I may be new to AZ but I have been around pool for my whole life and I just wanted start my membership by praising two cue makers. First Mike Webb. I own sevaral of his cues that he made for me and let me just say that not only do I love his cues, but the time and dedication that he puts into every cue is simply amazing. This is man who stands behind his work, takes pride in his work, bares no expense at improving his craft and has my utmost respect. His cues are, in my opinion, one of the best if not the best that I have played with. Moving right along, recently I purchased a Ariel Carmeli sneaky pete. This is the first time I have ever owned or played with a Carmeli and I have to say he builds a great cue. I had the pleasure of meeting Ariel when I purchased the cue and I have to say that after speaking with him about cues this is another cue maker who is very passionate about what he does and stands behind his cues....Thats all for now....
cuemaker integrity
- Thread starter CAPPY
- Start date
Cappy...
I think you hit the nail right on the head but I'll try to add a little something more. I have dealt with various cue makers and I have to say that there are some out there who (#1) are like talking to a brick wall, (#2) Make you feel like they're doing you a favor and they'll return your e-mail or phone call when it's good for them, meanwhile if it wasn't for us there wouldn't be a them but then again maybe it's us that lifted them into stardom (not taking away by any means there talent).
Now on the other hand there are exceptions and yes Mike Webb being a perfect example are a real pleasure to deal with. I know that at any given time if I call him he'll either answer or call back in an hour at worst. Then again he might just pick up the phone himself just to say what's up. That my friends can't be bought or played with because that's called character.
Now like I said I have owned various big name cues and even though I'm not a collector I was always looking at it from a playability point of view and a resale point of view. But after hitting with Mike's cues and seeing the heart and hard work he puts into his cues, he will be the one that I compare everybody else to because there is no reason that I should just feel like I'm just a number on a waiting list after paying some rediculous amount of money.
Mark my words though, the stuff thats he's making now, it won't be long before there is a waiting list for him...but at least it'll be worth waiting for cause his cues play and look awesome. ( Check out his new butterfly splice.)
I think you hit the nail right on the head but I'll try to add a little something more. I have dealt with various cue makers and I have to say that there are some out there who (#1) are like talking to a brick wall, (#2) Make you feel like they're doing you a favor and they'll return your e-mail or phone call when it's good for them, meanwhile if it wasn't for us there wouldn't be a them but then again maybe it's us that lifted them into stardom (not taking away by any means there talent).
Now on the other hand there are exceptions and yes Mike Webb being a perfect example are a real pleasure to deal with. I know that at any given time if I call him he'll either answer or call back in an hour at worst. Then again he might just pick up the phone himself just to say what's up. That my friends can't be bought or played with because that's called character.
Now like I said I have owned various big name cues and even though I'm not a collector I was always looking at it from a playability point of view and a resale point of view. But after hitting with Mike's cues and seeing the heart and hard work he puts into his cues, he will be the one that I compare everybody else to because there is no reason that I should just feel like I'm just a number on a waiting list after paying some rediculous amount of money.
Mark my words though, the stuff thats he's making now, it won't be long before there is a waiting list for him...but at least it'll be worth waiting for cause his cues play and look awesome. ( Check out his new butterfly splice.)
The only actual cue maker Ive known is Ron Haley, he and I helped the owner of a hall move to a new location and we covered and assembled 20 Tempo pool tables, showed me how to cover rails, good guy and awsome cues, actualy that whole bunch was awsome, I learned alot when I was there, a still like playing golf,, I believe Rick was the guy who introduced me to that game, and Johnny we played 9 ball on the Gandy, and Mark, geez how many cues did I buy? I still remember that 10 speed I beat out of 30$ for a 1$ a game, WHILE the APPA president was there,haha, wish I would have taken that offer.
I bet Ron wouldnt even remeber my name, I remember him, I suppose thats all that matters.
SPINDOKTOR
I bet Ron wouldnt even remeber my name, I remember him, I suppose thats all that matters.
