CueTable Tournament - Who's in?

Colin Colenso said:
Match 1: Perk v Andrew Manning
Start your critique engines.......

Note: I had to remove spaces from url after they were PM'd to me. It seems to be working ok now. Thanks to Andrew for that tip.

Perk:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01(mz02bXG03YTE04dlF05l$*06Zw{07I{H08zro09TVn10Ry%11ekf12aaz13FaZ14I*l15EpF16QHo19!)O36QHoKRyLttRulXCmVRbYmMW$oaMhdTcmNBm!wq!W!!y&cByWtwwzy*D

Andrew Manning:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01(mz02bXG03YTE04dlF05l$*06Zw{07I{H08zro09TVn10Ry%11ekf12aaz13FaZ14I*l15EpF16QHo17wz;19!)O21(mz}EN22bXG|~G23YTEhcI24dlF}KH25l$*Czo26Zw{iCX27I{HC*i28zro}KN29TVnO;Q36QHoXgjXVEYgPU)DUgaZ^nKXyLnrREicOghsO&h}|PBv[HnVansRmpIyg;
Click to expand...


OK, I'll give it a shot. And remember, this comes from love :)

OUT PLAN SUCCESS ESTIMATE (OPSE): 20 points
PATH ACCURACY: 10 points
PATH SIMPLICITY: 10 points
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING : 10 points

PERK:

OPSE - Coming across the line on the leave for the 3 is a bit of a chance. However in A real game, if you didn't get perfect, you could always play the 6 and change your runout.

I think it might have actually been better to run past the 3 in the corner and play the 3 in the top side.

Other than that, great chance of success, I give OPSE 18.

PATH ACCURACY: 10
SIMPLICITY: 8 - same problem with the 3-ball
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING: 8 - problem balls are the 2 & 4. While your plan gets them out, it requires perfect speed on 2 shots. The leave for the 3 off the 7 and the leave for the 2 in the corner.

Total: 44

Andrew:
OPSE: 17 - The bump into the 9 to get perfect on the 2 reduces the the chance of running out. If the 9-ball is bumped slightly off, you could end up on the rail facing
a difficult 2-ball shot which might lead to being hooked behind the 10.

PATH ACCURACY: 10
SIMPLICITY: 7 - I think you made the last part of the out too complicated. If you had just followed the 4 up for a shot on the 5 in the side, then slid over for the 1 and just came off the rail for the 8 you would have an easier time of the last 4 balls.
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING: 8 - I really like the way you handled the 4, but not the two. I just think the bump into the 9 opens up too many potential problems.

Total: 42

Winner by a nose: PERK.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Match 1: Perk v Andrew Manning
Start your critique engines.......

Note: I had to remove spaces from url after they were PM'd to me. It seems to be working ok now. Thanks to Andrew for that tip.

Perk:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01(mz02bXG03YTE04dlF05l$*06Zw{07I{H08zro09TVn10Ry%11ekf12aaz13FaZ14I*l15EpF16QHo19!)O36QHoKRyLttRulXCmVRbYmMW$oaMhdTcmNBm!wq!W!!y&cByWtwwzy*D

Andrew Manning:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01(mz02bXG03YTE04dlF05l$*06Zw{07I{H08zro09TVn10Ry%11ekf12aaz13FaZ14I*l15EpF16QHo17wz;19!)O21(mz}EN22bXG|~G23YTEhcI24dlF}KH25l$*Czo26Zw{iCX27I{HC*i28zro}KN29TVnO;Q36QHoXgjXVEYgPU)DUgaZ^nKXyLnrREicOghsO&h}|PBv[HnVansRmpIyg;
Click to expand...

Neither looks too bad, but I gotta give this one to Andrew (I'm in DC but I don't know him). I don't like starting with the 7 to the 3, which seems likely to go pretty bad if you don't get pinpoint shape (there is some margin of error in that the 3 can go in the side or corner). Perk's final sequence of 4-5-1 seems a bit risky, too: risk of bad shape on 4 ==> worse shape on 5 ==> hooked on 1.

