CUE OF THE YEAR OLD SCHOOL STYLE, NO CNC by hand only

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]

In addition, to say that cue makers who do not have or use such equipment are the parallel of the Special Olympics participants is beyond reprehensible. My son is Autistic and retarded, I find the analogy repugnant to say the least.
[...]

I did not draw such a parallel; that is purely your own inference. My actual point was that even if I DID limit my tool selection and techniques to a simpler level, I don't think I would advertise that as if it somehow made my work "special" - I believe the end result should stand on its own.

Perhaps my reference ("Special Olympics") was poorly chosen, but it was parenthetic and I did NOT use it as an "analogy". To call it "reprehensible" and/or "repugnant" is, in my opinion, an overreaction. Nevertheless, since you did choose to take it personally, I apologize for that blunder.

On a related note, I devoted many years to volunteer work for our local disabled sports group affiliated with National Handicapped Sports, donating time, personal labor, and boats & related equipment - every summer up until about 12 years ago. Even when I first began that effort I do not ever recall the word "retarded" being acceptable - and to this day I find it offensive (personally) when I see it used in public forums. From the very beginning we were trained (and volunteers still are to this day) to qualify certain participants using the term "developmentally disabled" - further quantified by the specific level of disability.

TW

 

[manwon]

Let's see those great cues that are old school style that never get old...



Show what you have,

Thanks,

John

Here is a cue I made for myself, and I think it turned out pretty well. The cue was made from a turn of the century Butterfly Spliced cue, with twin wedges in the cues butt one is Ivory and the other is Rosewood both also have veneers. To build this was a small challenge because the butt was only 54 inches long. So I had to cut it in half and add the handle section to make the cue 59 inches long. It was a little difficult to match the handle wood to the wood used in the forearm, so I used an old Brunswick one piece made from a similar wood so I used it for the handle.

Here are the photo's:











Thanks for looking

 

[Chopdoc]

I did not draw such a parallel; that is purely your own inference. My actual point was that even if I DID limit my tool selection and techniques to a simpler level, I don't think I would advertise that as if it somehow made my work "special" - I believe the end result should stand on its own.

Perhaps my reference ("Special Olympics") was poorly chosen, but it was parenthetic and I did NOT use it as an "analogy". To call it "reprehensible" and/or "repugnant" is, in my opinion, an overreaction. Nevertheless, since you did choose to take it personally, I apologize for that blunder.

On a related note, I devoted many years to volunteer work for our local disabled sports group affiliated with National Handicapped Sports, donating time, personal labor, and boats & related equipment - every summer up until about 12 years ago. Even when I first began that effort I do not ever recall the word "retarded" being acceptable - and to this day I find it offensive (personally) when I see it used in public forums. From the very beginning we were trained (and volunteers still are to this day) to qualify certain participants using the term "developmentally disabled" - further quantified by the specific level of disability.

TW

Well, now you here it from a highly qualified expert, my son, and the parent of a child with such a disability, me.....and a physician, me....who actually teaches this formally at the graduate and postgraduate levels. My son will tell you himself that he is retarded. Tell him he's wrong. The complete term is mentally retarded. Look it up if you need to.

I don't volunteer, I live with it night and day. Don't much care for being told any such things by "trained" volunteers. I'd say my formal training trumps yours by decades anyway, and then on top of that I am raising such a disabled child.

I won't tell you how to make pool cues, you don't tell me anything about your "training" in health care. :wink:

Now lets see some of those non-CNC cues. I like those butterflies. I would say a conversion definitely counts. Especially one made from an antique cue (before CNC).

 

[manwon]

Well, now you here it from a highly qualified expert, my son, and the parent of a child with such a disability, me.....and a physician, me....who actually teaches this formally at the graduate and postgraduate levels. My son will tell you himself that he is retarded. Tell him he's wrong. The complete term is mentally retarded. Look it up if you need to.

I don't volunteer, I live with it night and day. Don't much care for being told any such things by "trained" volunteers. I'd say my formal training trumps yours by decades anyway, and then on top of that I am raising such a disabled child.

I won't tell you how to make pool cues, you don't tell me anything about your "training" in health care. :wink:

Now lets see some of those non-CNC cues. I like those butterflies. I would say a conversion definitely counts. Especially one made from an antique cue (before CNC).

I totally understand your feeling about people with disabilities, me and my wife have also raised a disabled child who happens to be our daughter. She was born completely normal and at the age of 28 months she Encephalitis which caused massive brain damage. She has been taken care of at home for the last 30 years and I would not have it any other way.

