Semi 1: Gonna have to go with JSP here. Theoffen would definitely get in some trouble shooting the 2 ball last if he didn't have that professional stroke, although he does leave himself quite a few backup shots throughout the out. JSP really has no backup shots but all shots are relatively simple except for the five(could have a hard time getting on the 4).
CueTable Tournament - Who's in?
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
Can someone check to see if they can use the Wei table right now...
I sent my solution to Colin last night after verifying that it worked... it does not work today, nor can I get the original code for the two matches to display...
Today, I don't get any balls showing on the table at all when I paste Colin's links in...
I sent my solution to Colin last night after verifying that it worked... it does not work today, nor can I get the original code for the two matches to display...
Today, I don't get any balls showing on the table at all when I paste Colin's links in...
BillYards said:
Yeah, seems the Cuetable has a problem.
We can either wait for it to be fixed.....god knows how long that might take, or you and Perk could do the table diagrams in paintbrush and attach them here. (Let me know if you need instructions).
Cue Ball lines are usually all that's needed to work out what's going on.
I am unable to use any software like that here at work. If it comes back up today, my code is in your pm box Colin. If not, I will try to work on it after work in Paint. I knew I shouldnt of closed that damn window on my home pc before I left for work. Could of just copied and pasted...argh...
Ok, I'll try the code tomorrow, my time. Falling asleep right now.Perk said:
Hopefully it will work then.
Cheers,
Colin
out #2 explained
Solids seem like the clear choice. Two problem balls that had to be addressed, the 7 and 6. The 3 is a good ball to get position to pocket the 7 immediately in the lower side. However, to sink the 6 in the upper left corner, you need almost perfect positioning on the 5 such that you're almost straight in to the bottom left corner. You can't guarantee that positioning going from the 7 to the 5, especially if you're on the wrong side of the 7,
The 2 ball, however, looks like a great ball to drop underneath the 6 ball providing you pocket the 2 in the lower side. Therefore, after pocketing the 7, I chose the 5-4-1 path to drop on the 2 ball. My positioning on the 2 ball doesn't have to be exact, because I have the top left corner and top side to pocket the 6. And once pocketing the 6, I'm right there for position on the 8.
I chose my path because it allows the most room for positioning error. And to please the critics, I chose no 3-rail patters.
Solids seem like the clear choice. Two problem balls that had to be addressed, the 7 and 6. The 3 is a good ball to get position to pocket the 7 immediately in the lower side. However, to sink the 6 in the upper left corner, you need almost perfect positioning on the 5 such that you're almost straight in to the bottom left corner. You can't guarantee that positioning going from the 7 to the 5, especially if you're on the wrong side of the 7,
The 2 ball, however, looks like a great ball to drop underneath the 6 ball providing you pocket the 2 in the lower side. Therefore, after pocketing the 7, I chose the 5-4-1 path to drop on the 2 ball. My positioning on the 2 ball doesn't have to be exact, because I have the top left corner and top side to pocket the 6. And once pocketing the 6, I'm right there for position on the 8.
I chose my path because it allows the most room for positioning error. And to please the critics, I chose no 3-rail patters.
The only comments I have for thoffen and jsp are:
In thoffen's pattern, I would have used a stop shot (or slight draw to take the 2 in the side for one rail to the 8.
In jsp's route, the cut on the 4 looks a little steep to get the leave on the one that he wants....
They both shot the 6 in the upper left corner, but I would rather drift below the 2 after shooting the 7, pocket the 5 and 6 in the same corner and move to the 4, 1, 2 (in the side) out.
Tough to call this match. I am certain that the differences are because each person has a clear vision of which shots they are more comfortable shooting (i.e. one guy likes to use the rails more for position, another guy likes precision draw shots, etc...)
In thoffen's pattern, I would have used a stop shot (or slight draw to take the 2 in the side for one rail to the 8.
In jsp's route, the cut on the 4 looks a little steep to get the leave on the one that he wants....
