matters often intersect with some of the great names in cue making, even Hall of Fame makers. Too often people are not interested in that aspect though and it is almost looked at with some disdain. I am talking about names like Janes, Stroud, Helmstetter, Rich, Scruggs, Huebler, McDermott, Meucci, Rambow, Hart, and others who were either directly involved in mass production efforts or peripherally involved in business development in practical ways, design work, advising, or otherwise.

Many of the cues that are seen as "high end" customs are really catalog cues anyway. I would point out such names as Gina. If it has a model number or is available in a catalog one could say it is not a "custom". Brands like Southwest, which are highly regarded as "customs" are essentially variations of the same cue. Select the wood, number of points/veneers etc within what they offer and you have your cue. So calling a cue "custom" isn't as straightforward as some would like. That does not diminish their value at all, while in other cases other makers cues are diminished in value by such things. It is more complex than many assume.

I think that just looking at collecting and asking what custom makers are the "best" to collect is a bit superficial. It may satisfy some people's interests, and that is fine for them. I also feel that a collection built on such a foundation isn't necessarily "better" than another with a broader scope. Not better at all, just different.

For me, my ideal collection would include examples representing eras and genres as well as levels of cues. It would represent the evolution of not just the individual cue makers but also the brands, both domestic and imported, and the industry in general.

I don't ask myself "what will this be worth" in dollars. I ask myself if I like it and what it represents to me in the context of my understanding of the maker, the level, the genre, and the industry.

Because of finances I have passed up many cues. I would note that the vast majority were not in fact "custom" cues from famous makers, though certainly some of them have been. I do not diminish the value of such cues in any way, I merely see the rest in perhaps a better light than many people that claim to collect. Certainly if I had the money there would be numerous "expensive" "custom" cues in my collection, but probably it would consist of more cues that could not be labeled as such simply because as a whole they outnumber the "customs" and getting a representative cross section of them would require more cues.


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that was a terrific treatise
very thought out and well written
tap tap
the thumbs up emoticon doesnt convey the seriousness of my praise for your post
 
bbb said:
that was a terrific treatise
very thought out and well written
tap tap
the thumbs up emoticon doesnt convey the seriousness of my praise for your post
Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind praise.

:)


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Really...chopdoc explained it so well, no need to comment...other than to say the same applies pretty much to anything man collects.

Cues, cars, stamps, coins, guns, etc. The list is long.
 
pwd72s said:
Really...chopdoc explained it so well, no need to comment...other than to say the same applies pretty much to anything man collects.

Cues, cars, stamps, coins, guns, etc. The list is long.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

But let's not pretend that the topic is not worthy of further discussion. I am sure many people have a lot to contribute and discuss on the matter of collecting cues. Some may have a completely different perspective than my own on the matter.



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Gee Ron, that has to be the most you've said on AZ in 7-years combined...:smile:

Collecting cues has so many different angles and ways that people collect, it is an interesting conversation.
The value and potential valve does have something to do with it, and I'm sure a lot of people collect for that reason.
I started collecting several different cues that I wanted to try or liked, and never sold any of them.
Then I bought or traded for multiple cues that I liked (or thought the deal was too good to pass up), never sold any of those, so now I'm a collector.
As far as values are concerned, some are worth less and some are worth more.
Other than a select few group of cuemakers, values are sometimes based on what is hot at the time, or what style of cue is hot at the time.
A good example is the ebony-ivory "Tuxedo" cues that was so hot 6 or 7 years ago.
There are many cues that are deemed collectible, just because they are old or made from a Titlist blank, but very few are valuable.


In that I now live close to Felt, and I'm driving, I'll bring an ebony nose South West in.
What do you want to trade...:indecisive:

Peace
Ted
 
cuesblues said:
Gee Ron, that has to be the most you've said on AZ in 7-years combined...:smile:

Collecting cues has so many different angles and ways that people collect, it is an interesting conversation.
The value and potential valve does have something to do with it, and I'm sure a lot of people collect for that reason.
I started collecting several different cues that I wanted to try or liked, and never sold any of them.
Then I bought or traded for multiple cues that I liked (or thought the deal was too good to pass up), never sold any of those, so now I'm a collector.
As far as values are concerned, some are worth less and some are worth more.
Other than a select few group of cuemakers, values are sometimes based on what is hot at the time, or what style of cue is hot at the time.
A good example is the ebony-ivory "Tuxedo" cues that was so hot 6 or 7 years ago.
There are many cues that are deemed collectible, just because they are old or made from a Titlist blank, but very few are valuable.


In that I now live close to Felt, and I'm driving, I'll bring an ebony nose South West in.
What do you want to trade...:indecisive:

Peace
Ted
Click to expand...


There are definitely trends in what's hot.

I poked my head into pool a little here and there over the years, really just false starts after leaving the game in the early nineties. Each time I poked my head in I got a sort of snap shot of what was going on.

The last time I poked my head into all this those tuxedo cues sure were hot. I personally got bit by the bug for them around 1990 or so when I visited Mottey's shop. I was awe-struck. At the time I was still playing and had just my JOSS player and a McDermott for breaking but I think that experience in his shop planted the first seeds for a "cue problem" that would develop all these years later.

I don't have any tuxedo cues, but would still love to have at least a couple of good examples of that type of cue from a couple of the Masters.

I think your story is probably common...the "accidental" collector. Buying a cue here and there and then just "neglecting" to sell them. That's pretty much what happened to me.


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I only like off the wall cues. Whether that is because of wood selection, or that cue maker only did one in that style, or because you don't see them very often, or because the construction is just amazing.

