Cue ID help please.

P

poolgod1

Banned
This is an early cue built by a master cuemaker to be sure. Has older components including black speck Cortland wrap. It is unmarked.

It has the look of a Joss cue, but I believe it to be a early Tim Scurggs. Scruggs cues were not marketd in 1978 and 1979 when he first left Joss. Early Scruggs cues looked like Joss cues to a degree. The earliest Scruggs cues had maple dash collars like this cue does that are on the outer part of the collar. The joint pin and brass inserts in the shafts are consistent with several other early Scruggs I have found.

I pulled the bumper and it is a silver metal weight bolt with central thread for bumper allen bolt and flathead screw head to remove it. The buttcap is Derlin. The white dots are ivory.

Cue is in 98% condition, a real closet queen, unplayed for 20 years. The points on it are razor sharp, not an import or rookie cuemaker so I think we only have Joss, JW, Richard Black and Scruggs to consider. Of those the only one to use this type of joint collars was Scruggs. Later McDaniel who worked with Scruggs and in his early years he made them the exact same way. Joss and JW collars would be centered in the black phenolic with longer rectangular blocks.

All 3 shafts dead straight with ivory ferrules. A few tiny finish dings in butt sleeve, the wrap and forearm are flawless. The work is just perfect.
 

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Ebay steal for under a grand. It plays like old skool cool. But 1.29" heavy, probably 16 ounce butt, haven't weighed it yet.
 
Unmarked

I was also looking hard at this cue.. If it had a maker mark it would be here with me but I have been down this road before.. Even if you are absolutely certain who the maker is, without his mark there are only a few guys that will want it for their collection.. I am sure it is a great player though..Enjoy..
 
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cue logo

I understand all that. I had a JW catalog cue unmarked. I sold it but only after many people questioned it. Do they think anybody could fake this? Wouldn't they fake the TS JW or Joss? To me it makes them more interesting. Made at a time when pool was booming and you had just a few top cue makers. People wanted players and guys could spot a great cue from across the room. The skepticism today is funny. I got this beauty for 909...worth that.

I'm gonna ask my cuemaker friend to speak to Mr. Scruggs. He also knows Dan Janes. Will try to direct Mr Stroud to this listing. I see he posts here.
 
I would need to see alot more than you are showing. Pin. Pilots. Top to bottom and si

Could be a lot of things. I would have to Zaminate it.
Nick :)
 
Ever see Phillips joint rings like that?
Ever see an unsigned Phillipi?
Most people so far say Scruggs. I've seen many cues of his with the same designs. The rings are exact, the stacked rings, the ivory dot pattern. His cues were unsigned for first few years. All Phillipi cues were signed on forearm. Show me a photo of an unsigned one if you have one.
My cuemaker friend will contact TS himself for me. I'd bet 10 to 1 it's his....window is just about wide open.
 
My money is on Scruggs or Phillippi as well. I've had both and yours absolutely has the TS look, but Rick is and was very good at copying / miming other maker's styles, including and especially Tim's. I have seen a few of his cues that have had those rings and his point and veneer work is as clean as anyones, even Tim or Mike. As for the signature, it could have been removed during a refinish just as easily as Tim's logo, so who knows. You'd have to bring it to Tim or Rick to know for sure. It could even be someone other than those two..

Just my .02 :)
 
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poolgod1 said:
Ever see Phillips joint rings like that?
Ever see an unsigned Phillipi?
Most people so far say Scruggs. I've seen many cues of his with the same designs. The rings are exact, the stacked rings, the ivory dot pattern. His cues were unsigned for first few years. All Phillipi cues were signed on forearm. Show me a photo of an unsigned one if you have one.
My cuemaker friend will contact TS himself for me. I'd bet 10 to 1 it's his....window is just about wide open.
Click to expand...

Here's one...an old Phillippi with those rings. The signature is easily removed with a refinish.

I agree yours is most likely a Scruggs though. I would say I'm about 80% sure.

But there were a lot of people that know a lot about cues that saw that auction and passed on it for more than $900. The market isn't currently what you think it is.
 

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cuesblues said:
Richard Black?




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I found that very cue in a search. Black did a six windows cue . I saw many of them and that one with inlays is a variant. He never did dash back rings like my cue though. Silver nickel and maple with dashes, the number of dashes changed over the early years. His cues are most similiar. Scruggs only built them like this a year or two. Then he started on his own designs like the stacked railroad track rings that really define him.

