Cue Components

zeeder said:
I see. As someone new to cues I've only seen a couple pictures of Spains but I've read Joel's website so I just assumed that Burton's cues were the nuts back in the day as well.

The reason why Spain is famous is because he built the best full splice blank of the era when Titlists had gone downhill. So when Balabushka started buying from him, and Paradise, as those cues escalated in popularity and value, so too did Spain's rep.

I have a couple of his cues. They are very nice, innovative, and attractive in a technical sense, etc., but like Skins said, not highly decorated.

Spain was a blank builder who also made cues, and fine ones at that. Joel Hercek is a master cue builder and master craftsman, who also makes blanks, and mightly fine ones at that.

By the way, I bet Joel throws away as many blanks as he uses. He's a perfectionist too and building blanks the way he does at the quality he seeks is far more difficult than machining in the points.

Chris
 
bogey54311 said:
some of the makers you have on your list as making their own, are wrong.

i'm not sure if i want to smoke these guys out on a public forum though.


chris G

CHEESE,

VERY WISE. I stopped peeing into the wind many years ago:D :D

The point is also, by and large, mute.
 
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Why I don't agree with this notion...

So, what is a cue maker?

Just because someone can build a great blank does not make them a good cue-maker. Far from it.

I asked a few old time pros why George Balabushka was so good. The answer surpised me: because he would listen to them. No matter how silly a request might seem, George listened and worked things out for them..

Pete Margo told me that he could tell George anything, like, my tip is a little too hard. George would work on it and give it back to him with a little softer tip. Or maybe, the shaft is not as lively as I would like, George would work on it and give it back to him with a lively shaft.

Somehow, Balabushka could interpret what the player was trying to describe, and build a cue for them, happily, no questions asked, and give them exactly what they wanted. His players simply adored him.

A cue maker is a salesman, psychologist, cue builder, businessman, machinist, counselor, and whatever else.

They don't buy blanks because they can't make them - that's not the issue. They buy blanks because they can buy blanks. Blanks are a big messy operation with lots of sawdust and toxic fumes. It's not profitable. It's repetitious. By buying the blanks, they can spend more time and focus their talents on the real job of customization and creative design, plus interaction with the customer and couseling all of us would like.

Balabushka could take a champion who can measure the width of a human hair on an objects ball's edge and hit it ten times in a row and build them a cue that was just perfect for them - just as great as they were.

Now that's a cue maker!

Chris
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Joey, He was asking about "big name cuemakers". I seriously doubt there are over 30 "big name" using Prathers blanks.
"Hundreds use full-splice blanks."? Big name makers?

I don't see a maker on Matts list that I think would even consider using a pre-made blank or forearm.

Newer cuemakers, yes! Happens all too often, but I've always wondered why they won't admit it.

Oh, forgot...they couldn't truthfully call themselves a "Cuemaker" could they!

Tell t

I suspect that you have a point with the following statement:

"Newer cue makers, yes! Happens all too often, but I've always wondered why they won't admit it.

Oh, forgot...they couldn't truthfully call themselves a "Cue maker" could they!"[/
QUOTE]

However, I would think that by most peoples standards today George Balabushka is considered a cue maker.

I would also add that making your own components can make you a Craftsman if your work warrants it, however the Assembly process used during cue building makes a cue hit good or bad, so in my opinion the techniques used during Assembly is really what makes someone a cue maker.

Manwon
 
TATE said:
So, what is a cue maker?

Just because someone can build a great blank does not make them a good cue-maker. Far from it.

I asked a few old time pros why George Balabushka was so good. The answer surpised me: because he would listen to them. No matter how silly a request might seem, George listened and worked things out for them..

Pete Margo told me that he could tell George anything, like, my tip is a little too hard. George would work on it and give it back to him with a little softer tip. Or maybe, the shaft is not as lively as I would like, George would work on it and give it back to him with a lively shaft.

Somehow, Balabushka could interpret what the player was trying to describe, and build a cue for them, happily, no questions asked, and give them exactly what they wanted. His players simply adored him.

A cue maker is a salesman, psychologist, cue builder, businessman, machinist, counselor, and whatever else.

They don't buy blanks because they can't make them - that's not the issue. They buy blanks because they can buy blanks. Blanks are a big messy operation with lots of sawdust and toxic fumes. It's not profitable. It's repetitious. By buying the blanks, they can spend more time and focus their talents on the real job of customization and creative design, plus interaction with the customer and couseling all of us would like.

Balabushka could take a champion who can measure the width of a human hair on an objects ball's edge and hit it ten times in a row and build them a cue that was just perfect for them - just as great as they were.

Now that's a cue maker!

Chris

Damn I start some good threads! Great post Chris. I agree 110%!
 
Dennis Searing... All his own.

Me personally I won't buy a new cue from a cuemaker that does not build his own forearm or entire cue less bumper, weight bolt etc. To me the forearm and joint are the heart and soul of a cue and must be made by the cuemaker.

