Cue Sale by Check

SCCues

SCCues

< Searing Twins
Silver Member
I made a deal to sell a cue to a man who runs an internet web site that sells cues. He sent me a check to pay for the cue that looked exactly like my personal checks except it had his web sites name listed below his name and other than that it looked like a personal check. I took the check to my bank to cash it and my bank told me I had to wait five days for it to clear or i'd be liable for the total amount through my checking account. I informed the buyer that I had to wait until the check cleared before I could ship the cue to him and he got hostile with me thinking I was implying his check wasn't any good. I tried to explain to him that I was following my banks instructions and I couldn't afford to lose that much money if the check didn't clear.

Was I wrong not shipping the cue like the buyer accuses me of being?

SCCues

Note: This is a follow up to my original post. I just returned from my bank "Bank of America" and I asked them to please call and verify that the check I received from my cue buyer had cleared and I was told that due to the Patriot Act they couldn't by law call another bank and ask them to verify a check from another individual!" I asked the customer service lady How am I supposed to verify this check has cleared and she told me to call the person who wrote the check and have them go to their bank and get a copy of the cancelled check and fax it to me. I told her that this doesn't make sense to have to go to this much trouble!
The bottom line is I guess it's better not to Accept Personal Checks unless the buyer is prepared to wait a long time to get their item!

SCCues
 
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SCCues said:
I made a deal to sell a cue to a man who runs an internet web site that sells cues. He sent me a check to pay for the cue that looked exactly like my personal checks except it had his web sites name listed below his name and other than that it looked like a personal check. I took the check to my bank to cash it and my bank told me I had to wait five days for it to clear or i'd be liable for the total amount through my checking account. I informed the buyer that I had to wait until the check cleared before I could ship the cue to him and he got hostile with me thinking I was implying his check wasn't any good. I tried to explain to him that I was following my banks instructions and I couldn't afford to lose that much money if the check didn't clear.

Was I wrong not shipping the cue like the buyer accuses me of being?

SCCues
Click to expand...

HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!! Nuff said.
 
SCCues said:
I made a deal to sell a cue to a man who runs an internet web site that sells cues. He sent me a check to pay for the cue that looked exactly like my personal checks except it had his web sites name listed below his name and other than that it looked like a personal check. I took the check to my bank to cash it and my bank told me I had to wait five days for it to clear or i'd be liable for the total amount through my checking account. I informed the buyer that I had to wait until the check cleared before I could ship the cue to him and he got hostile with me thinking I was implying his check wasn't any good. I tried to explain to him that I was following my banks instructions and I couldn't afford to lose that much money if the check didn't clear.

Was I wrong not shipping the cue like the buyer accuses me of being?

SCCues
Click to expand...

You were totally correct in your actions. On ebay, most people accept personal or company checks with the person issuing the check knowing he or she might have to wait a few days for the check to clear to make sure the funds are available. There are too many what if's with personal checks being written. You may have lost the cue and the money and you could have been stuck holding the bag and paying bank fees too boot. If the check is over 500 dollars and the check was bad, it becomes a federal offense and possible prison time for the person who wrote the check, that is why your bank would hold YOU responsible, because you are easy to catch and they do not want to chase down an unknown person and why should they, the person wrote you the check and they did'nt write it to the bank. So always keep that in mind when dealing with checks.
 
A lot of businesses say allow two weeks for shipping. This is so they will know the check has cleared.

I wouldn't take a check from anyone. But if I had to, I would wait until it cleared before shipping anything.

I recently went to a restaurant and they had a whole wall of bad checks.

The buyer could have sent a money order or a cashiers check if he was in a hurry, but you can get burned on these as well, so best to wait until those have cleared too.

You can take charge cards and verify certain information (address, shipping address the same, name of bank, phone number of bank on card, code on back of card), then I think you are guaranteed that you will get the money. (Check with bank on that....)
 
SCCues said:
Was I wrong not shipping the cue like the buyer accuses me of being?

SCCues
Click to expand...

If he were someone you deal with on a regular basis, then he might be right, but otherwise even commercially companies have to prove themselves to each other before credit is established. A check is merely a "promise to pay" and should be treated that way. Since you probably don't run credit checks on everyone you deal with, it was not unreasonable for you to wait the 5 days.

Chris
 
:) Thanks for all of the replies. I wanted to ask some of the people in this group for opinions on this since the guy has sent me a couple of nasty emails. I'm tempted to send him his money back and keep the cue after the way he's acted about our deal. I've had a number of other interested buyers for the cue and I would probably be better off dealing with someone else.

SCCues
 
Your actions were both reasonable and proper. In the general case, a buyer should expect this kind of delay when using a personal check, and must realize that if quick delivery is a high priority, then use of a certified check or credit card would be far more advisable.
 