Were I playing, I might have focused more early on the trouble balls (4,1,6,2) than Perk or Andrew, but it would require more going up and down the table (yet more margin for error overall, IMHO), shooting 3-6-2-4-1-5-7-8. The 7 isn't really a great last ball, but you just have to get the cue to the middle of the table. And the only tight shape is the 6 to the 2.

Cory
 
Match 4 Solutions

Match 4 Solutions
Captain JR v thoffen

Captain JR:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01R~h02rzU03rDP04G}$05RYj06Fx$07NOh08N^R09XIf10we%11jaC12LZ%13pNG14Fv{15FfL16fZw17OHn19!)O20k~%36fZwHn&DtXOZlVo{TfpM&aOE$R}zF^RD*}b{Nb{Nn*rnb;kq!kkWlB%u|gswlfzPPW)

thoffen:
http://CueTable.com/P/?01R~h02rzU03rDP04G}$05RYj06Fx&07NOh08N^R09XIf10we%11jUH12LZ%13pNG14Fj%15FfL16fZw19!)O20k~%24G}$GQ(HnBJ]^26Fx&Hvh28N^RDCg29XIfDBq30we%}EI31jUHhcK32LZ%C{s33pNG|~M34Fj%Chw35FfLDOc36fZwHV!C~FFT*F(;FrPUvqMAyeHHvmSrZHj{AkkSkeuogRXyMb^}O[|RTv

I'm just waiting on BillYards solution now.

Perhaps we'll do the judging by public consensus to a degree. I'm the final decision maker. Feel free to give comparative scores for the match solutions.
 

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Colin Colenso said:
...I'm the final decision maker...
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Colin, did anyone ever tell you that your avatar is a great looking picture of you? You're one good looking guy! Also, I find it fascinating and intriguing that you're able to adapt and flourish in a totally foreign country! Also, have I ever mentioned that you come across as a very learned and highly intellectual man from your posts? ;) :D ;)

Butt-kissing aside...I have to buy more powder for my hands for my next match (if there is a next match). I had a rough time moving my mouse with all my perspiration on my palms. It almost caused me to miss the 15 ball! :p
 
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scottycoyote said:
gets angry with current cyber pool league and breaks away to start his own cyber pool league:cool:
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jeez man, the selection process was fair and transparent:D

We'll be holding 4 qualifier to join the Cue Table Pool Tour (CTPT) during the week for just 2k entry so stop whining:mad: ....:p

btw: Some great critiques guys, keep them coming.

I'll just have to copy and paste for my final judgement.

Despite the hard work, I'm glad to say that the final result is what I hoped for. An effective way to analyze OUT PLANNING and a bit of incentive to put some thought into it.

Now I actually have some time to start looking at the solutions.

Note: When copying and pasting the URL's, be careful to get rid of spaces as the address bar will chop off sections of the code.
 
Although I don't much like mnShooter's choice to get from the 9 down to the 11, he isn't getting himself in too much trouble if he's a little off angle, and he'll be close to the OB he's shooting.

I think jsp has the right idea in taking care of the 11 early and leaving himself with balls up table when he shoots the 9, I really do not like the reverse cut on the 11 with speed control necessary and potential blockers. He should have followed all the way across to take out the 11 first. The three rail shot on the 13 is totally unnecessary and can break the run.

Advantage mnShooter for sure.
 
jsp said:
Colin, did anyone ever tell you that your avatar is a great looking picture of you? You're one good looking guy! Also, I find it fascinating and intriguing that you're able to adapt and flourish in a totally foreign country! Also, have I ever mentioned that you come across as a very learned and highly intellectual man from your posts? ;) :D ;)

Butt-kissing aside...I have to buy more powder for my hands for my next match (if there is a next match). I had a rough time moving my mouse with all my perspiration on my palms. It almost caused me to miss the 15 ball! :p
Click to expand...

