I'm with you, I am watching the video posted by JB in the first post of this thread.
I don't see a bounce or the camera moving.
curving an object ball....
- Thread starter John Brumback
- Start date
I'm with you, I am watching the video posted by JB in the first post of this thread.
I don't see a bounce or the camera moving.
Brumback got a hold of me today and wanted to know when we can do some video of him banking and bending the ball. So, I will be taking some video with John Brumback banking the balls. He says he is getting some new cloth so I hope to get down there right after it is put on, I hope to see the ball bend but absolutely know one way or another what is happening. If well struck banked balls bend we will see it. Bank on John Brumback.
What are the odds that the camera is undoubtedly moving before and after the shot, but completely still for that split second of slow motion?
You could make the argument that the movement of the camera is not significant enough to affect the viewing angle of the shot, but it is completely unreasonable to argue that, somehow, whatever was holding up the camera happened to stop moving at the exact moment the video cuts to slow motion.
Banks
Banned
Of course it wouldn't be for consistency and accuracy. :bash:
Of course not. We are talking about testing. One can keep shooting over and over until one gets the right take. If Brumback is really the only one who can do this shot, why would anyone buy his instructional DVD?
Thank you kindly.
Banks
Banned
Then go ahead and record thirty shots, go over them and then hope you get a good one.
Thank you kindly.
Not sure if you like trolling or what. Did he say he was the only one? I guess i don't read as well as you do.
Thank you kindly.
I think the movement at the beginning of the shot could be the camera's auto-focus picking up John getting down on the shot. I also don't see any bounce, but then, holding a sheet of paper up to the screen, I dan't see any curve either.
Lou Figueroa
I think the new cloth is key. After a table has been recovered is the only time that I can remember seeing anything looking remotely like a curving action, when a ball is hit smartly and it comes off a rail on new cloth -- almost a bowling ball kind of action.
Lou Figueroa
I think that John and yourself deserve some kind of award for this effort. Pool is likely to gain some worthwhile understanding of our game. Not many other pros that I know of has come on AZB and shared the kind of stuff that John has. Well done!
I'm going to call it "hooking" next time And I'm going to try it with some long cross corners. I think it will show up more and or better.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
)
I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
)I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
I'm going to call it "hooking" next time And I'm going to try it with some long cross corners. I think it will show up more and or better.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
That would be the best course of action.
It's the stroke that's the key and if you don't know how to stroke, you'll never get a ball to curve off a rail. I've had a ball curve off the second rail, but not the first, and it's was the stroke that made it happen.
Until one understands and controls, and I mean finely control the speed and angle of the cue, you don't know what a stroke is.
The stroke is where the magic happens. It's the thing the separates the good players from the best players.
I'm going to call it "hooking" next time And I'm going to try it with some long cross corners. I think it will show up more and or better.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
I don't really have to know if the ball curves, bends, hooks, or whatever, but I do know that what you show in your DVD makes me a better banker. For that I thank you.
For Dr. Dave, I do find your analysis interesting but have to wonder how much the shooter matters. Just because you can't make something happen doesn't mean it's impossible.
Bottom line, I appreciate both of your posts, but if I'm going to shell out money for a DVD or lessons it's going to go to Mr Brumback.
I'm going to call it "hooking" next time And I'm going to try it with some long cross corners. I think it will show up more and or better.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
Sir,
You don't have to give it away if you're not ready.
Just show what you can do & you will have all those that really & truly want to play better paying to find out how you do what you can do.
For those that want 'scientific reasons' why THEY can not do such things they can look to others to satisfy their hurt egos.
Please don't get driven away like so many other very good playing professional players have in the past.
Some of us respect the playing ability of such & are eager to learn even a smidgen of something to perhaps close the gaps between us & the likes of great players.
All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
:thumbup2: DITTO!
If Dave is correct, you might want to call it "Straightening". 
Either way, you are THE BANK KING!
JoeyA
Either way, you are THE BANK KING!
JoeyA
I'm going to call it "hooking" next time And I'm going to try it with some long cross corners. I think it will show up more and or better.
I might be wrong but I really do think it takes the correct "stroking method" . ( that I have not see on the other vids by the way)
On second thought...I'm not real sure about giving away my methods and not getting any credit for them. ( i know,I'm an ass
I might just scrap the whole thing and let people think what they want too. John B.
I look forward to seeing convincing post-rebound curve. I also look forward to a better understanding of what equipment conditions and what type of hit results in the most curve. I am also curious if John would be able to get the ball to curve on the equipment I tested (Connelly, Valley, Gold Crown), which did not have brand new and tight cloth.
Regards,
Dave
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Please use a tripod so there is no camera motion before, during, or after the shot (just to eliminate one possible variable). Also try to get different views, with the camera zoomed up as close as possible for the best visual quality. A perfectly-overhead view would be the best if possible (to limit misleading perspective effects). A view looking horizontally from the pocket straight down the line of the incoming banked ball would also be useful (to clearly see both the hops and curve).
Again, I look forward to seeing the best John or others can do.
Happy filming,
Dave
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>>>>>>:thumbup:<<<<<<<
I also think it is clear that John's shot is bouncing (probably several times), but it also clear (despite the limited-resolution and camera angle of the video) that the ball is not bouncing very high. This makes me wonder if the OB actually hits the rail slightly airborne. Alternatively, the cushion nose height on John's table might be lower than on the tables I tested. Regardless, the limited bouncing might be a key to getting a noticeable curve (in addition to having brand new, tight, and slick cloth). Normally, a high-speed bank shot results in the OB hopping quite since the cushion nose is above the center of the ball. The nose pushes down on the ball with large force as the ball compresses the cushion. When the ball gets driven down into the table (with large force), the ball jumps into the air. And during the initial large-force bounce, any topspin and/or masse spin imparted to the ball from the cushion could "take" immediately. And if there is no curving spin remaining on the ball after the first hard bounce off the table, there won't be any curving when the ball lands (maybe bounces again) and heads to the pocket. Having new and slick cloth could also help limit how much curving spin is lost during the first hard bounce.
When I was filming, I actually tried a range of cue elevations, speeds, and tip-contact-point heights to get the OB to hit the cushion at different heights, but I was still not able to see any noticeable curve with any of the shots on the equipment I tested.
Regardless, I still think the cushion-nose height and/or ball height at impact could be important in getting a oticeable and usable (in a practical sense) amount of curve.
Regards,
Dave
To be clear, I have never said it is iimpossible to curve the post-rebound path of a banked ball. On the contrary, I think there are compelling physical reasons to convince me that the ball should absolutely curve after landing. However, I have never seen a convincing demonstration (by me or others) that the ball can curve an amount large enough to be of practical use on a range of typical pool equipment. Honestly, I hope John can post a convincing video, and I hope I (and others) can learn something useful from that.If Dave is correct, you might want to call it "Straightening".
Either way, you are THE BANK KING!
Also, I have never been purposely disrespectful to John. He is obvioulsy one of the best bankers in the world (and maybe even throughout human history), and I have tremendous respect for (and envy of) his ability to bank with such amazing consistency and accuracy. I still don't think this requires any "special" sort of stroke, but it does require tremendous intuition, feel, knowledge, and focus built up from countless hours of dedicated practice and competition.
Again, I honestly look forward to seeing a clear and convincing demonstration (from John or others) of an amount of curve that can actually be useful in practical game situations.
Regards,
Dave
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