cuemaker integrity
- Thread starter CAPPY
- Start date
I for one, greatly prefer the makers who feature the classic designs of Balabushka, Rambow, Szamboti etc. I don't see too many "original" styles that I like enough to lay down big bucks for. In fact, nothing I've ever seen could tempt me away from those previously mentioned Master's general styles.
That being said, I still appreciate the originality of makers like Bill Stroud, Tim Scruggs, Richard Black, Joel Hercek, Paul Mottey,and Chris Nitti on cues where it occurs, but I ORDER the classic designs. I just like them best. I currently have a Rambow style cue in a 4 point, 4 veneer with simple ivory diamonds in the points and again at the butt ordered from Paul Dayton. Of course it has an ivory Hoppe ring in the ebony butt, an ivory joint and a curly maple front with a medium honey stain. That's a beautiful classic design to me. Frig originality...Tom
That being said, I still appreciate the originality of makers like Bill Stroud, Tim Scruggs, Richard Black, Joel Hercek, Paul Mottey,and Chris Nitti on cues where it occurs, but I ORDER the classic designs. I just like them best. I currently have a Rambow style cue in a 4 point, 4 veneer with simple ivory diamonds in the points and again at the butt ordered from Paul Dayton. Of course it has an ivory Hoppe ring in the ebony butt, an ivory joint and a curly maple front with a medium honey stain. That's a beautiful classic design to me. Frig originality...Tom
there are only so many ways to build a cue. At some point your going to be using someone elses ideas unintenally. I have a friend who builds cues and he took his dimensions off his Szam then changed things around a bit and incorporated his own ideas and the cues he built played great, he didnt build alot of cues,
Rib, if your intention is to buy retail and resell for a profit later, I'd avoid buying most cues except for SW and Searing, not just the makers you mentioned. Additionally, I rarely see an Ed Prewitt cue for sale used.
Martin
Martin
ribdoner said:In addition I havn't had success selling, or have I seen any, AC or EP cues sell for close to retail on the secondary market. Does anybody have any thoughts on this?
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Joe, I completely agree that how a cue is constructed is of little interest to many. I do know from direct experience that I highly prefer the outcome of some construction methods versus others. For example, I like parts that are threaded on and epoxied with 3M DP-420. I like the use of jigs that lead to a forearm or butt that spins concentrically which leads to points that line up. I prefer cored cues for several reasons (they tend to stay straighter longer is one), especially when the cores and handles are woods or laminates with high tap tone.
Although I greatly respect Balabushka and his craft, his cues would be considered primitively constructed by today's standards. I saw a disassembled forearm at (Ginacue) Ernie's shop and I was surprized that it had a massive steel furniture lag bolt to connect forarm to the handle. The bolt must have weighed 2oz by itself. It was pointed out to me by Ernie that the points had been inked in to be even. I don't think many cuemakers use a spray can lacquer finish on their cues these days either. My understanding is George didn't have much in the way of machinery other than a lathe and a bandsaw. He was certainly a master in his time, so I am not knocking him. Yes, I would expect any cue made from a Titlist blank to possibly fail at the veneers in time. They don't have to but they could. Todays adhesives are stronger and more durable.
Martin
Although I greatly respect Balabushka and his craft, his cues would be considered primitively constructed by today's standards. I saw a disassembled forearm at (Ginacue) Ernie's shop and I was surprized that it had a massive steel furniture lag bolt to connect forarm to the handle. The bolt must have weighed 2oz by itself. It was pointed out to me by Ernie that the points had been inked in to be even. I don't think many cuemakers use a spray can lacquer finish on their cues these days either. My understanding is George didn't have much in the way of machinery other than a lathe and a bandsaw. He was certainly a master in his time, so I am not knocking him. Yes, I would expect any cue made from a Titlist blank to possibly fail at the veneers in time. They don't have to but they could. Todays adhesives are stronger and more durable.
