Some of my favorite pantograph and milled inlayed cues .
Judd and Trudy sure made them pretty .
FWIW, the cue in the middle was one of my favorites of all time.
TW
Cue inlay design
- Thread starter poolrod
- Start date
FWIW, the cue in the middle was one of my favorites of all time.
TW
So now I can understand why you keep arguing with me even when I agree with everything you say. Interesting. Use my simple playing cue as an example of what not to do and holding it up against Black's masterpiece did have a hidden agenda as many people have tried to point out to me. I guess they were right in hindsight.
I believe if you go back to the root cause of your so called feelings being hurt you will find that anything I may have fired across your bow was a direct result of some insulting drivel that you expounded with me in your crosshairs. I don't like to hold grudges but apparently you are a different breed.
Accusing me of Cue Design theft when I produce a ring billet that was a design element that is a flourish adorning round or column forms going back to the pre French Revolution times. When I brought up your 100% Southwest copy cat cues you made in the 90s as an "in your face rebuttal" it was a non issue because you got permission from Jerry Franklin to copy his cues. Pleeeese! It did not bother me in the least then nor would it bother me now. None of my business. If a customer want you to build a cue with peacocks in the points for example that's what I would do as well. Sorry I could not get permission from people who died over 200 years ago and you got off attacking a rookie CM. For no good reason either. That is you way.
Confucius Say: "Things that are done, it is needless to speak about...things that are past, it is needless to blame". These are words maybe both you and I both should consider.
The point here is you went out of your way to put down someone who was absolutely no threat to your position or business. What is that all about. My rebuttals were only a defensive position showing your impulsivity. I am sure you will disagree and find some trivial example somewhere that makes you look like your a saint. Go ahead, most people know that if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck it is a duck.
Even though I honestly really love your cues, I still reserve the right to enjoy Joe B's satirical image of your face on the back side of a donkey. A perfect fit in effigy. Come on, Even you must get a little chuckle out of it!
JMO,
Rick
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There's no "hidden agenda". I've been very open from my initial post with my opinion that your "Scimitar Cue" is a GREAT example of what not to do. It shows utter lack of creativity, and that's something I would love to see ALL budding cuemakers avoid, even if you can't.
If it had veneered points, perhaps with some small inlay in the base of each point reminiscent of the main inlays in the buttsleeve, then it would probably be reasonably tasteful. Nothing wrong with that - lots of fine cue designs dating back many decades, up through the present, have such a treatment and look great.
But when you take the forearm and slap in a bunch of the same (or very similar) buttsleeve inlays, spaced in an array that is at the same time symmetrical and yet oddly spaced, you abandon any hope of beauty. Instead, it just looks like you are simply incapable of coming up with any well-thought-out solution to connect the two different shaped canvases - which is exactly what happened there.
Forget Richard Black's Visitation; I could have put up a McWorter, Chudy, or any number of other cuemaker's work - in your exact same price range - and they would stand head and shoulders above your cue. They would be so much better for one very simple reason: they know what they're doing and you don't.
The funny part is 'poolrod', and a number of cuemakers who PM'd me all seem grateful for the free lesson. Of course I knew you wouldn't get it, making the effort all that much more worth it. Some people get it, some people don't. You don't, and I'm good with that.
TW
Well,
Most know I'm new, practicing on butt sleeves and billets. Have miles and miles to travel.
I do have to say that this back and forth is a good thing. It opens up your eyes, there is as many ways and styles as there are cue makers. Seeing over the fence and into the woods can be a good thing.
I don't have a clue as to where I will be at in 10 years, but these conversations will make me want to push to my abilities to there limits.
Thank you for the input on both sides of the fence, it does make you open your eyes. I believe we all can use a little push here and there. One more reason I love this site.
Steve
PS, added after the fact.
I have had one fellow help me, have to say he pushes my brain all the time.
I can't thank him enough.
Thank you Sir.
Most know I'm new, practicing on butt sleeves and billets. Have miles and miles to travel.
I do have to say that this back and forth is a good thing. It opens up your eyes, there is as many ways and styles as there are cue makers. Seeing over the fence and into the woods can be a good thing.
I don't have a clue as to where I will be at in 10 years, but these conversations will make me want to push to my abilities to there limits.