Someone proves it's Phillipi it's there's for 750 plus shipping!
 
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cueaddicts said:
Here's one...an old Phillippi with those rings. The signature is easily removed with a refinish.

I agree yours is most likely a Scruggs though. I would say I'm about 80% sure.

But there were a lot of people that know a lot about cues that saw that auction and passed on it for more than $900. The market isn't currently what you think it is.
Click to expand...
Good find. That cue is much more recent than this one. Components on this one say that much.

If this cue isn't worth 900 then you guys all better burn your cues tonight for heat. Hitting balls with it now..it's a beauty.

cue was never refinished. Finish is old. Worn slightly in shaft collars like the do. If it's a Scruggs it's 2200. Chris TS sneaky petes of his made by Frey with Dufferin blanks sell for 650. This thing is a 35 year old time capsule. 3 vintage ivory ferrule shafts. What you guys smoking tonight??
 
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poolgod1 said:
Ever see Phillips joint rings like that?
Ever see an unsigned Phillipi?
Most people so far say Scruggs. I've seen many cues of his with the same designs. The rings are exact, the stacked rings, the ivory dot pattern. His cues were unsigned for first few years. All Phillipi cues were signed on forearm. Show me a photo of an unsigned one if you have one.
My cuemaker friend will contact TS himself for me. I'd bet 10 to 1 it's his....window is just about wide open.
Click to expand...

I'm in for a dollar, auto confirm
 
Why not just play me a set for 500 even up? I can be at your local pool hall in hours. You can check out the cue for yourself.

I'm gonna get authentication from the 2 potential makers. .. if you count Phillipi or Black make it 4. The only real possibilities in my mind are Scruggs or Scruggs when he was at Joss.
 
With two large sugar marks. Its a nice cue, but they hurt the value, like it or not. I bet most cuemakers would have considered tossing that forearm. However its still a deal at 900 and you should enjoy it.

But around here the saying is put it on ebay and see what it is really worth. I think we all just saw. If Tim writes a letter for it you'll get a little more out of it.

NO one is hating on you or your cue, but at this point it is still an unknown, and only a letter from Tim at this point will enhance the value.

JV

poolgod1 said:
Good find. That cue is much more recent than this one. Components on this one say that much.

If this cue isn't worth 900 then you guys all better burn your cues tonight for heat. Hitting balls with it now..it's a beauty.

cue was never refinished. Finish is old. Worn slightly in shaft collars like the do. If it's a Scruggs it's 2200. Chris TS sneaky petes of his made by Frey with Dufferin blanks sell for 650. This thing is a 35 year old time capsule. 3 vintage ivory ferrule shafts. What you guys smoking tonight??
Click to expand...
 
classiccues said:
With two large sugar marks. Its a nice cue, but they hurt the value, like it or not. I bet most cuemakers would have considered tossing that forearm. However its still a deal at 900 and you should enjoy it.

But around here the saying is put it on ebay and see what it is really worth. I think we all just saw. If Tim writes a letter for it you'll get a little more out of it.

NO one is hating on you or your cue, but at this point it is still an unknown, and only a letter from Tim at this point will enhance the value.

JV
Click to expand...

900 even if I made it in my basement with a chainsaw last week. Some of you experts really Crack me up. You know dam well you aren't asking 900 for it. Like all you guys passed on it.....sure.
 
poolgod1 said:
900 even if I made it in my basement with a chainsaw last week. Some of you experts really Crack me up. You know dam well you aren't asking 900 for it. Like all you guys passed on it.....sure.
Click to expand...

So, you think you are the only one that watches Ebay for cues like this? I was your underbidder on the cue and I can almost guarantee you that there were another 20 guys on this forum that also passed on the cue and who knows how many more that are not.. Like was just said, no one is dissing your new cue.. I think most of us know what a $2200 cue looks like with or without a signature.. Ebay is the most pure venue for determining value IMO and your cue just ran the gauntlet.. Enjoy it my friend..
 
I think its a early Scruggs. Like Nick said, pics of the pin and pilot and under bumper may help confirm this. Regardless it is a very nice looking cue. Enjoy....
 
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