Martin
classiccues said:
jazznpool said:
Many makers build some cues that I've seen trade at higher than original retail on the secondary market. In addition to SW and SEARING others would include, but not be limited to: B.SZAM, TASC, HERCEK, TIBBETS, MANZINO, R. HARRIS, MOTTEY, HALEY, SHOWMAN, GINA,
The last EP that I saw sell was a dead nutz dynooomite multi point, fancy example which the seller indicated retailed for 3k. It sold for somewhat less....
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I have to agree Mr. Webb makes some great cues.I also have to add Brent from BHQ's he tells you if there is some thing he does not like with the cue and is great to talk too.He will take as much time as is needed to make sure every thing goes right.I know he is not well know yet ( and I mean yet) but he is an upcomming cue maker.I have not spoken to Mr. Webb yet but look forward to meeeting him and having him build me a cue.
shark3149 said:
Thank you
I look forward to meeting you also, even if you don't buy.
For others just a side note, Please don't underestimate Arial, He's got some serious knowledge.. Like the saying goes,
YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET!
Just my .02
jazznpool said:
So Martin, could you tell if I handed you a cue that didn't have parts epoxied with 3M DP-420? This is the point. As far as Georges construction, how many are still together today? The lag bolt was what George had at the time, and it was the method he was most comfortable with.
Tascarella's preference was a water based glue for his laminates and forearms. Does that make him any less of a cuemaker?
I'll call you the first time I am using a conversion and the points fall out. Maybe you should warn everyone who buys a converted titlist, let alone a 100 year old butterfly conversion that their cue "could" fall apart.
Coring, since its a relatively new method, how do you conclude it will stay straighter longer? Whats your benchmark? Straighter longer than what? My Szamboti built in 76 is dead straight, will a cored cue be straight in 30 years? How do you know? It could be concluded that coring is a shortcut to bypass the proper aging and care of wood while making a cue. Not that it is, but it could be skewed to that direction if someone wanted to make that statement.
JV
CueMaker Integrity
David Jacoby is above reproach when it comes to Integrity ... You will not meet a nicer man or more honest cuemaker ... Look him up at the BCA in Las Vegas this May ... His cues are solid, well-crafted, and hit great ...
David Jacoby is above reproach when it comes to Integrity ... You will not meet a nicer man or more honest cuemaker ... Look him up at the BCA in Las Vegas this May ... His cues are solid, well-crafted, and hit great ...
Opinions should apparently be singular.
For someone who preaches that we are all entitled to our opinions you seem to have no problem attacking the opinions of others. You said you didn't like AC's cues. I do. I posted a picture of a cue I like. I really couldn't care less if you feel that the style is not original! That is a cue I like. That's my opinion. Deal with it. You will notice, if you take the time to read, that I commented that I would love to see the collection of someone who doesn't like AC's cues. That is an invitation to comment on other great cue makers and show off designs that are, in YOUR opinion, nicer than AC. Instead of jumping into calling me an "idiot" perhaps you could take your own advice and allow for others to voice their opinions. I didn't comment that the cue makers you mentioned were in any way inferior to AC, just that I like some of his cues and want one some day. Simple. How you have such a hard time with that is beyond me. I don't enjoy name calling or assuming I know someone just because I can read a post. I suggest you consider a similar mindset.
pharaoh68 said:
For someone who preaches that we are all entitled to our opinions you seem to have no problem attacking the opinions of others. You said you didn't like AC's cues. I do. I posted a picture of a cue I like. I really couldn't care less if you feel that the style is not original! That is a cue I like. That's my opinion. Deal with it. You will notice, if you take the time to read, that I commented that I would love to see the collection of someone who doesn't like AC's cues. That is an invitation to comment on other great cue makers and show off designs that are, in YOUR opinion, nicer than AC. Instead of jumping into calling me an "idiot" perhaps you could take your own advice and allow for others to voice their opinions. I didn't comment that the cue makers you mentioned were in any way inferior to AC, just that I like some of his cues and want one some day. Simple. How you have such a hard time with that is beyond me. I don't enjoy name calling or assuming I know someone just because I can read a post. I suggest you consider a similar mindset.
