Cushions for Brunswick Alexandria

realkingcobra said:
That table was only available as a snooker table or a billiard table, but could be bought as a combination table as well....the combination being either snooker or billiards, by changing the rails from one to the other, but the slates would have had to have had the pockets cut out in them in the first place to begin with.
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Here are images of the slates corner and side....I don't know if you can deduce anything from them but a picture worth a 1000 words:grin:

The Center pocket measures 4.500-4.600 on the slate cutout at it's widest part 4.125 at it's narrowest.

Snooker dimensions?

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After using a jewelers loop and reading some imprint on the cushions they are original Monarchs patent date August 1892. I think this table is original as it was manufactured back then.
 
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Fast996 said:
After using a jewelers loop and reading some imprint on the cushions they are original Monarchs patent date August 1892. I think this table is original as it was manufactured back then.
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Today's Superspeed cushions bear the same patent date, but the original Monarch cushions measured 1 1/8" across the top of the cushion from the nose to the wood sub rail they were glued to. Later they were made at 1 3/16th" in the 80's, then again at 1 1/4" for the last width change in the later 90's. I'll say it again, last time....those rails were billiards rails that someone cut down and and tried turning them into snooker rails....but while all snooker rails only have ONE sight per rail....and NOT placed anywhere close to a diamond system position....because the sights on the left and right side rails at the head end of the table....are in line with the D head string for breaking, and the left and right rails at the foot of the table....place the sights in line with racking the 15 red balls. Now billiard rails on the other hand, have 7 sights per side rail, 9 if they're placing a sight at both ends of the side rail in line with the end rails for counting purposes only, the 7th sight on a side rail is dead center of where the side pocket would be. End rails have either 3 or 5 sights, with the 2 extra being placed in line with the side rail giving each of the 4 corners of the rails 2 sights each close together to count as the corner sight.
 
It also looks to me like there's an indication that there was a rail bolt in the center of the side pocket cut out, it looks like you can see the tail end of where it was drilled out for the rail bolts to go in depth wise, but filled in to cover up the hole left behind after cutting out the pocket in the slate.
 
"Today's Superspeed cushions bear the same patent date, but the original Monarch cushions measured 1 1/8" across the top of the cushion from the nose to the wood sub rail they were glued to."

1 1/8" it is.
 
Fast996 said:
"Today's Superspeed cushions bear the same patent date, but the original Monarch cushions measured 1 1/8" across the top of the cushion from the nose to the wood sub rail they were glued to."

1 1/8" it is.
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I don't know what idea you're still hanging on to but those are not original rails in the configuration of being snooker rails. Someone turned that table into an amateur project of t4ying to turn it into something that it was not original designed to be, at this stage it's a Frankenstein table of no value. So the real question is, what are you wanting to do with the table as an end result?
 
realkingcobra said:
I don't know what idea you're still hanging on to but those are not original rails in the configuration of being snooker rails. Someone turned that table into an amateur project of t4ying to turn it into something that it was not original designed to be, at this stage it's a Frankenstein table of no value. So the real question is, what are you wanting to do with the table as an end result?
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Well these are original as they are marked:

"Match Monarch Cushions Pat. Aug. 29. 1892 MFG'D BY The Brunswick - Balke - Collender Co. U.S.A"

As to your question Bob from Rebco is coming up to assemble the table and I will continue to enjoy it. Hopefully it will play even better as there were structural pieces that were left unassembled before.

Anyway... RKC thanks for all your input.....much appreciated. Thumbs up:grin:

p.s. I'll post some photos when Bob gets it all finished with new felt.....I think I'll go with the "British green" a little darker than the Simonis green.
 
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I think you are missing the point RKC is trying to make. The cushion could possibly be original to the table as are the rails. The rails on your table were originally 3 cushion rails (pocketless). Somewhere along the way, a previous owner cut the rails and the slate to turn it into a snooker table. It did not leave the Brunswick factory in its current configuration.