They both shot the 6 in the upper left corner, but I would rather drift below the 2 after shooting the 7, pocket the 5 and 6 in the same corner and move to the 4, 1, 2 (in the side) out.
Tough to call this match. I am certain that the differences are because each person has a clear vision of which shots they are more comfortable shooting (i.e. one guy likes to use the rails more for position, another guy likes precision draw shots, etc...)
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Touche jsp. My path explanation:
The 6 ball is the biggest problem ball in this layout. It only has one possible pocket, so it is important to try and knock it out early. If you mess up in the early goings, you can still shoot at other balls until you get back in line. Getting a good angle on the 7 makes this job really easy. If you run too far you can just shoot the 2 in the side first. Big position zone on the 5, and a good angle on the 6 isn't really necessary since you have open balls at this point.
After you fall on the 6, it's smooth sailing. The 2 ball might look a little funny going in the corner, but it's the most ingenius shot of the layout. Why? The position to get in the side to fall on the 6 would have to be pinpoint. The position zone going from the 2 down to the 8 is massive. Absolutely huge. All you have to do is get anywhere somewhat close to straight in and roll it down with pocket speed. The 8 is in a good spot. You don't need to get pinpoint on it if you're off angle. Since you're shooting it with pocket speed, it will fall if you hit it bad. Hit it a little in the rail? No problem. Overcut it and you'll just kiss it in off the 13.
Here's something to consider. Say you mess up somewhere and miss or play a safety. Would you want the 6 being the last ball left. Say your opponent blows the out. The 2 ball is pretty wide open to the corner and can be made or at least struck from almost anywhere on the table. Not so with the 6.
Let's say you get out of line on one of your last 3 shots for jsp. You're completely hosed. If you don't get the right angle from the 1 to the 2, you're facing a tough situation. You're likely to snooker yourself, leave yourself on the rail, or come too far and have way too much cut to slow up the cue ball for a shot on the 6. Taking the 6 out early when you have a backup plan is the only option here.
Edit: For Bill. If you get the right angle and would rather play the 2 in the side, then go for it! Playing it in the corner gives you a bigger target position, so at least it's a solid backup plan and shows another good option for completing the out.
The 6 ball is the biggest problem ball in this layout. It only has one possible pocket, so it is important to try and knock it out early. If you mess up in the early goings, you can still shoot at other balls until you get back in line. Getting a good angle on the 7 makes this job really easy. If you run too far you can just shoot the 2 in the side first. Big position zone on the 5, and a good angle on the 6 isn't really necessary since you have open balls at this point.
After you fall on the 6, it's smooth sailing. The 2 ball might look a little funny going in the corner, but it's the most ingenius shot of the layout. Why? The position to get in the side to fall on the 6 would have to be pinpoint. The position zone going from the 2 down to the 8 is massive. Absolutely huge. All you have to do is get anywhere somewhat close to straight in and roll it down with pocket speed. The 8 is in a good spot. You don't need to get pinpoint on it if you're off angle. Since you're shooting it with pocket speed, it will fall if you hit it bad. Hit it a little in the rail? No problem. Overcut it and you'll just kiss it in off the 13.
Here's something to consider. Say you mess up somewhere and miss or play a safety. Would you want the 6 being the last ball left. Say your opponent blows the out. The 2 ball is pretty wide open to the corner and can be made or at least struck from almost anywhere on the table. Not so with the 6.
Let's say you get out of line on one of your last 3 shots for jsp. You're completely hosed. If you don't get the right angle from the 1 to the 2, you're facing a tough situation. You're likely to snooker yourself, leave yourself on the rail, or come too far and have way too much cut to slow up the cue ball for a shot on the 6. Taking the 6 out early when you have a backup plan is the only option here.
Edit: For Bill. If you get the right angle and would rather play the 2 in the side, then go for it! Playing it in the corner gives you a bigger target position, so at least it's a solid backup plan and shows another good option for completing the out.