Cash talks all languages buddy:D

Now I gotta get this CTPT a sponsor and prizes so I can gets me some leverage :eek: ...:p
 
Okay, I'll weigh in. This isn't quite the in-depth analysis you asked for Colin; more of a risk analysis of the proposed runs.

mnShooter vs. jsp

I find these two runs too close to call. The drawback I see with mnShooter's run is the 10-12-15 sequence; getting a little out of position on the 12 means having a very tough time getting on the right side of the 15.

The drawback I see with jsp's run is the 11-to-15 position is very touchy to achieve; without the perfect amount of low english/stroke, you could go into the 6 or 3, and possibly hook yourself. Then the three-rail shot from 13-to-12 is very risky; if you run into the 7, 4, or 5, you really don't know where you'll end up.

CaptainJR vs. thoffen

I have to give this to CaptainJR, because I think thoffen's first shot isn't going to work how he wants. Coming off the four at that angle, he'll be going into the rail and then hitting the 15 instead of going around it. He might find himself up a creek after this shot. Also, if he's an inch out of position for the shot on the 12 ball, that shot's just not possible. Too little margin for error there.

The only drawback I see with CaptainJR's is that with the speed he hits the 4 ball on the first shot, there's a good chance he'll leave the 4 blocking the 8.

Just some gut reactions; I realize all my comments were negative, but that's just because I was looking at it from a risk standpoint, not because the runs aren't good.

-Andrew
 
Hitting the bottom of the 15 is OK because it will knock it toward the center of the table into an easier shot later on. If you open up the WEI table and redraw the path of the CB you'll see there's more room for the CB to go underneath it than it initially appears, though. I think the worst thing you can do in this situation is leave the 4 in front of the 8. That's why I made my choice. The reason I chose to draw into the 6 is to increase my chances of leaving a path for the bank on the 8 in case the 4 didn't get out of the way completely, e.g. hitting the combo too thick.

OK that'll be the only defense of my out :)
 
The only crappy part about this is that, sure you might be able to figure out how to run a decent rack looking at it for a while but who can actually execute it?
 
DUOBIS said:
The only crappy part about this is that, sure you might be able to figure out how to run a decent rack looking at it for a while but who can actually execute it?
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I think the point is to improve one's vision for planning. Even quite ordinary cueists with good planning can make a lot more outs than a quality cueist who plans poorly.

It is quite exhausting mentally to consider all these things before every shot, so it makes sense to practice it, and train the mind to formularize focus areas and quickly recognize high percentage patterns.

Top chess players spend 8+ hours a day doing exercises to train their mind before big events.

Sure...execution is important. Players need to spend a lot of time on that also.

btw: Good comments Andrew and thoffen!
Players should explain their choices and severely critique their opponents :D

That match between JR and thoffen was a tough layout. I'd also have been tempted to go a bit wild and hope for a bit of luck on the 15.
 
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I am getting my solution ready! Sorry for the delay... I had a horrendous commute home and am now downloading Shockwave to get access to the Wei table... bear with me... this is a one time setup....
 
BillYards,
I've got your code but it's not working for me. Seems too short. Nothing shows on the table:
Pls check:
http://CueTable.com/P/?#01;xP02j{*03IOJ04MKt05L(*06Y)w07YIQ08)OX09i*j10M&%20]11&ft12agk13s|s14WmK15pDZ16sE}19!)O#
 
Colin Colenso said:
Players should explain their choices...
Click to expand...
Alright, so if we're encouraged to explain the methods to our madness...

First off, I think the 12 ball is the best key ball for the 8. You can get pretty much any angle on the 12 ball, such that you have an option of pocketing the 8 in either the top left corner or bottom left corner.