Regardless, neat table! Enjoy it!
 
rexus31 said:
I think you are missing the point RKC is trying to make. The cushion could possibly be original to the table as are the rails. The rails on your table were originally 3 cushion rails (pocketless). Somewhere along the way, a previous owner cut the rails and the slate to turn it into a snooker table. It did not leave the Brunswick factory in its current configuration.

Regardless, neat table! Enjoy it!
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I asked Bob Bebb this morning and he says it is an original to the Alexandria made in 1909 to 1913....his further comment...."Don't worry about it".

When he see's it in the flesh....as of now only the many photos I have sent him....we shall see. Thanks

P.s. though I think you guys are right....
 
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Fast996 said:
I asked Bob Bebb this morning and he says it is an original to the Alexandria made in 1909 to 1913....his further comment...."Don't worry about it".

When he see's it in the flesh....as of now only the many photos I have sent him....we shall see. Thanks

P.s. though I think you guys are right....
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OK, I'm done.....tell Bob I said hi.
 
First, the matching numbers mean absolutely nothing. Tables and rail sets were swapped and renumbered all the time. It is no guarantee that the rails are original or even from the same table.

Second, the Alexandria was never produced as a snooker table from the factory.
Carom, pocket, or combination but not snooker. So someone jacked up the rails to make it a snooker table.

The original installed cushions would have been what they called the " 1845's" aka Monarch brand. If there are indeed Monarch brand on there now, they are less than useless and need to be tossed no questions asked. No they can't be saved in any way, not to mention the fact they are bent all to hell.

The rails WILL need to be completely stripped, measured and adjusted to fit modern cushions and make the table play right. Be prepared.
 
Mr. Bond said:
First, the matching numbers mean absolutely nothing. Tables and rail sets were swapped and renumbered all the time. It is no guarantee that the rails are original or even from the same table.
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I have no doubt you are correct about the table in regards to it being a converted snooker.

The cushions are circa 1950's & I will keep them.

I doubt your comment on the numbering of the frame tops in various places,vertical crossmembers & horizontal stretchers,frame sides,rails is correct.

Owning a manufacturing business I would do the same not only for matched pieces but for the ease during the assembly process.

The email below from Brunswick is more believable as it is documented from other communications from a post in 2007.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here is the answer I received from Brunswick:

----- Original Message -----
From: <joan.ledanski@brunswickbilliards.com>
To: <mjlisak@wctc.net>



The numbers on antique table were used primarily to keep the pieces of specific individual tables together during the manufacturing process.

Joan Ledanski
Administrative Projects Manager
Brunswick Billiards
 
Fast996 said:
I have no doubt you are correct about the table in regards to it being a converted snooker.

The cushions are circa 1950's & I will keep them.

I doubt your comment on the numbering of the frame tops in various places,vertical crossmembers & horizontal stretchers,frame sides,rails is correct.

Owning a manufacturing business I would do the same not only for matched pieces but for the ease during the assembly process.

The email below from Brunswick is more believable as it is documented from other communications from a post in 2007.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here is the answer I received from Brunswick:

----- Original Message -----
From: <joan.ledanski@brunswickbilliards.com>
To: <mjlisak@wctc.net>



The numbers on antique table were used primarily to keep the pieces of specific individual tables together during the manufacturing process.

Joan Ledanski
Administrative Projects Manager
Brunswick Billiards
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The numbers were there ( initially) for the exact reason you stated, to keep all the parts of the same table together.
But, rails get broken, become warped, get lost in transit, get mismatched, tables get cut down or converted, tables get hacked up and/or rehabbed and resold ...

..and at the end of the day, whatever rails end up on a particular table, the owner would then number- or - renumber the rails to match the rest of the table, because everyone wants the numbers to match.

But i can say with absolute certainty that I've seen tables with all matching numbers, that featured parts from many different tables. And I've seen it many many times.


Fyi: the people at Brunswick dont know billiards from bosh.
 
Oh and keeping those cushions is not a good idea at all.
They are most likely ruined from being contorted into the shape they're in, plus they will most certainly need to be removed to fix the rails anyway.
That's why I said " be prepared" because this is not an easy fix.
 
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