custo, cues and makers,
- Thread starter blud
- Start date
Bill, stainless steel joints aren't actually any "stronger" than some of the joints. Most of the joints used ( except for cheap plastics and ivory) do not really break. In fact, one can argue they last longer because they glue to wood better than steel.hemicudas said:
Stainless steel joints are actually easier for a cuemaker to use than phenolics or synthetics. It's much easier to mate steel joints with shafts.
Some of the steel joints you see aren't even stainless steel. Some of them are actually aluminum.
Beavis said:
Beavis,
All you need to do is RE-READ what I"ve written.
[also re-read what others say about what I've written, they understand about giving folks a choice].
I never once "told " anyone not to voice their opinions. Just let the buyer make up his or her own minds.
After all, no one person has played with "ALL " brands of cues.
[maybe your the exception in this case Beavis].There are 500 plus cuemakers in the states.
Maybe you or some other folks have a vested interest, [like in a commision] in steering folks.
Hell fire fellow "AIR Jordan" would go with an inferior shoe for the "EXTRA" cash.
After reading your comment about inferrior products,[which is a direct knock to me] above, I guess you think I can't build quality cues?
READ it and WEEP,
BUDDY HALL, DANNY DiLIBERTO, C.J.WHLIEY, BELINDA CAMPOS, WADE CRANE, BUDDY DENNIS, JIMMY MATAYA, GRADY MATHEWS, MARY KENISTON, BILLY JOHNSON, AND MANY, MANY MORE.
I could write on and on, but no need to. These folks are proff enough that I build quality cues. I had 17 plus "real professionals" playing with my cues for over a 7 1/2 year span. They endorsed me and my "CUES".
BTW, I could not aford to pay endorsement fees. Besides, I don't believe in "PAYING " someone to talk about my products. My product speaks for it's self, Beavis.
I GUESS YOU THINK ALL OF THESE FOLKS NAMED ABOVE AND MANY MORE PLAYED WITH MY CUES BECAUSE THEY WERE INFERRIOR ?
HOW MANY PLAYED WITH YOURS, BEAVIS??????????????
**** Folks, please understand that I am in no way trying to honk my own horn here. I am just sick of some folks posting something that isn't true.
It's easy as hell for someone to sit back and knock another person. After all, it's not affecting their income, just affecting the guy who gets knocked.
FACTS ARE FACTS..............
I WAS THE FIRST CUEMAKER in the world TO BUILD CUES FOR $25,000.00 and $100,000.00........[This in not way, makes my cues better than the next guys]. I was at the right place at the right time.
INFERRIOR PRODUCTS, BULL CRAP, BEAVIS,you are clueless.
No, Beavis, I don't need you telling me anything. You couldn't tie my shoe strings.
All I have ever tried to do is help people on this forum. I have not steered them to me or anyone else. I just believe in giving them a choice.
I have and will continue to help those who need and ask for it.
blud
Blud, I know you make a great cue. No doubt about it. As I have said, I have played with your cues and like them. I am just partial to stainless steel and nothing personal,,,and I know that you know this,,,,,,,,,,,Billy Johnson and Wade Crane are the same person. LOL. Best of luck...............$Bill
blud said:
They have to feed their families? If somone is making poor cues then why should that fact be hidden from the consumers? The consumer does not have to be rich either Blud. Perhaps this cue purchase is a huge investment for the person and a treat they have been waiting years for and now finally have the chance to purchase the cue of their dreams. With cue makers being spaced out across the country and even the world it is an impossibility for many people to travel far and wide trying out all the cue makers. The consumer might also live in an area where few people actually have custom made cues so the consumer could see and try out the different makers product. This consumer does not deserve to have the information that will allow him/her to make an informed decision hidden from them.
If this person finally spends the money to purchase the cue, waits for it to be built, gets the cue finally, and finds out it is a lemon and that the cue maker does very poor work what is he to do now? Maybe you (Blud) would replace a cue that a consumer did not like or that came out poorly but I can guarantee you that not all cue makers would do so. That cue could warp on the consumer, the joint could be poorly constructed and the cue could have a poor "hit", the woods could have been poorly dried and variable shrinkage could then cause damage to the finish and the cue itself. This could be a heartbreak to someone if this was the only custom cue they could ever afford to buy and it came out like this. Do you think this is an OK thing to happen since at least the "cuemakers family has to eat"?