Here is my little Girl:

 

[cuesblues]

Here is an 6-pt EM cue from the 90's, no CNC.
Ernie Martinez even made the 3/8-12 pin and the octagon rubber bumper.
Ivory joint & butt cap, Merry Christmas veneer colors

 

[bnall]

Scruggs by Barnhart. Old School all the way!!

 

[paulybatz]

Wow....

I havnt seen one of those ever with the pin like that....THANKS FOR SHARING!

Here is an 6-pt EM cue from the 90's, no CNC.
Ernie Martinez even made the 3/8-12 pin and the octagon rubber bumper.
Ivory joint & butt cap, Merry Christmas veneer colors

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Here is a cue that I built without CNC and was hand painted and air brushed by my good friend and artist.


"The Armageddon Cue" was built at the Esoteric Cue Shop by Rick Geschrey and the 3D Artwork was performed by Artist Ken Simonsen in 2011.

It features imagery of the perfectly aligned stonework windows with asymmetrical joints associated with Mexico’s Chichen Itza Pyramid architecture and is replete with Mayan glyphs and other tongue-in-cheek symbols heralding "the end of the world" on the winter solstice 2012. The art medium is airbrush fine-tuned with a sable hair liner brush (and steady hand).

The entire cue is fully cored and built on a 29" dowel with an Ebony forearm and butt with 30 sterling silver stitch rings in 5 positions. Ken's art imagery was rendered within the simple, 3 point, 3 veneer geometry of the forearm.

The first eight photos were taken at the the art studio and do not have a clear coat finish yet.

All details of this cue were hand painted with a sable hair liner brush in Ken's capable hands. Note the small signature performed with the brush. All 3D shading where done with an air brush.

The Four Skulled Horseman of the Apocalypse

Death by nuclear fall out from the evil within man's ability to destroy the planet
[/U][/I][/B]

The perfectly aligned stone work with asymmetrical joints are a feature of the architectural reality of the Chichen Itza Pyramid in Mexico. This detail is depicted in the art seen here.

//i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/scdiveteam/IMG_3813.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu86/scdiveteam/IMG_3810.jpg[/IMG]

Comets traveling through space scheduled for earth impact.

Nuclear Holocaust as an end of the world.

Precious cargo getting a clear coat of PPG Concept last night in our shop.

 

[cueman]

Here is an 6-pt EM cue from the 90's, no CNC.
Ernie Martinez even made the 3/8-12 pin and the octagon rubber bumper.
Ivory joint & butt cap, Merry Christmas veneer colors

[/IMG]

The cue is nice but the year is wrong!

 

[cuesblues]

deleted
Sorry for the issue

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

Actually, in the title it does say "CUE OF THE YEAR" meaning 2011. At least that's what I intended it to be. I guess I should clarify this and say 2011 now. (<:

LET'S KEEP EM COMING!!!

John

Sorry John,

Due to the date of this cue was made 7 years ago I have comfirm with Mr. Murrell. I will remove my post.

Kenny

 

[pwd72s]

Wish I could take pics as well as you guys here...but here's a few "point & shoot shots of an oldie I bought new back in the day. I'm sure Gene Balner never heard of a CNC machine.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Well, now you here it from a highly qualified expert[...]

All righty then...

I just found it... um, surprising is the word I guess I'm looking for, that you would use a designation I've always viewed as offensive ("retarded") but
at the same time somehow be personally bothered by the phrase "Special Olympics". Unless of course you just wanted to shift to an argumentum ad hominem to direct focus away from from the point I was raising.

Whatever. I guess it takes all kinds to make up the world. Good luck and happy holidays to all.

TW

 

[JB Cases]

Is there anyone who makes a pool cue without machines of any kind? I see that this thread has ignited another cnc-vs non-cnc debate.

No one responded to Thomas' statement that he could make an identical cue with CNC and without CNC.

So if the resulting cue is exactly the same where then is the reason for a distinction?

I sat watching the cuemaker's roundtable in 2009 and one of the things that they talked about is whose cue is it? Meaning that if you send a cue off to Sandra Brady or any of the other great scrimshanders and then it comes back fantastically decorated and that then is the focal point of the cue then whose cue is it really? At that point isn't the cue just the canvas that the "real" artist used to put their art on?

Is not the scrimshander or the airbrusher the same as the CNC in this case? To me the cue maker is USING something (or someone) other than his own two hands to make a cue that gets attention and accolades.

Why are we drawing divisions? The cue that is leading the cue of the year voting in the "official" thread is not a cnc-decorated cue. It's the Brunswick 360 Tribute by Gracio. So why the drama? Why the need to cause more divide among people?