Gus Szamboti is the absolute king of all cuemakers and Frank Paradise, Ernie Guiterrez, these are the cuemakers that have had the greatest affect on cuemaking, for quality,design,innovation etc.

There are a lot good cuemakers and this statemant does not diminish their quality or talents. It is just what I prefer from a cuemaker.
 
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TATE said:
The reason why Spain is famous is because he built the best full splice blank of the era when Titlists had gone downhill. So when Balabushka started buying from him, and Paradise, as those cues escalated in popularity and value, so too did Spain's rep.

I have a couple of his cues. They are very nice, innovative, and attractive in a technical sense, etc., but like Skins said, not highly decorated.

Spain was a blank builder who also made cues, and fine ones at that. Joel Hercek is a master cue builder and master craftsman, who also makes blanks, and mightly fine ones at that.

By the way, I bet Joel throws away as many blanks as he uses. He's a perfectionist too and building blanks the way he does at the quality he seeks is far more difficult than machining in the points.

Chris
Hmmmm...... I need to go through Mr. Hercek's trash can . . . . :p
 
Tascarella/Spain Cue?

If Spain supplied a lot of blanks to Balabuska, and Tascarella uses Balabuskas style and equipment. John Davis made a lot of those blanks for Spain. If Tascarella made a cue using a blank from Davis. Would it be similar to Balabuska making a cue from a Spain blank?? Would it hurt the value of the Tascarella?
 
HIRUN526 said:
Gus Szamboti is the absolute king of all cuemakers and Frank Paradise, Ernie Guiterrez, these are the cuemakers that have had the greatest affect on cuemaking, for quality,design,innovation etc..
Did Frank Paradise make his own blanks?

Fred
 
wizardnblue said:
If Spain supplied a lot of blanks to Balabuska, and Tascarella uses Balabuskas style and equipment. John Davis made a lot of those blanks for Spain. If Tascarella made a cue using a blank from Davis. Would it be similar to Balabuska making a cue from a Spain blank?? Would it hurt the value of the Tascarella?

Only if the tree grew on the east side of the hill facing north and received an hour and fifteen minutes of sun light half the year because a bigger tree was growing faster and shaded the smaller tree from which the wood was actually harvested?


Sorry Wiz.......just had to throw that in there!
To much caffiene will do that some times.
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Actually, I thought I was pretty clear in stating my opinion. Answer this though, If those that are making cues from others blanks are not proud of the fact, why is it that they don't advertise as such?


First, I hold GB in very high regard, as well as the other cue craftsmen of
that era. Our society needs Heroes and he happens to be one of them. Therefor, I prefer not to compare his career to the definitions of today.

That said:
Many moons ago my Psych Professor challenged my use of the term
"most people", stating that I surely didn't know "most" of the people in the group I was referring to.

Unless a person happens to know most of the people that have given thought to the subject, how can one person accurately say "most" people would think that same way. I believe if an accurate survey could be taken from those that are active in the business of making cues, the results
just might surprise you. Keyword here is "accurate", meaning honest opinions were given, and no punches pulled for the heroes of our world. I fully realize this may not be a popular opinion to express in the pool industry, nevertheless, it's my opinion.


Surely you're not suggesting the actual construction of a cue (the forearm) contributes less to the hit of a cue, than does the assembly. Where does assembly begin? I say it begins with the first cut made in making the forearm. Assembly techniques make a person a cue maker? Interesting thought, but I don't buy into it.

I know you dabble some in working on cues, but obviously the trade is not as near & dear to you as it is to me.

Thanks for you opinion and your input to my thoughts. However, I have been involved directly or indirectly with this subject and business for many years.

I have been blessed to be able to play with many different types of custom cues and I also do conversions, refinishing, and most any type of repair necessary to correct problems from abuse, manufacturing, or age.

I think that I have a good working knowledge where cue construction techniques are concerned, I will say however, that I am self taught and I still learn new things every day.

Enough said, getting back to cue construction. I have owned or played with cues from many of the famous cue makers I have learned that the assembly process in most cases is a cue makers best keep secret concerning the balance and hit that a cue produces.

How a cue looks is secondary to me, when a cue maker incorporates construction and assembly techniques that make their cues consistently balanced and have that certain sweet hit, this cue maker is on the road to success.

The hit of a cue is greatly influenced by construction. The joining of the forearm and the cues butt to the under wrap is the single most important part of a cues construction. You can make the best / most perfect components possible with our current technology and put them together and have log.

The secrets to balance, transmission of hit, and a solid feel / sound are greatly due to the construction process involved in joining the forearm, under wrap and butt. Most cue makers today have their own techniques, for balance, avoiding buzz at junctions where materials are joined, for making their cues have a special type hit, these are trade secrets.

While the shaft, tip and ferrule also are important their main purpose is to transmit hit to the butt and effect the action/control imparted to the cue ball and object balls.