SCCues said:
:) I'm tempted to send him his money back and keep the cue after the way he's acted about our deal. I've had a number of other interested buyers for the cue and I would probably be better off dealing with someone else. SCCues
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That might be a very wise choice.

It does sound odd that he is kicking up such a fuss over it.
It is a sad thing to say but anyone that uses poor business practices will quickly get burned. He should know that better than you.
 
One thing you should know. A bank can deduct the money from your account on ANY check presented for up to one year if the issuer of the check disputes the check. The bank that the check was drawn on can issue an ACH withdrawl against your account, the money WILL be withdrawn and the burden of proof will be ON YOU.

You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in withholding the merchandise until the check has "cleared". Tell your customer that you will be happy to return his check and more than happy to accept a money order or AMEX traveler's checks for the amount to insure same day shipping.

It AMAZES me that in this day and age people would make a fuss about this since ALL business people, and for that matter all people, have had to wait until checks clear before having access to the funds. Why would any one think they have an undeniable right to the goods BEFORE the seller can access the money?

I HATE CHECKS AND I HATE THE BANKING SYSTEM. CASH ON THE BARRELHEAD IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. Unfortunately we are stuck with what we have and it is up to each of us to protect ourselves as best we can. My friend has taken hits on checks in the last two weeks to the tune of about $3500. No one is going to reimburse him his time spent on collecting on those checks nor for the loss of revenue in the time spent doing it.

John
 
On a side note I once received a check that had a Monopoly Bank Collector figure holding his hand out like on an monopoly game card. Then it said:

PAY TO THIS PERSON: my name
THIS MUCH MONEY: $57.
Then his signature and account # info on the bottom.

There was no bank name, address, customer name and
there was no second line to write out:
fifty seven and no/100 ------ Dollars
like most checks have.

The bank teller sure did a second take on it and showed it to every one in the bank. It cleared with no problem.
Guess where the guy worked at?
"Sesame Street"
I forget what he did there, but that is where he worked.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
 
cueman said:
On a side note I once received a check that had a Monopoly Bank Collector figure holding his hand out like on an monopoly game card.
Click to expand...

LOL ... so much for the funny one.
Now for the tears.
What is the largest amount you have been swindled out of, Chris?
 
WilleeCue said:
LOL ... so much for the funny one.
Now for the tears.
What is the largest amount you have been swindled out of, Chris?
Click to expand...

No u did the right thing .i was told that by the all cue dealers. thats why i pay money order.
 
SCCues,

Here's an interesting one for you. About twenty five years ago, a salesman at one of my stores took a check for a rather large purchase. He did not question the check because the product was for delivery. To a local top shelf hotel! The check writers name? Hiram T. Ripps. The guy accepted the check because it had certified stamped on it. No bank info, no officers signature, no registration numbers, no nothing. Just the word certified stamped on it. I called the local police. They told me to have the product delivered. They, at the least, could "interview" the purchaser upon receipt of goods. We delivered the goods to the hotel. When we asked at the front counter, the guest had already left. Without paying of course. I bet that in the following twenty five years, someone has tried that little gem quite a few times and succeeded!
 
The book, Catch Me If You Can, is an interesting eye opener on the various ways to commit check fraud.

I think checks are a bane on society. We could have FREE top shelf health care for every citizen in this country with the money saved by not having to write, process and manage checks coupled with the time spent attempting to collect on bad checks.

It would be possible to operate within our available funds in a controlled way. It would be possible for the people to get their money right away from another person's account and for that person to NEVER be overdrawn. Checks and ACH transactions are just a way for the banking industry to move money in such ways as to maximize their interest on it. Banks rejoice when customers overdraw their accounts. Each bank gets paid on both ends. The person who deposits the check is hit with a fee, even though he has NO WAY of knowing if the funds will be there when the check is presented for payment to the issuing bank. The person who has insufficient funds is hit with a fee. And now with electronic re-submission, this can happen three or four times on the same check.

Think about it for just a moment, think about how MUCH MONEY is taken from consumers through the use of checks? In the end are they really a convenience or a bane?

John
 
cueman said:
On a side note I once received a check that had a Monopoly Bank Collector figure holding his hand out like on an monopoly game card. Then it said:

PAY TO THIS PERSON: my name
THIS MUCH MONEY: $57.
Then his signature and account # info on the bottom.

There was no bank name, address, customer name and
there was no second line to write out:
fifty seven and no/100 ------ Dollars
like most checks have.

The bank teller sure did a second take on it and showed it to every one in the bank. It cleared with no problem.
Guess where the guy worked at?
"Sesame Street"
I forget what he did there, but that is where he worked.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
Click to expand...