The other part of my preference is that I PREFER no computerized assistance or panto-graphs. I know that those don't matter to most, but it does to me. (not trying to get into a pissing contest, it's just my preference.) Minor mistakes create the essence of the cue for me. Chasing perfection BY HAND is very valuable in my eyes.

One thing is for sure, it has to be a little off the wall, for it to make the cut for me. I LOVE my cue. Keith is a good friend of mine, and most Keith's are pretty unique for one reason or another which is why he is my favorite builder. But I love seeing other peoples stuff that is out there.

Just my $.02,

Justin
 
jhanso18 said:
I only like off the wall cues.
Justin
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I like that statement. :grin:

I have a strange attraction for what I call "orphan" cues. Unwanted, unloved, unknown, or unidentified cues. Sometimes they turn out to be real gems. I identified a Doc Fry on Ebay for cheap that another AZBer snagged up...I would have gone after it but I was in a meeting at work when the auction ended.

Yup...I would say my real problem is with "orphan" cues. That's probably why I get involved in so many cue identification threads.



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doc that just made too much damn sense for me to fully comprehend what you said. guess i am getting too used to reading too much non-sensecal garbage on here.

well thoughtout and well written post.:grin-square:
 
I collect to sell - if I live to 60, I will travel to the DCC or Vega$ or somewhere the like, buy a booth and empty them out.

I collect cause they will go up in value and sometimes money in the bank doesn't seem to stay there with me - but a cue in a safe does.
 
Interesting topic. I'm thinking collectors who will not part with a cue are a good thing if you are buying cues to make money on, even if you consider yourself a collector and are only thinking about making money on a cue eventually. They are a significant part of the market for you. Secondly, they are keeping a lot of those "classic" investment grade cues off the market, making your offering that much more valuable.
 
watchez said:
I collect to sell - if I live to 60, I will travel to the DCC or Vega$ or somewhere the like, buy a booth and empty them out.

I collect cause they will go up in value and sometimes money in the bank doesn't seem to stay there with me - but a cue in a safe does.
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LOL!

Amazing how much easier we are parted with our money than a cue, eh?! :grin:




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DogsPlayingPool said:
Interesting topic. I'm thinking collectors who will not part with a cue are a good thing if you are buying cues to make money on, even if you consider yourself a collector and are only thinking about making money on a cue eventually. They are a significant part of the market for you. Secondly, they are keeping a lot of those "classic" investment grade cues off the market, making your offering that much more valuable.
Click to expand...


Makes me wonder how much the market is altered when a collection is liquidated. Obviously holding cues off the market can only help their value by making them more scarce, pure supply and demand economics.

When we see a few cues here and there from major collections they get a lot of attention. Just the fact that they were a part of such a collection gives them some additional status it seems. But what about when such a collection hits the market en masse?

We haven't seen that too often but it does happen occasionally.

Watching Ebay gives a sense of it though. In the lower end stuff especially like the old C and D series McDermotts, Meucci Originals, and cues like that. Sometimes they attract strong pricing but when several are available you can pick up some real relative bargains. I have seen sellers shoot themselves in the foot by putting numerous such examples on Ebay at one time, sometimes even one or two or three of the same model but usually several examples of a model line. They drive their own prices down. Do they realize they are doing that? Are they doing it to get some quick cash and knowingly take the hit? Or do they not realize they are affecting the market or their own sales? I am talking about people who seem to know cues, are collectors or dealers, not the ones who put an old cue up for auction not knowing what it is.



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jhanso18 said:
I only like off the wall cues. Whether that is because of wood selection, or that cue maker only did one in that style, or because you don't see them very often, or because the construction is just amazing.

The other part of my preference is that I PREFER no computerized assistance or panto-graphs. I know that those don't matter to most, but it does to me. (not trying to get into a pissing contest, it's just my preference.) Minor mistakes create the essence of the cue for me. Chasing perfection BY HAND is very valuable in my eyes.

One thing is for sure, it has to be a little off the wall, for it to make the cut for me. I LOVE my cue. Keith is a good friend of mine, and most Keith's are pretty unique for one reason or another which is why he is my favorite builder. But I love seeing other peoples stuff that is out there.

Just my $.02,

Justin
Click to expand...


I don't own a Keith cue but I've seen a few and played with a couple.
If my only cue was a Keith I would be quite happy with that.
 
Chopdoc said:
There are definitely trends in what's hot.

I poked my head into pool a little here and there over the years, really just false starts after leaving the game in the early nineties. Each time I poked my head in I got a sort of snap shot of what was going on.

The last time I poked my head into all this those tuxedo cues sure were hot. I personally got bit by the bug for them around 1990 or so when I visited Mottey's shop. I was awe-struck. At the time I was still playing and had just my JOSS player and a McDermott for breaking but I think that experience in his shop planted the first seeds for a "cue problem" that would develop all these years later.

I don't have any tuxedo cues, but would still love to have at least a couple of good examples of that type of cue from a couple of the Masters.

I think your story is probably common...the "accidental" collector. Buying a cue here and there and then just "neglecting" to sell them. That's pretty much what happened to me.


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Click to expand...


Doc, you see things way too clearly, and incidently the Joss cues like yours are very hot right now.
Now go out and get a ****ing J.O.B.
 
cuesblues said:
I don't own a Keith cue but I've seen a few and played with a couple.
If my only cue was a Keith I would be quite happy with that.
Click to expand...

I would agree, and it was for a little while.

He just completed a cue with 186 points in it, and it is insane!!! My next will be Keith Kustom with lots of purple heart. Should be a shooter!
 
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