I had my own custom made cue built by a well known local cue maker who I knew did good work. My cue came out nearly perfect despite alot of very difficult components, a very tricky design, and a change in design late in production that caused alot of extra work and an unorthodox building technique. But I knew what I was doing when I picked the cue maker and I knew what to ask for and what to accept and what should be worked on further.
What if the Wife, Mother, Father, Son, Daughter, ect.... of a pool player supposed to do when they want to surprise their loved one with a custom made cue? How are these people supposed to pick a quality custom cue builder if they do not have resources such as the internet to see disscussion on various cue makers? They obviously cannot "try out" the cues if they are not pool players as they will not know what they are trying to "feel". They will likely not have the ability to see the difference between a great veneer job and a poor veneer job. The cue maker even if he builds a poor product will be able to sell his cues to these uneducated people by telling them a bunch of nonsense that the real pool player could see right through. After spending huge amounts of money on a custom made cue for their loved one what do you think that person that gets the cue feels like when he relizes his present with so much thought put into it was actually a ripoff to those that bought it for him? Perhaps he says nothing and plays with the cue so that he does not make the giftgiver feel bad and feigns that he loves the cue and that it is perfect, feeling all the while that the cue is poorly built and having to explain to his peers in the pool scene why he has a $3000 peice of timber. Do you Blud, believe this is a acceptable situation due to the fact that the cuemakers "family has to eat"?
There ARE poor cuemakers out there that build poorly made cues Blud. You are correct that alot of cue makers build a great cue but there are alot of cue makers out there that build crap as well and dont take the time or put the due care into their work or just dont have the knowledge and skills. People do not deserve to be ripped off by buying a poorly built custom made cue that will give them nothing but problems down the road and plummet in value due to poor quality. Why do you feel that the consumers should not have any resources as to the quality of cue makers and who is doing good work? Why do you believe the buyers of cues should be unaware of what they are getting and have no resources to go to for opinions?
You dont seem to get that some people need help deciding what cue maker to go to Blud. Some people dont know the right questions to ask a cue maker. Some people wont be able to see the difference between a cue maker honestly explaining why his cues hit well and a crappy cue maker throwing out a well prepared sales pitch. Some people buying cues will be beginners or they will not be pool players at all and these people cannot tell the difference between a cue that hits well and a cue that hits the ball poorly. They dont know what a taper is let alone what difference the taper makes to the hit of a cue.
Your post comes off to me as if you do not care in the slightest if some unaware consumers are sold poorly built yet expensive custom cues. You seem to think that these ignorant consumers have no right to information that would help them make an informed decision and that they should instead be forced to take the gamble, randomly choose a cue maker (since they cannot pick one through informed decisions due to lack of knowledge), and hope they picked one that does quality work. If they picked poorly and got a crappy cue then at least that cuemakers family eats steak tonight. I am sorry Blud but that strikes me as wrong.
If a person is doing quality work and builds good cues then they will be rewarded. People who know what makes a good cue will try their cues and if they are truely built well and hit the ball well then that cuemaker will be rewarded with one more person expounding on the quality of their cues. Word of mouth is one of the largest advertisements for cue makers whether you like it or not Blud. The cue makers send their product out into the world and those cues make the rounds and are tested and talked about by pool players they come into contact with. The good cue makers will then get orders from those people that saw, tried, and liked their cues. Those people that build poor cues and send them out into the pool world will gain a reputation for selling poorly built cues and it is their own fault for building a poorly built cue and then selling it instead of ditching it and trying again untill they get it right and also build a quality cue. No cue maker is getting burned in this system that does not deserve it, they control their own fate with their product they send out.
To me the differance from steel joints and flat face phenolic, is the steel jointed cue has a look of it's own, it looks more finished, even if it's isn't..... It's not up to me to say which plays best. FACT, More pro's play with flat face phenolic joints than steel. For what that's worth.
I build flat face phenolic cues. I don't like stainless joints. This does not mean my way is best. I feel that the player, no matter what level he or she may be, can feel the ball a little quicker with flat face rather than steel. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it........
Lots of GREAT cues with steel and flat faces.