I get this all the time, "your cases can't be better because you have employees, so and so makes them all by himself and that makes his cases better".........really?

When is the last time you bought a car, a refrigerator, or even a screwdriver that was made by ONE person?

At some point you have to look beyond the technique used and get to the actual item and admire it for it's existence regardless of how it came into being.

To me no cue counts as handmade unless the maker didn't use any power tools whatsoever. If all the energy came only from the cue maker's hands then it's hand made. Any time a machine was used then it's not hand-made anymore.

Some of you have this idea that CNC means throwing a chunk of wood into one end and a 456 overlapping point monster comes out the other end.

I have a laser cutter/engraver.

These parts were cut using it:

Just figuring out these parts cost me a whole day constantly refining the shape and physics to insure that they would be strong and functional and be able to fit into the seam's lacing properly. A whole day spent sitting at the laser tweaking, cutting, lacing, more tweaking, cutting lacing, more tweaking, more cutting, more lacing, in fact I got frustrated and quit and came back the next day.

Looks easy doesn't it?

But in fact when someone tried to copy this "by hand" they missed the important part which is the engineering. Anyone can draw out this shape and cut it "by hand". But if they don't understand the underlying engineering of exactly WHY it was this shape and not another way and why the rivets are just so and not somewhere else, then it's highly likely that their version, done by hand, will fail and break.

When we do any engraving we often have to do quite a lot of prep work before we even turn the laser on. Then once we THINK it's ready to go we then have to test it many times with different levels and different materials to find the combination that works best to achieve the effect we want.

Art is art. The tool to achieve it are only tools. If Michaelangelo had a six axis computer driven router to sculpt with then he would have created even more amazing sculpture than what he did using the tools available to him at the time. Creating division to say that one type of thing is "better" simply because it was created with one set of tools vs. another is petty to me.

Either the resulting cue is stunning because of how all the elements come together or it isn't. It's never good or bad because it was made with CNC or not. At least that shouldn't be the criteria. At the lowest level an indexer is a computer set up to rotate something at exactly predetermined intervals. So all of you doing indexed rings and indexed inlays are using a computer to drive part of your decorating.

If you want to make divisions then use the blue book's levels and have beauty contests based on those levels.

Lastly, since this post will be ignored and piss off the non-cnc crowd where are the all the Filipino cues that are made with hacksaw blades?

Don't those count toward the non-cnc "hand-made" contest? I am willing to bet that like the Ethiopians who dominate marathons that the Filipinos would own the "by hand" category of cue decoration.

Oh and Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and all that

 

[JB Cases]

To imply that such equipment is inexpensive demonstrates a certain detachment I think. From my perspective such tools as CNC are expensive in the extreme. Yes, I have looked at the prices. In fact to me a simple repair lathe is expensive.

Expensive is relative. In fact it's entirely possible to build a CNC these days for under $1000 and in some cases for under $500. These are units where the cutting is done using off the shelf dremels to hold the bits. The dremel is held in place with a bracket.

One only needs to look on YouTube to find dozens of videos on building DIY cnc setups. Some even double as laser cutters.

Ten years ago small units were $10,000 and up. Now you can spend $2k and get a pre-built CNC that is adequate for cue making.

Simple google search brings up plenty of resources for this DIY CNC

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

For those that like to build things with their hands

 

[Chopdoc]

Some of you have this idea that CNC means throwing a chunk of wood into one end and a 456 overlapping point monster comes out the other end.

I would like to know who specifically, by name, thinks that.

As usual JB thinks everybody but him is stupid. :thumbup:

"I myself have been guilty of acting like a know-it-all on the subject of cue case making and other things related to pool. So lately I have had to take a few steps back..." John Barton, October 30, 2009

Now...I thought we were having a nice time here.

Can we see some more non-CNC cues please? Or maybe comment on those posted?

I like that airbrushed cue. I think they kind of don't get enough attention. Nice cue, thanks for showing it off.

So far the butterfly conversion is turning my crank. :thumbup:

 

[Chopdoc]

Expensive is relative. In fact it's entirely possible to build a CNC these days for under $1000 and in some cases for under $500. These are units where the cutting is done using off the shelf dremels to hold the bits. The dremel is held in place with a bracket.

One only needs to look on YouTube to find dozens of videos on building DIY cnc setups. Some even double as laser cutters.

Ten years ago small units were $10,000 and up. Now you can spend $2k and get a pre-built CNC that is adequate for cue making.

Simple google search brings up plenty of resources for this DIY CNC

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

For those that like to build things with their hands

Expensive is relative. Wow, profound. :thumbup:

Sorry, even your $500 mark is expensive to me.