Thank you for the input on both sides of the fence, it does make you open your eyes. I believe we all can use a little push here and there. One more reason I love this site.
Steve
PS, added after the fact.
I have had one fellow help me, have to say he pushes my brain all the time.
I can't thank him enough.
Thank you Sir.
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Some things never change.
:boring: :deadhorse: :banghead:
:boring: :deadhorse: :banghead:
I did get it right away and also when I designed the forearm on the fly when it was mounted on the machine.
Here is my first reaction to you comments. Maybe you don't believe me but it was absolutely sincere.
We all get what you were saying.
Rick
in todays world
i do not like any of your designs, but i commend you for the effort. i prefer simpler designs.
today any 16 year old geek can get on a computer and come up with a zillion designs.
now, lets get into the real world, get a piece of wood, a lathe and try to build a cue with any of those designs.
i do not like any of your designs, but i commend you for the effort. i prefer simpler designs.
today any 16 year old geek can get on a computer and come up with a zillion designs.
now, lets get into the real world, get a piece of wood, a lathe and try to build a cue with any of those designs.
Having the skills to build your vision is a important part of the process but It all starts with the design. Every great piece of Art starts with the creative thought and vision. It is like in Pool you cant execute a great shot without first seeing the shot in your head. Knowing the line of your shot involves both creativity and knowledge of how the cue ball will react and lastly be able to pull it off. Great cuemaking I believe is very similar. You need the creative thought and the knowledge to know what you can do relative to your technology. And lastly the skills to be able to execute as you visioned.
Art and Craft
What I would like to know is: what is the balance between art and craft in high-end artistic cues?
I know there are many factors involved in this question: cost of materials, cost of the cue, cue maker reputation, artistic design time, CAD/CAM time etc...
But I want to try to cut through all of that to define the following:
If a cue is a collaboration where one person supplies the art and one builds the cue, what is the split between art and craft once materials have been subtracted?
50% art, 50% craft? 10% art, 90% craft? 90% art, 10% craft?
What I would like to know is: what is the balance between art and craft in high-end artistic cues?
I know there are many factors involved in this question: cost of materials, cost of the cue, cue maker reputation, artistic design time, CAD/CAM time etc...
But I want to try to cut through all of that to define the following:
If a cue is a collaboration where one person supplies the art and one builds the cue, what is the split between art and craft once materials have been subtracted?
50% art, 50% craft? 10% art, 90% craft? 90% art, 10% craft?
How about craftsmanship and artistry are independent and both can be 100%? (For that matter, both can be 0% as well.)
This is such a subjective question that any "answer" can only be considered an opinion. That said, my opinion - and I know why you are asking - is that the raw design itself is an extremely small part of the finished piece. I don't think it even amounts to the minimum you've allowed, which is 10%. I might put it at closer to 1%... if that.
Now, knowing how to execute that design - from choosing materials and techniques to developing an "inlay strategy" (a concept I developed and have taught to a number cuemakers) to building the cue itself to inlaying the artwork to finishing the cue... that is the other 99+% of the puzzle.
Almost any hack can draw a pretty picture. Turning the pretty picture into a physical manifestation that is a museum-quality pool cue is the real art. I suppose technically it would fall into the "craft" category - although for the masters of that craft it may not be too big a stretch to call it the "magic".
TW
I found this conversation very interesting to say the least. There were great points on both sides. I don't care for the arguing, but that will happens when people are heavily invested in something and have a huge amount of passion for their craft. I appreciate Jake's input. It was constructive and useful. I see the trend in cuemaking where the same patterns are repeated over and over. It can be done to great affect, but often, it looks really quite awful.
I am a cue admirer, but no expert in art cues or inlay technique. I certainly don't have any sort of budget to collect high end art cues either, but I enjoy researching these things and reading about cues. I respect and admire many of the high end makers who contribute here. All I can say is that the thing that keeps me interested is when I see a cue, and I have no idea how they came up with that design or execution, it makes me want to look at it again and again... and again.
I am a cue admirer, but no expert in art cues or inlay technique. I certainly don't have any sort of budget to collect high end art cues either, but I enjoy researching these things and reading about cues. I respect and admire many of the high end makers who contribute here. All I can say is that the thing that keeps me interested is when I see a cue, and I have no idea how they came up with that design or execution, it makes me want to look at it again and again... and again.