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Great explanation thoffen! You're correct that if you go too steep an angle for the 5, then you can stop shot on the 2 first and have perfect positioning for the 5-6. But once you shoot the 2, your key ball to the 8 is gone.thoffen said:
I agree though that your route is the safest route to take provided you get exact positioning on the 7 and 5 balls. You do want to get the 6 out of the way as soon as possible, and your route accomplish that. If my CB happened to fall exactly where you showed it for position on the 7, then your route is the route I would have taken. However, if I got too awkward of a position on the 5 ball to drop for the 6, then I would then revert to my route instead of shooting the 2 first in the side...because like you said, the 2 is the most important ball of the whole rack.
Good luck in the judging! Maybe you bribed Colin with more money than I did.
Not feisty, really. Both of us I think picked some really solid choices, so we have to do our best to explain them. Good luck jsp!
P.S. I didn't bribe Colin with money. Your bribe can't touch the stripper I sent to his house. Wait. Come to think of it, your bribe probably is touching that stripper right now!
P.S. I didn't bribe Colin with money. Your bribe can't touch the stripper I sent to his house. Wait. Come to think of it, your bribe probably is touching that stripper right now!
To Billyards and Perk,
The cuetable software is still not working, so if we want to continue, could you copy the table I placed earlier in this thread and draw your lines using paintbrush or similar graphics editor.
You can either e-mail it to me via the email address in my User Profile or just post here as an attachement.
The cuetable software is still not working, so if we want to continue, could you copy the table I placed earlier in this thread and draw your lines using paintbrush or similar graphics editor.
You can either e-mail it to me via the email address in my User Profile or just post here as an attachement.
Semi-Final 1 Judgement
Semi Final 1
thoffen v jsp
thoffen
OUT PLAN SUCCESS ESTIMATE (OPSE): 20 points
I see your thinking with getting rid of the potentially tricky 6 early, but it relies on a near perfect position from 3 to the 7 ball to the 5 ball, which could easily go wrong I feel. But not a bad idea to set this as your ideal beginning and then adjust if you finish a bit short or long after playing your first shot, the 3 ball.
For your finish, I think you moved the CB around more than you needed to by playing the 1 and 2 balls into the left corner pockets. If either of these shots gets 6 inches out of position line, the out would become very tricky.
You said the margin on the 2 is huge, but I think you've only got about a 6 inch margin here . Long and you're in big trouble, short and you'll start needing to load up with IE, or accept a fine cut on the 8 to finish.
To me, playing the 1 into the top right or top center requires almost no travel and would leave easy position for the 2 into the bottom center with an easy angle to get on the 8.
Still, overall your out looks a pretty good chance: 16 points
PATH ACCURACY: 10 points
Paths look ok: 10 points
PATH SIMPLICITY: 10 points
I think more running that is needed for 1 and 2 ball: 8 points
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING : 10 points
Got rid of the 6 early but could have found trouble getting to the 8: 9 points
Total: 43 Points.
jsp
OUT PLAN SUCCESS ESTIMATE (OPSE): 20 points
jsp decides to leave the 6 ball to the end, but considering his pattern from 1 to 2 ball, it would be hard to mess this up as anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 ball rolls through from the 2 to the 6 ball with a good angle to play for the 8-ball.
But I think jsp plans for the CB to be too close to the rail for his shot to the 5 ball. It would have been easy to play to be straighter on the 5 and then stun back just left of the 14 for a friendlier angle on the 4 ball.
I really like the 4, 1, 2, 6 finish. Hard to mess this up, especially as the 1 can go in the top right or center, so position from the 4 isn't too crucial: 18 points
PATH ACCURACY: 10 points
Lines from the 5 and 4 balls not likely: 8 points
PATH SIMPLICITY: 10 points
Order is great, but line choice for playing 5 troubles me: 9 points
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING : 10 points
Clever way to deal with the 6 and 8: 9 points
Total: 44 points
I prefer the finishing solution by jsp, but he almost messed it up by leaving an accute angle on the 5 when he didn't need to.