SPINDOKTOR
Cappy and Shane
Thank you for your kind words. It's a pleasure to have worked with both of you.
Thank you for your kind words. It's a pleasure to have worked with both of you.
pharaoh68
Banned
Cappy-
I will agree with you... but only partially.
I agree that Mike Webb is a solid cuemaker who builds a solid cue. His cues all play well and that I will not deny. He stands behind his work and offers a great product at a great price.
However, I am NOT too big of a fan of Ariel Carmeli. I find his designs to be rather uninspired and in some situations, poorly executed. There is little about Ariel Carmeli's work that strikes me as note worthy. But again, opinions are like ass-holes. And I'm definitely an ass-hole!!!!!
Talk to ya later, Cap.
Brian
I will agree with you... but only partially.
I agree that Mike Webb is a solid cuemaker who builds a solid cue. His cues all play well and that I will not deny. He stands behind his work and offers a great product at a great price.
However, I am NOT too big of a fan of Ariel Carmeli. I find his designs to be rather uninspired and in some situations, poorly executed. There is little about Ariel Carmeli's work that strikes me as note worthy. But again, opinions are like ass-holes. And I'm definitely an ass-hole!!!!!
Talk to ya later, Cap.
Brian
PoolSponge said:
Yeah, I think you need to send that cue to me right away, geez that thing is horrid, um, hey just send all your AC cues to me, SERIOUSLY, NOW!
Being serious that is a fine looking cue, I would definately own it.
SPINDOKTOR
I own a Paul Mottey and interviewed him for a pool newspaper article several years ago. Over Christmas this last year he refinished my cue (that he made in 1987) and did a great job as usual. I found him to be quite the gentleman. I understand that he also partially owns a pool hall in Pittsburg.
His shop is difficult to find, the first time. But he is a heck of a nice guy and the quality of his work is seen in every one of his cue sticks.
His shop is difficult to find, the first time. But he is a heck of a nice guy and the quality of his work is seen in every one of his cue sticks.
pharaoh68
Banned
PoolSponge said:
Wow! You're right! That is a great knock-off, ahem! I mean, design! And completely original too. So original, in fact, that its called a "Strouboti" because its a rip of two different cuemaker's styles!
I understand your point Sponge, but rest assured, I've seen and played with plenty of Carmelis. Uninspired and unimpressive are the only words I have. Now if you can knock my socks off with a truly original design that is not a knock-off / slash tribute cue, be my guest. (If you find one, make sure to look at the ringwork, the inlays, and the points before posting pics.)
- Oh! And since you seem intrigued, I am presently playing with a Paul Mottey. I've owned a bunch of others from Scruggs to Bluegrass to one of the most beautiful and original Paul Fanelli cues I have ever seen. And I've got about 5 more cues on order (Haley, Mottey, Sugartree x2, and Martinez).
Michael Webb said:
mike...every time i try your site i get directed to [dealers,stores] sellers.do you farm out all your sales now or can i order one directetly from you. i live across the border in conn. some 35 miles from you.i would love one of your cues but dont want to pay the ''vig''or going thru a dealer.if its possible you can reply here with a simple y/n and ill understand....thanks
diller47 said:
Hi Diller
You are welcome to visit anytime, I only ask that an appointment be made. For examples of the cues you have to double click the galleries, For available cues, I don't have any, so I try to sell for my dealers when I can out of respect, I don't believe in back dooring them. I will always take direct orders. My regular email is webbcues@cox.net, this is the best way to get in touch with me,
I know this guy who would drive an hour to visit Mike Webb to have his tip put on. Mike must be doing something right to have this kind of loyalty from his customers.
I want to mention Jack Justis, although he is a case maker rather than a cue maker.
Jack is a real nice person to talk to, is obviously very intelligent, and yet also very modest.
When I travelled with my Justis case, the people at immigration damaged my case by trying to force it to open. The snap was broken in half. Needless to say, I was very upset.