Ariel Carmeli
Well, I have had problems with cue makers, but you dont hear me complaining. or trying to pursuede AZ members not to buy them.
Ariel Carmeli, I havent had the oportunity to even look at one of his cues other than pic's on the net. I Havent played with an Ariel Carmeli, So I cant say if I would like his cue's. the Pic of the one in this thread, I like it. If by design it resembles another, I wouldnt say it was bad taste, the cue looks great, to me. maybe Im missing something? Im not going to look at a cue I like and frown at its design because some person has a personal problem with the cue maker in question. So yes I would own the cue that was posted in this thread, If I was to keep it.. here is an example of how I go about determing if I keep a cue. along with what I prefere.
I actuly prefere a cue maker that by design is simple. Dont impress me with inlays and ring work, let the playability sell the cue. Hard to do if you cant hit with one before you buy it, Then there is the player, you can use a long loose bridge and any shaft will feel whippy. you can use a short tight bridge and a really whippy shaft will feel more solid.
Ever see a pro with a really long bridge? I see this and it tells me the shaft is really to stiff for this player. Considering, 8-10" of cue stick beyond the bridge hand is ideal IMO, and is the standard whitch I feel cues should be rated by hit. if your bridge is 14+" and you like the hit, you like a softer hitting cue. if your bridge is short - 4-6" you proboly like a stiff hard hitting cue.
you can try really long to really short bridge hand lengths on your current cue and see if you notice a differance in the hit. I think you will, I know I do. Ive done this to test a cues hit for 10 years. the cues that preform well @ 8-12" I keep. Hit may be subjective, and I agree not everyone like's the same type hit, you can make it easier to determine what you like by trying differnt bridge lengths on the cues you try. so If I ask, how does it hit? Im speaking with a tight bridge hand 8-10" of cue beyond the bridge hand.
SPINDOKTOR
Well, I have had problems with cue makers, but you dont hear me complaining. or trying to pursuede AZ members not to buy them.
Ariel Carmeli, I havent had the oportunity to even look at one of his cues other than pic's on the net. I Havent played with an Ariel Carmeli, So I cant say if I would like his cue's. the Pic of the one in this thread, I like it. If by design it resembles another, I wouldnt say it was bad taste, the cue looks great, to me. maybe Im missing something? Im not going to look at a cue I like and frown at its design because some person has a personal problem with the cue maker in question. So yes I would own the cue that was posted in this thread, If I was to keep it.. here is an example of how I go about determing if I keep a cue. along with what I prefere.
I actuly prefere a cue maker that by design is simple. Dont impress me with inlays and ring work, let the playability sell the cue. Hard to do if you cant hit with one before you buy it, Then there is the player, you can use a long loose bridge and any shaft will feel whippy. you can use a short tight bridge and a really whippy shaft will feel more solid.
Ever see a pro with a really long bridge? I see this and it tells me the shaft is really to stiff for this player. Considering, 8-10" of cue stick beyond the bridge hand is ideal IMO, and is the standard whitch I feel cues should be rated by hit. if your bridge is 14+" and you like the hit, you like a softer hitting cue. if your bridge is short - 4-6" you proboly like a stiff hard hitting cue.
you can try really long to really short bridge hand lengths on your current cue and see if you notice a differance in the hit. I think you will, I know I do. Ive done this to test a cues hit for 10 years. the cues that preform well @ 8-12" I keep. Hit may be subjective, and I agree not everyone like's the same type hit, you can make it easier to determine what you like by trying differnt bridge lengths on the cues you try. so If I ask, how does it hit? Im speaking with a tight bridge hand 8-10" of cue beyond the bridge hand.