Another little known fact - A bank is supposed to accept ANY piece of paper that has a pay to, from information, account information and a signature. They of course do not, claiming that Federal Law prevents them, which is not true. Any type of promissory note is a legally binding contract to pay as long as it is genuine. Thus, when I take a blank piece of paper and write a pay to notice with the right information on it and a valid signature then that is a legal check. But most banks will not accept it even though they are supposed to. The reason they won't is because they prefer to have checks with the information printed in magnetized ink so that it can be read by their computers and processed electronically.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
The book, Catch Me If You Can, is an interesting eye opener on the various ways to commit check fraud.

I think checks are a bane on society. We could have FREE top shelf health care for every citizen in this country with the money saved by not having to write, process and manage checks coupled with the time spent attempting to collect on bad checks.

It would be possible to operate within our available funds in a controlled way. It would be possible for the people to get their money right away from another person's account and for that person to NEVER be overdrawn. Checks and ACH transactions are just a way for the banking industry to move money in such ways as to maximize their interest on it. Banks rejoice when customers overdraw their accounts. Each bank gets paid on both ends. The person who deposits the check is hit with a fee, even though he has NO WAY of knowing if the funds will be there when the check is presented for payment to the issuing bank. The person who has insufficient funds is hit with a fee. And now with electronic re-submission, this can happen three or four times on the same check.

Think about it for just a moment, think about how MUCH MONEY is taken from consumers through the use of checks? In the end are they really a convenience or a bane?

John
Click to expand...

Or credit card late fees and over limit fees.
They make more from that than the intrest charged.
My mother had a credit card she did not use for three years.
It was overdrawn because of late fees.
She sent in $50 a month and they hit her with $30 in overdraft fees.
 
onepocketchump said:
Another little known fact - A bank is supposed to accept ANY piece of paper that has a pay to, from information, account information and a signature. They of course do not, claiming that Federal Law prevents them, which is not true. Any type of promissory note is a legally binding contract to pay as long as it is genuine. Thus, when I take a blank piece of paper and write a pay to notice with the right information on it and a valid signature then that is a legal check. But most banks will not accept it even though they are supposed to. The reason they won't is because they prefer to have checks with the information printed in magnetized ink so that it can be read by their computers and processed electronically.

John
Click to expand...


I've heard that the strangest check (matter of opinion) there ever was was written on an egg! Try getting that through one of their machines.

Personally, I use PayPal or c/c on line and my bank card elsewhere....now if I could simply create my income like the Federal Reserve system does...

Jeff Livingston
 
I sell books and my industry has a recurring problem with the Nigerian scammers. They try to order large quantities of books and have them shipped overnight to Nigeria. I had a guy in another store who fell for it early on...maybe two or three years ago. After agreeing to fill the order, they received via FedEx a cashier's check that looked absolutely authentic, the bank cleared the check and the store shipped the merchandise. Five days later the cashier's check worked its way through the system and was determined to be fake by the issuing bank. The check deposit was reversed, (about $3K at cost plus almost another grand for the shipping), but by them the books had been picked up in Nigeria. Just two weeks ago, I had one of our customer service ladies telling me she had an order for 45 Law Dictionaries to be sent to Nigeria. Once they had her hooked they were quite insistent about her sending out the order, called her a couple of times before she brought the order to my attention. I told her to tell them that I would only take a cashier's check (!) but that I would wait three weeks for it to clear before I would ship the product. They never called back. This scam usually starts via e-mail, but lately they've been calling through the TTD operater, that's the service that makes calls for people who with hearing disabilities.

So, I would say that nowadays merchants need to be very, very careful when selling through the internet. Send that silly cue buyer this e-mail and tell him to get over it. He needs to stop using personal checks and join the new millenium.
 
You have done nothing wrong. I sell cues part time and I tell all my customers that they have to wait til their check clears. I do this on all kinds of checks not just personal checks; bank checks, cashiers checks, money orders. Ive seen fake cashiers checks floating around and I almost lost $4000 worth of cues. The only way I would ship without waiting is to have the payment made thru Paypal. That way the funds are in my account in a few seconds and its secure. I know alot of people dislike using Paypal but Ive been using it for 4 years now and have not had a problem with it.
 
WilleeCue said:
LOL ... so much for the funny one.
Now for the tears.
What is the largest amount you have been swindled out of, Chris?
Click to expand...
Largest uncollected bad check for me is $1150. They were midsize cue makers who bought shaft wood from me regularly and I never had any problems accepting checks from them until that one. They went out of business later. It sometimes makes people mad and I lose some business because of my "Cashiers check or Money Order in advance" on my Cue Smith lathes, inlay machines and large orders. But I am not taking chances on thousands of dollar deals.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
 
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