I called Jack right away, I was really impressed by not only his willingness to take care of my problem, but also how he took the extra efoorts to try make me feel better, and helped me to understand how the snaps were constructed.
Jack is also a great listener. I am sure he is very busy with orders and such, but he always takes his time to listen to what I have to say.
Thank you, Jack.
Richard
I want to mention Jack Justis, although he is a case maker rather than a cue maker.
Jack is a real nice person to talk to, is obviously very intelligent, and yet also very modest.
When I travelled with my Justis case, the people at immigration damaged my case by trying to force it to open. The snap was broken in half. Needless to say, I was very upset.
I called Jack right away, I was really impressed by not only his willingness to take care of my problem, but also how he took the extra efoorts to try make me feel better, and helped me to understand how the snaps were constructed.
Jack is also a great listener. I am sure he is very busy with orders and such, but he always takes his time to listen to what I have to say.
Thank you, Jack.
Richard
pharaoh68 said:
Thank you Gentlemen,
XBreaker
I think they really come to play with the dog and have me repair their shafts so I don't feel left out.
Brian, I love Paul Mottey's work but even Paul would admit many of his cues are like Szamboti clones. I don't hear you disparaging him for using classic design. Paul does Szamboti better than Barry, IMO. Many many cuemakers have used classic designs including some of your other heroes. Yet, you knock Ariel for making classic designed cues? There are lots of good cues available so I can sure understand your preferring some makers over others. What do you get out of running Ariel down? Did Ariel harm you in some way or did you happen to see a cue where an inlay was off?
Ariel's construction methods are better than most and improving lately with new machinery. The cues I've tried over the last 2 years play good with a firm hit. If they were of as poor quality as you say Brian, I wouldn't sell them. I've owned many highly desirable cues over the years including 2 Gus cues made for me in 1983 (and new Mottey 05). The Ariel cue I use plays as good or better than any cue I've owned to date. Besides, several pro players play with an Ariel and I doubt that would be the case if they were of as poor quality cue as you indicate. Could your frame of reference possibly be a cue with a wild East Coast pro taper...where it's "aim East, shoot West and hope for the best"?
Bash on Brian.
Cappy and Phillip, I'm glad you're happy with your Ariel cues. Thanks for saying so.
Martin
Ariel's construction methods are better than most and improving lately with new machinery. The cues I've tried over the last 2 years play good with a firm hit. If they were of as poor quality as you say Brian, I wouldn't sell them. I've owned many highly desirable cues over the years including 2 Gus cues made for me in 1983 (and new Mottey 05). The Ariel cue I use plays as good or better than any cue I've owned to date. Besides, several pro players play with an Ariel and I doubt that would be the case if they were of as poor quality cue as you indicate. Could your frame of reference possibly be a cue with a wild East Coast pro taper...where it's "aim East, shoot West and hope for the best"?
Bash on Brian.
Cappy and Phillip, I'm glad you're happy with your Ariel cues. Thanks for saying so.
Martin
pharaoh68 said:
Last edited:
pharaoh68
Banned
jazznpool said:
Jazznpool-
You are a longtime member of this community and, right up until this post, I was under the impression that you were one of the more knowledgable and reputable posters whose insight is respected. Now, I'm not quite so sure. What do I get from knocking Ariel's cues? Nothing. Not one damn thing. This isn't a knock of Ariel. He may be a great guy. I wouldn't know. i never met him. But I've held numerous cues he's constructed and my take is still the same: not impressive. Why? Are you saying I have to be impressed?!?! Why? I've seen Carmelis that are less than four years old with uneven points, less than stellar inlaying, and a number of other things. He seems to have a penchant for combining dark woods and, his original designs seem a little less than creative. I've seen a few of his hi-end cues that were below par in my opinion. You love him! You love his work! I know this because you share that opinion in every damn thread you start peddling his cues. I don't love his cues. I'm sharing that opinion here. Why do you get to throw in your $.02 and I don't??