Getting on the 6 early would be a good idea, as 2 direct to 8 would be an easy finishing route, but playing for position on the 5 between the 2 and the 14 seems unecessarily risky to me. Yes the 2 ball would act as a saver, but the 2 is part of what I think is the best finishing pattern, the 4, 1, 2.
jsp gets it by a nose. Just my preference / estimation of course.
Thanks to both for the participation and explanations. I tried to take them into consideration.
Colin
Semi Final 1
thoffen v jsp
thoffen
OUT PLAN SUCCESS ESTIMATE (OPSE): 20 points
I see your thinking with getting rid of the potentially tricky 6 early, but it relies on a near perfect position from 3 to the 7 ball to the 5 ball, which could easily go wrong I feel. But not a bad idea to set this as your ideal beginning and then adjust if you finish a bit short or long after playing your first shot, the 3 ball.
For your finish, I think you moved the CB around more than you needed to by playing the 1 and 2 balls into the left corner pockets. If either of these shots gets 6 inches out of position line, the out would become very tricky.
You said the margin on the 2 is huge, but I think you've only got about a 6 inch margin here . Long and you're in big trouble, short and you'll start needing to load up with IE, or accept a fine cut on the 8 to finish.
To me, playing the 1 into the top right or top center requires almost no travel and would leave easy position for the 2 into the bottom center with an easy angle to get on the 8.
Still, overall your out looks a pretty good chance: 16 points
PATH ACCURACY: 10 points
Paths look ok: 10 points
PATH SIMPLICITY: 10 points
I think more running that is needed for 1 and 2 ball: 8 points
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING : 10 points
Got rid of the 6 early but could have found trouble getting to the 8: 9 points
Total: 43 Points.
jsp
OUT PLAN SUCCESS ESTIMATE (OPSE): 20 points
jsp decides to leave the 6 ball to the end, but considering his pattern from 1 to 2 ball, it would be hard to mess this up as anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 ball rolls through from the 2 to the 6 ball with a good angle to play for the 8-ball.
But I think jsp plans for the CB to be too close to the rail for his shot to the 5 ball. It would have been easy to play to be straighter on the 5 and then stun back just left of the 14 for a friendlier angle on the 4 ball.
I really like the 4, 1, 2, 6 finish. Hard to mess this up, especially as the 1 can go in the top right or center, so position from the 4 isn't too crucial: 18 points
PATH ACCURACY: 10 points
Lines from the 5 and 4 balls not likely: 8 points
PATH SIMPLICITY: 10 points
Order is great, but line choice for playing 5 troubles me: 9 points
PROBLEM BALL HANDLING : 10 points
Clever way to deal with the 6 and 8: 9 points
Total: 44 points
I prefer the finishing solution by jsp, but he almost messed it up by leaving an accute angle on the 5 when he didn't need to.
Getting on the 6 early would be a good idea, as 2 direct to 8 would be an easy finishing route, but playing for position on the 5 between the 2 and the 14 seems unecessarily risky to me. Yes the 2 ball would act as a saver, but the 2 is part of what I think is the best finishing pattern, the 4, 1, 2.
jsp gets it by a nose. Just my preference / estimation of course.
Thanks to both for the participation and explanations. I tried to take them into consideration.
Colin
Attachments
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Second Look
OK... As a draftsman by trade, I had to make a second look... though I am using a severely limited drawing program, this blow-up shows that a centerball hit is possible or very close to possible for the 14 ball. That means that the cueball does have enough room to pocket the 14 since you would be cutting the ball by aiming on a line on an angle farther away from the 4.
Good eye, Perk. When I drew the lines on the Wei table, I was sure it did not work, but I stand corrected.
OK... As a draftsman by trade, I had to make a second look... though I am using a severely limited drawing program, this blow-up shows that a centerball hit is possible or very close to possible for the 14 ball. That means that the cueball does have enough room to pocket the 14 since you would be cutting the ball by aiming on a line on an angle farther away from the 4.
Good eye, Perk. When I drew the lines on the Wei table, I was sure it did not work, but I stand corrected.
Attachments
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