In closing like I would like to say, do not over look the importance of the Assembly process or the fact that many of the greatest cue makers ever known are self taught and started making conversions from purchased or on hand components. Whether some one uses their own components or purchased components the cues they produce and the cue makers reputation will ultimately be based on how their cues play.

Have a nice day!!

Manwon
 
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ScottR said:
Hmmmm...... I need to go through Mr. Hercek's trash can . . . . :p

LOL!! i just pictured a bunch of amateur cuemakers digging through the dumpster for forearms :p :p
 
PunchOut said:
LOL!! i just pictured a bunch of amateur cuemakers digging through the dumpster for forearms :p :p

if joel does anything like joe gold from congnoscenti does, they wouldn't do you any good. i've seen joe take complete cues that would have sold for many thousands to his band saw and cut em' up in pieces because they didn't meet his standards. back then i wanted to stop him and say "let me have it it's fine to me". he explained why he was doing this and i understood, that's just what a perfectionist does.
 
skins said:
if joel does anything like joe gold from congnoscenti does, they wouldn't do you any good. i've seen joe take complete cues that would have sold for many thousands to his band saw and cut em' up in pieces because they didn't meet his standards. back then i wanted to stop him and say "let me have it it's fine to me". he explained why he was doing this and i understood, that's just what a perfectionist does.

Getting a little off the subject, do you also do designs for Joe Gold?

Chris
 
Info for your post

ScottR said:
Just to address two people you mention . . .

I'm pretty sure Pete Tascarella makes his own blanks using equipment that he bought from Mr. Balabushka's estate; leading me to believe that George made some of his own.
I am pretty sure George Balabushka never made his own blanks! Go figure.
Nick :)
 
i do have a point of view on this subject...........

all you guys are throwing out names like spain, bushka, davis, paradise, martin, rambow, etc.

you have to remember, back then, there were only a handful of custom makers.

WE ARE VERY SPOILED NOW THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS.


there's no reason not to make your own.

more info shared, better equipment, better materials, etc.

that's why give MUCH more credit to makers who make their own blanks.

(i'm not knocking prather. they are an outstanding company that makes monster parts.)


chris G <-----------not a fan of CNC work either
 
TATE said:
Getting a little off the subject, do you also do designs for Joe Gold?

Chris

lets just say allot of his work is inspired by ideas of mine that he tweaks and puts his phenomenal touch to.
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
You're preaching to the choir manwon. Some of what you say I agree with, some of it I don't. But that's simply a difference of opinion which, hopefully, keeps our minds healthy and active.

The original subject (cuemakers working with others blanks), then the point you & I touched on (defining "cuemaker") had to do with the maker constructing his own blanks (or not).

In my opinion, and I believe this opinion is shared by no less than several veteran cuemakers, if a person does not have the knowledge necessary to construct a (quality) pool cue from raw and/or basic materials, and they are referring to themselves as a cuemaker, then they are incorrectly stating the title of their trade.

I believe the real test would be to provide the person with all the necessary materials, with all the woods in turning square form to include the shaft wood, and ask them to make a quality pool cue. Shall we say 4-8.5" grooved points for simplicity, with a few mitered veneeers? Naturally, making all the necessary machinery available also. Just for grins, let's throw in a stainless steel threaded joint collar and some simple decorative rings. Let's do the forearm and butt using Gabon Ebony, and a simple linen wrap. Inlays? No, let's not do any. Don't want to overburden this person too early. Now, we want this cue to finish out at 18.25 ounces, we want a 13mm shaft with a 10" pro taper and a cue length of 59". These are all fairly common requests
by the way.

Let's not use names here, that's not the intent of this conversation, but think of those "cuemakers" that you know, or feel, are using pre-made blanks. Of those persons, how many do you believe could pull off this simple job without jumping on the phone and ordering a pre-made blank or forearm?

Let me be clear on this point, I am not opposed to a person using pre-made blanks, either occasionally or full time. Sometimes it's the sensible and most expedient method of getting the job done.

What I do oppose is, a person entitling themself a maker of cues when in fact they do not know how to get the job done (correctly). Whether or not they care, or are diligent enough is a different matter, here I'm talking about knowledge.

You may have already visited the sites, but there is also good information available at the ACA & ICA web sites as to "Requirements".

Thanks for the information, I suspect that I miss understood your intent, in the first post I replyed to. I do agree with your idea's as exspressed here.

Have a nice Day!!!

Manwon
 
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skins said:
lets just say allot of his work is inspired by ideas of mine that he tweaks and puts his phenomenal touch to.

I would be certainly be interested in learning more of this design process in another thread.

Chris
 
bogey54311 said:
i do have a point of view on this subject...........

<<snip>>

chris G <-----------not a fan of CNC work either
Just curious, Chris. Do you mean CNC cut points or any CNC work??
 
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