That's the nature of this and many online forums. We are here to share our own insights, opinions, feelings, thoughts, etc. with one another. You sit there and rave that Carmeli and Prewitt cues are second to none. I disagree... strongly, I might add. That is my right. Just as much as it is your right to claim that they are among the best in the business!
Funny you should mention Mottey. Yes. He does classic design work and he does it well. However, make no mistake... as was illustrated in a conversation between myself and severla other AZ members just the other day, Mottey and White both have a Szamboti style with a very distinct look of their own. Those in the know can spot a Mottey from across a room. And yet despite their "classic designs" some of their original works are just that - unmistakably 100% original and unmistakably 100% Mottey shop.
Take a look. You'll see several "Szamboti-inspired cues plus a whole slew of distinct originals:
http://www.motteycues.com/index.htm
And jazz, you have to be kidding when you mention hit. I would think that by now, someone in your field (cuedealing) would recognize that hit is entirely subjective. And what do I care what pros use??? Does that mean I'm gonna run out and by a Mezz because Mika uses one?! Or a Lucasi because Jeremy Jones uses one? No. Because I don't get that kind of equipment for free (unlike these pros). I don't get deals of any kind. I pay money for the cues I use. As a result, I'd rather spend my money on cues that I feel are solidly crafted, beautiful in design and execution, and DON'T appear to have any major flaws. But hey. That's just me.
Quantifying cue "construction"
I see this is the new "buzz" word. What is it really? How would your "construction" be quantified, or better yet qualified? Carmeli, has new construction techniques, Skip has new construction techniques, Joe Blow from Idaho has new construction techniques? What does it mean, really? Does anyone really expect his cue to delaminate at the points while shooting? Or maybe the A-joint to break apart? Maybe the butt sleeve will slide off? How many people could recognize the difference? What is a real advantage?
Does coring really make cues hit consistent? Who determined what was inconsistent? How can people still shoot with original Balabushkas 40+ years after manufacture when the adhesives they had then are so poor compared to todays standards? Does that mean todays cues will last till the next millennium? Or a Balabushka is past its threshold and will disintegrate on the next use?
JV
I see this is the new "buzz" word. What is it really? How would your "construction" be quantified, or better yet qualified? Carmeli, has new construction techniques, Skip has new construction techniques, Joe Blow from Idaho has new construction techniques? What does it mean, really? Does anyone really expect his cue to delaminate at the points while shooting? Or maybe the A-joint to break apart? Maybe the butt sleeve will slide off? How many people could recognize the difference? What is a real advantage?
Does coring really make cues hit consistent? Who determined what was inconsistent? How can people still shoot with original Balabushkas 40+ years after manufacture when the adhesives they had then are so poor compared to todays standards? Does that mean todays cues will last till the next millennium? Or a Balabushka is past its threshold and will disintegrate on the next use?
JV
Of course your entitled to your cue preferences Brian. I have mine as well. My point is that you attacked Ariel for the same thing Mottey and others do. I could have ordered the design of the Ariel cue you mocked from a number of makers including Mottey. Would you have mocked it as a Mottey? Just seems to me you don't miss an opportunity to knock Ariel and his cues in a mean-spirited way--like he did you wrong somehow on a personal level.
Martin
Martin
pharaoh68 said:
pharaoh68
Banned
jazznpool said:
If you go back and read each post, you'll see that the original attack on Ariel that you are referring to above (copying designs) is NOT an attack on Ariel but an attack on the idiot who posted the Stouboti cue. I said from the onset that his original designs were unimpressive and unispired. I still feel that way. But there is one key word in there that you are overlooking: ORIGINAL. I recognize that they are his. I just don't see a lot of merit in them.
I was commenting that PoolSponge should have picked a cue that was an original design if he was going to defend Ariel's "original designs". Get it?
If I were going to defend Mottey's originals, I wouldn't use his feathers cue as an example.
From the beginning I have not once said that Ariel's cues are copies. I have said that they are unattractive, unimpressive, and that I don't care for the play. Get it straight.