As I said in my post I had already looked into it so I was already well aware of the costs in much greater detail than you posted. But perhaps you ignored that part of my post.....

But thanks anyway. :thumbup:

Care to comment on any of the beautiful cues posted?

Just curious.

 

[JB Cases]

Expensive is relative. Wow, profound. :thumbup:

Sorry, even your $500 mark is expensive to me.

As I said in my post I had already looked into it so I was already well aware of the costs in much greater detail than you posted. But perhaps you ignored that part of my post.....

But thanks anyway. :thumbup:

Care to comment on any of the beautiful cues posted?

Just curious.

No I read your entire post. I am sorry that $500 is expensive to you. Hence the expensive is relative comment. Not trying to be profound but trying to bring accuracy to the discussion since you declined to do so. $500 or even $2000 is not expensive in light of the capability that owning a CNC mill allows.

Had you wanted to make the point that you personally cannot afford to spend $500 and your time to build a CNC then I think you would have made it clearly.

Or perhaps your point is that $500 is too much money to acquire this capability regardless of whether you can afford it or not? I am not sure exactly what you mean.

Regardless, the cost of acquiring a CNC setup is very low compared to what it was ten years ago, five years ago and even 20 years ago when people like Bill Stroud and Thomas Wayne began to dabble in it.

My friend spent $48,000 in 2001 on a four head custom-built one. Now he could have the same capability for less than $10,000 and run four cues doing different things at the same time.

Not only that the resource base in the DIY CNC community is large and deep. That's virtually unlimited social and technical support that is worth millions. So any cue maker who wanted to get into CNC now does not have to discover everything on almost on their own like Thomas and Billy did.

I commented on the pricing because I have been looking at this stuff for a few years with the intent of adding CNC milling to our shop's capabilities. One of the often overlooked advantages to having a CNC mill is the ability to use it to make precise tools and jigs. We already do that with our laser cutter but there are some things for which a mill is clearly better.

Your comment to Thomas was that he seems detached to say that the cost of CNC is low. You are wrong and he is right. Not only is he not detached or insensitive he knows far more about this subject than you every will. Especially if $500 is too much for you to outfit yourself with CNC capability.

It is low, it is available to any cue maker that wants it. And this was Thomas' point, why handicap yourself unnecessarily and then pretend that limiting yourself is a virtue? It would be different if the technology were not available to all for peanuts.

Do I care to comment on the cues?

Yes I will, Chris Hightower's butterfly cue is really awesome. I have a friend who makes cues in his storage closest. He spends a lot of time gluing up blocks and cutting them at various angles then glues them back together and cuts them again at an angle and repeats this until he has the core all set up and when he then turns the last block round the most beautiful patterns emerge.

To me this is magic. To him it's a result of trial and error and maybe some math, has to be some math in there somewhere even if he isn't using it. But to me it's magic to see wood flowing within wood like this.

Maybe Thomas will share with us but one year he showed up at Valley forge and he had a butt sleeve that was two types of wood with the darker wood inlaid into the lighter wood. Think of a sterotypical keyhole shape. This is how the inlay went. But the thing is that both pieces of wood were unbroken. That's right, two pieces of wood cut as a perfect unbroken tube inlaid into each other with a keyhole shape.

That was magic as well. I don't know if Thomas used a CNC mill or not but he created a real-life Escheresque puzzle that I would dare anyone to recreate by hand or by cnc. Since then I think a few have done it but not many and Thomas would probably say not as well. The point being that it's not the tool, it's the mind that guides the tool.

 

[JB Cases]

I would like to know who specifically, by name, thinks that.

As usual JB thinks everybody but him is stupid. :thumbup:

Too bad Doug isn't here. He would eviscerate you. The only person I think is "stupider" than me right now is you as evidenced by your willingness to attack me personally.

Now...I thought we were having a nice time here.

We are I think.

Can we see some more non-CNC cues please? Or maybe comment on those posted?

Maybe people don't need to be goaded into posting when they obviously didn't want to get into the non-cnc/cnc argument.

I like that airbrushed cue. I think they kind of don't get enough attention. Nice cue, thanks for showing it off.

Yes, it's very pretty. But don't you think that it should have been "hand-painted" instead?

So far the butterfly conversion is turning my crank. :thumbup:

Apparently your crank is easy to turn.

 

[Big-Tattoo]

look in the Cue of the Year 2011 Thread and you will see my old Darrin Hill double fullspile Cue WITHOUT CNC:thumbup:
He make me a new one for my Birthday
Ralf