I see I'm getting no love for my 3-railer to get on the key ball. I don't think it's as risky as other might suggest, considering the big landing window for the 12 ball. All you need is a stun shot with some right spin, and the 3 rails will help the CB slow down before you can get into any trouble behind the 3. Besides, don't I get any "style" points for incorporating a 3-rail shot as part of my solution? :cool:
 
my critiques

Perk vs. Andrew Manning

This is a close one. Both solutions require precise positioning for one if it's shots. For Perk, the crucial positioning is getting on the 1, which is used as the key ball. If you fall too long or too short after pocketing the 5 ball, you can either snooker yourself behind the 8 or be too far for a decent cut shot on the 1.

As for Andrew's route, the critical positioning is getting on the 4 ball. You need to be almost exactly straight on the 4 to the bottom right corner such that you get a decent shot on the 1. However, if you do get a crooked angle on the 4, you do have the option of hitting the 5 before the 1.

I'd have to give the nod to Andrew, since I feel the 5 ball is the proper key ball.

*****
Captain JR vs. thoffen

Also a close one. Nothing completely wrong with both of their routes, except maybe for the first shot. In order for the 4 to go comletely out of the 8's way after the combination, you'd have to hit the 4 fairly hard. Because of the thin cut on the 4, the CB will be traveling a bit after contact with the 4. In JR's run, I don't know if the CB will stop at point "A" as diagrammed, but i'd guess it would end up closer to the 9 ball. As for thoffen, i like the idea of using the 6 to stop hold the CB in place, but the window to fit the CB between the rail and the 15 seems a bit too small. He runs the risk of tying up the 15 and 6.

Close call, but I'd give the slight edge to JR, since he chose a less risky way of getting to the 10 ball.
 
Match 3- As for my out I think the key ball here is the 13. If you come up short you will not be able to get straight on the 9 and will have a tough time getting out. All the rest are very simple shots and shape.

JSP's is quite a bit different then mine. I see two potential run ending shots. One is drawing off the 11 for the 15. First you would have to get almost a perfect angle on the 11. Then you have to get past the 6 and the 3 or else you will have to shoot the twelve and then run the three balls on the other side of the table. The three railer is pretty do-able but could also be messed up easily.

After looking at JSP's and my out I think another good way to get out would be 10-12-14-11-9-15-13-8.

I don't think there is a perfect way to do this rack. Any way you do it you will have at least one ball where you need perfect shape to get out.
 
Since it seems we're all explaining our outs, here goes mine:

I identified the 2, and especially the 1, as problem balls. My first priority in the out was to make sure I'd have an easy time getting shape on the 1. The 4 ball is the only ball that I considered a good key ball for the 1, so I decided 4-1 should be part of the sequence. Also I identified the 5 as my key ball for the 8, and the 6 as my key ball for the 2. So I had 3-6-2, 4-1, and 5-8 already in mind as "groups". The only ball left on the table was the 7, and there's a fairly easy shot to use the 7 between 3-6-2 and 4-1, so I had 3-6-2-7-4-1-5-8.

I tried to make all my position routes simple, never having to juice the ball, and none of these shots require much stroke. The reason I decided to use the 9 as a "stopper" ball off the 6 is that if I don't consciously go into it, there's a chance I could end up behind it. It's a perfect 90-degree stun shot off the tangent line from the 6 to go dead into the 9 at slow speed, stopping the cue ball right there.

-Andrew
 
I really don't want to be a judge of others but I'll defend mine a little.

The first shot seems to be the issue. The reason I did it the way I did was because of the 4 ball. If I make this thinner cut on the 4 it won't be hitting the 14 so full and will have more speed coming off the rail to make sure not to get in the way of the 8 ball. It will also send the 14 toward center pocket rather than taking the chance on a fuller shot to try to get the cue ball around the 15.


Added later. I didn't want to cut other players out but I really need to say that I avoid hitting other balls like the plague. Very chancy trying to hit the 6 perfect like that.
 
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