Joseph cues, I beg to differ on which is easer to build, steel or phenolic. Both are great to work with. I assume you refering to "blending" the shaft to the cue making the steel joint easier to build. You should consider using a carbide fixture to "blend ' your shafts to butts. I build and sell these if you need some. I make one for the shaft and one for the butt. By using these you can have perfect blended shafts every time without the customer sending in his cue or you as the cuemaker going through a lot of unessary work to have perfectly blended butts and shafts. Call me if you want to order a set for your cues. 830-232-5991
Thanks
Zimmer, I use snakewood quite offten. It's rare and hard to find "great snakewood". It's a wood that is very expensive. It checks [cracks] very easy. Very good for fronts and makes nice inlays.
Jimmy, I don't care about votes. I do well with out a poll. I just don't think it's fair to list a few cuemakers and not list all cuemakers. Maybe after this statement, someone will figure out that it's really is un-fair to not list "ALL" cuemakers. I am not smart enough to write sofware. Not my bag,m sir..... I just feel that "NO ONE" has the right to make a call on which cue is best. There are to many options for one to make such a call.
Opinions have been known to sway folks, right or wrong.........
blud
Now can we go to something more constructive. NUFF SAID..................
I build flat face phenolic cues. I don't like stainless joints. This does not mean my way is best. I feel that the player, no matter what level he or she may be, can feel the ball a little quicker with flat face rather than steel. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it........
Lots of GREAT cues with steel and flat faces.
Joseph cues, I beg to differ on which is easer to build, steel or phenolic. Both are great to work with. I assume you refering to "blending" the shaft to the cue making the steel joint easier to build. You should consider using a carbide fixture to "blend ' your shafts to butts. I build and sell these if you need some. I make one for the shaft and one for the butt. By using these you can have perfect blended shafts every time without the customer sending in his cue or you as the cuemaker going through a lot of unessary work to have perfectly blended butts and shafts. Call me if you want to order a set for your cues. 830-232-5991
Thanks
Zimmer, I use snakewood quite offten. It's rare and hard to find "great snakewood". It's a wood that is very expensive. It checks [cracks] very easy. Very good for fronts and makes nice inlays.
Jimmy, I don't care about votes. I do well with out a poll. I just don't think it's fair to list a few cuemakers and not list all cuemakers. Maybe after this statement, someone will figure out that it's really is un-fair to not list "ALL" cuemakers. I am not smart enough to write sofware. Not my bag,m sir..... I just feel that "NO ONE" has the right to make a call on which cue is best. There are to many options for one to make such a call.
Opinions have been known to sway folks, right or wrong.........
blud
Now can we go to something more constructive. NUFF SAID..................
B
Beavis
Guest
blud said:
I never said I have played with every cue out there. But I have played and owned yours. One with a warped handle, the other with the finish flaking off after 6 months. Had a friend with a warped blud also. So its not " I have played with all these cues " Its more like I played with yours, and they arent the best cue for the money.
I have no vested interest. I have owned your cues, they dont play that well, they look just like everyone elses. And on top of that, they fall apart. So my "interest" is to help people not make the same mistake I did.
Im sure you could build a quality cue. But that would take time, and you would have to not worry about banging them for the quick cash.. and we all know that isnt going to happen.
You dont pay players, but you do give them your dam cues. And we are talking about pool players... people who way say anything for a reason. I mean who cares what the pros play with anyway. According to that statement, a cuetech must be an awesome cue cause Earl plays with it ?
Im not a cuemaker, Im just an honest joe who has read your many statments on this board, and owned your work. Your cues are if anything second best to the real greats.
Blud, thanks for the offer.
I was planning to get two built locally. One b4 the pieces are sprayed and one after.
I have your number and will make a decision when a friend's proprietary pins come out.
I was planning to get two built locally. One b4 the pieces are sprayed and one after.
I have your number and will make a decision when a friend's proprietary pins come out.
This seems to be a misunderstanding topic!
IMO... there is NO way to determine what is the best cue out there, NO WAY! However John Doe may think that XXX Cue is the best for XXXX reasons, Mary Beth may think that XXX Cue is the best for XXXX reasons, everyone is entitled to their OWN OPINIONS according to their personal experience. I know a few people who have a Bludworth cue and have played with it for over 10 years along with other cues and it is still holding up without any major repair work besides a tip or a new shaft. I know people who have Scruggs and have had a problem with the joint pin (don't ask me what, I don't know), they also have a Joss, Schon, McWorter, Jacoby, Prather and a Mottey cue...he loves them all in their own way for their own reasons. You can give your opinion about a cuemaker, but I don't think ANYONE has the right or the knowledge to say who is the best and who is the worst, only render their personal opinion.
