Cue Lift Technique … Is It Legal?

Seen Dechaine lay his cue on the rail and go to other side of the table and lift the cue to make a hit. Got away with it because nobody knew it was a foul.

Cue must be struck in a stroking motion.
 
SEB said:
It should be legal. A cue tip is hitting a cueball without a double hit.

Conceptually…no foul!
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Wouldn't that open up disagreements when players use the end of the cue to move the cue ball with BIH?? The rule in that situation is it is not considered a legal stroke when moving cue ball with cue because a forward stoke MUST be used for it to be considered a legal shot. Seems to me it would be opening an entire can of worms. Just learn how to make that shot the correct way, with a forward stroke of the cue, not a lift of the cue.
 
I've always thought of this being a legal hit or how it was explained to me. I've never had to do this or ever seen it done or needed to do this in 20+ years.

After seeing the video. I would think that it could be a legal hit if you start with the cue stick above the center line of the ball. Under the ball i could see a possible double hit situation. Above the center i could just see it as a light follow shot.
 
SEB said:
dr_dave said:
There are many types of fouls besides double hits. See the video again, and see:

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Ive watched it. A few times. Great resource.

But you’re not the decider of everything pool. The collective mind of everyone that plays the game well is.

In my opinion it should be legal.
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This info presented on the resource page is not "my info" or "my opinion." Instead, the resources are just summarizing and demonstrating the WPA official rules of pool. Now, people can collectively agree to request changes in the official rules, but opinion has no place concerning how the current rules are applied. The rules are the rules ... period (until we changed them).
 
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dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that looks at the controversial cue-lift technique useful for avoiding double hits and for playing finesse safeties. I explain why these shots are illegal under the official rules of pool:


As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
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For those interested, the following video demonstrates 10 legal ways to avoid small-gap double-hit foul:

 
dr_dave said:
I have a bunch of shot ideas already, but do you guys know of other shots allowed in the APA that are illegal under WPA rules?

Thanks!
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I was told by my APA LO that the lift shot is legal, as well. He wasn't thrilled to have to say it, I could tell, but that's the way it is.

The only other APA centric goofy shot that I can think of right now is that if two balls are actually married to one another, you can hit right through them. At least I believe I've heard that being allowed. Most of the people that play in our league generally try and adhere to the 45 degree angle thing, what APA uses as a general guideline to eliminate double-hit arguments. If you jack up some and/or shoot at a 45 degree angle, we don't call a double hit. I don't know if that's completely official, but thats how I've understood it, and have seen it played out all this time that I've played in the league.
 
justadub said:
I was told by my APA LO that the lift shot is legal, as well. He wasn't thrilled to have to say it, I could tell, but that's the way it is.
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This is not clear in the official APA rules online, but the shot does seem to be allowed in APA.


justadub said:
The only other APA centric goofy shot that I can think of right now is that if two balls are actually married to one another, you can hit right through them.
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I'm glad to hear it, because that is allowed under the WPA official rules of pool since it does not involve a push or double hit per the info and demonstrations here:



justadub said:
Most of the people that play in our league generally try and adhere to the 45 degree angle thing, what APA uses as a general guideline to eliminate double-hit arguments. If you jack up some and/or shoot at a 45 degree angle, we don't call a double hit. I don't know if that's completely official, but thats how I've understood it, and have seen it played out all this time that I've played in the league.
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This rule is not in any current rule-set that I am aware of (APA included). It is still in VNEA, but they are voting to remove it later this month. Per my video on this topic, the old 45 degree rule is a relic from the past that makes no sense whatsoever:

 
the old rules worked in practice and not arguments occurred. as soon as they put the double hit rule in instead of the 45 angle the arguments started.
why have the forward stroke rule. if the tip hits the cueball it is a shot. if not foul after the hit all is good. silly to argue whether his stick went just up or forward and up. what are you going to do when he said it went forward.
 
dr_dave said:
This is not clear in the official APA rules online, but the shot does seem to be allowed in APA.




I'm glad to hear it, because that is allowed under the WPA official rules of pool since it does not involve a push or double hit per the info and demonstrations here:





This rule is not in any current rule-set that I am aware of (APA included). It is still in VNEA, but they are voting to remove it later this month. Per my video on this topic, the old 45 degree rule is a relic from the past that makes no sense whatsoever:

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I thought the rules were the rules…
 
SEB said:
I thought the rules were the rules…
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Many 14.1 players (in the distant past) would take an intentional foul by merely touching the tip to the CB (dragging it over the cloth). When I became aware of the official rules, I discovered that accomplishing a legal ‘forward stroke’ without overly disturbing the layout (staying ‘safe’) required a rather more delicate effort.
 
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