SPINDOKTOR
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Yo Joe, In any for of human endeavor or craft there is a knowledge base and what could be called informed opinion (you probably knew this). Cuemaking is no exception to that. I feel better about selling cues I know are made from quality components and are well constructed (They're not widgets to me). I've spent many hours talking with cuemakers (over a period of 30 years or more), wood dealers, and others and working in a cue shop to have more than a basic knowledge of cue construction. I've taken the time to travel and buy thousands of dollars of hardwoods and shaftwood and get educated about woods used to make cues. Of course there's always more to learn (and that keeps it fun). I couldn't tell you what adhesive was used in a cue but that is not an excuse for me to happy with a cuemaker using poor qualty adhesives. Some guys use contact cement to put tips on. You might not be able to tell the difference but I would never approve of this for cues I sell. I want the tips put on with cyano.
I try to use what knowledge I have accumulated as a player, cue owner, cuemaker assistant, and dealer to help potential customers make informed decisions about their cue purchases. I don't pretend to know it all. I do know something, however, and have owned good cues since 1970 and high quality cues since 1977.
My direct experience and discussions with other cuemakers I respect lead me to highly value tap tone in cue woods. To some this is akin to lunacy. The laminated cores that Ariel and a few others use are consistent in tone and also help produce a firm hitting forearm. Besides helping the cue stay straight, this is one of the other reasons I like cored forearms. I'm not downing non-cored cues. I have a pair of Searings coming (in this lifetime, I think
) and Dennis does not core at all. But, he will select out birdseye maple that has figure and relatively high tap tone. I don't want cues with forearms and shafts made from thuddy sounding woods for myself or any of my customers if I can help it. I might not be able to articulate the science of it but it has to do with the way the cue vibrates and feels in your hand when striking balls with it. That's my 3 cents.
Martin
I try to use what knowledge I have accumulated as a player, cue owner, cuemaker assistant, and dealer to help potential customers make informed decisions about their cue purchases. I don't pretend to know it all. I do know something, however, and have owned good cues since 1970 and high quality cues since 1977.
My direct experience and discussions with other cuemakers I respect lead me to highly value tap tone in cue woods. To some this is akin to lunacy. The laminated cores that Ariel and a few others use are consistent in tone and also help produce a firm hitting forearm. Besides helping the cue stay straight, this is one of the other reasons I like cored forearms. I'm not downing non-cored cues. I have a pair of Searings coming (in this lifetime, I think
) and Dennis does not core at all. But, he will select out birdseye maple that has figure and relatively high tap tone. I don't want cues with forearms and shafts made from thuddy sounding woods for myself or any of my customers if I can help it. I might not be able to articulate the science of it but it has to do with the way the cue vibrates and feels in your hand when striking balls with it. That's my 3 cents.Martin
classiccues said:
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what amazes me is that with all the new equipment, adheavsivs, materials etc, that a G.Szam still feels better than most new cues. its just my opinion and it is shared by many who have played with them, and their pins arnt centered very good, there is a slight wobble when you put the tip in the slate bed and butt on the rail and roll it. The some of new cues are dead nuts perfect but dont play as good. why is that?
i'm not living in the past, there are good cues made today, Tad comes to mind, but then again he old school cue maker.
i'm not living in the past, there are good cues made today, Tad comes to mind, but then again he old school cue maker.
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Mr. Webb I had one of your cues but I had to let it go but I have my eye on one now.I hope to talk to you soon and have you make me one.I had to get rid of the one I had because some one had to have it and I needed the cash.I hated to sell it but I will own another one as soon as I can.
shark3149 said:
Thank you, It's my pleasure to serve you.
A big thanks to you Mike! I recieved my cue the other day and it is great. I haven't had the time to email you back to let you know that I recieved it. The joint is perfect and I couldn't have asked for anything better. Sorry about not letting you know that I live in Alaska. I look forward to doing business with you and purchasing a cue from you in the future. Thanks again Mike!