...Zim
IMO... there is NO way to determine what is the best cue out there, NO WAY! However John Doe may think that XXX Cue is the best for XXXX reasons, Mary Beth may think that XXX Cue is the best for XXXX reasons, everyone is entitled to their OWN OPINIONS according to their personal experience. I know a few people who have a Bludworth cue and have played with it for over 10 years along with other cues and it is still holding up without any major repair work besides a tip or a new shaft. I know people who have Scruggs and have had a problem with the joint pin (don't ask me what, I don't know), they also have a Joss, Schon, McWorter, Jacoby, Prather and a Mottey cue...he loves them all in their own way for their own reasons. You can give your opinion about a cuemaker, but I don't think ANYONE has the right or the knowledge to say who is the best and who is the worst, only render their personal opinion.
...Zim
Zim, cuemakers and players actually look at cues differently.
Frankly, most people really do not know what a well-built cue is.
Most look at the outside of the cue while they have no idea what's inside the cue.
A few weeks ago I found out one particular cuemaker ( he makes EXPENSIVE cues, ACA member) does not thread the tenons of his shafts but he uses threaded ferrules and was press-fitting them and was using yellow glue. I can tell you most people who paid for this cuemaker's cues swear by them. His cues are also have a buzzing problem.
I've seen x-rays of cues that have glue gaps like you won't believe. I've seen a few with holes not even concentric to the cue.
But, people are entitled to their opinions.
That pretty much applies to anything.
I swear by my Sig Sauer .45 because I have taken it down several times and have shot lights out with it. But, there are still people out there that swear by
SW, Springfield or Colt.
Frankly, most people really do not know what a well-built cue is.
Most look at the outside of the cue while they have no idea what's inside the cue.
A few weeks ago I found out one particular cuemaker ( he makes EXPENSIVE cues, ACA member) does not thread the tenons of his shafts but he uses threaded ferrules and was press-fitting them and was using yellow glue. I can tell you most people who paid for this cuemaker's cues swear by them. His cues are also have a buzzing problem.
I've seen x-rays of cues that have glue gaps like you won't believe. I've seen a few with holes not even concentric to the cue.
But, people are entitled to their opinions.
That pretty much applies to anything.
I swear by my Sig Sauer .45 because I have taken it down several times and have shot lights out with it. But, there are still people out there that swear by
SW, Springfield or Colt.
B
Beavis
Guest
Exactly...
Voicing your opinion is just that, your opinion. And your opinion should be valued as that. But when people dont want your opinion out there cause you said something they dont like, it makes you wonder.
I am sure there are bludworths out there that dont have issues. Just like sure there are Dennis Searings out there that do have problems. Working with wood is always going to have mixed results. But some cue makers take a lot more time, and do a lot more to "do the best they can" Not just "do the best they can so they can get a number of cues out a month no matter if they are right or wrong"
Voicing your opinion is just that, your opinion. And your opinion should be valued as that. But when people dont want your opinion out there cause you said something they dont like, it makes you wonder.
I am sure there are bludworths out there that dont have issues. Just like sure there are Dennis Searings out there that do have problems. Working with wood is always going to have mixed results. But some cue makers take a lot more time, and do a lot more to "do the best they can" Not just "do the best they can so they can get a number of cues out a month no matter if they are right or wrong"
Joseph Cues said:
here's what craig peterson said to me. he did some tests between a flatface phenolic and a piloted stainless steel....
the piloted joint is much stronger AT THE JOINT, however the flatface is stronger over a larger area(approx 15" of the center area). it is a matter of natural compensation,,,,the strong centerpoint of the ss joint allows it to be weaker where the flatface is strongest.
Thank you for sharing that Bruin.
But, like Blud, I think SS joints kill the soundwave/reasonance of the cue.
But, like Blud, I think SS joints kill the soundwave/reasonance of the cue.
B
Beavis
Guest
blud said:
I dont know how many you build a year for a fact, I was once told over 500 a year. And we have discussed this before, if they were built by you, or your son, it came from the same business.
As I tried to say in the last forum, I would reconsider my opinion of your cues, maybe you have changed yours (or your sons) ways when it comes to quality. But not a week later you were on here saying how wrong people were for saying what they think of your cues. Not only that, you were dogging people cause they said $1200 for a plain jane is too much. You get upset when people speak their mind and dont agree with your philosphy. I have heard this from 2 very well known cue makers. They both told me you were your worst own enemy, and you prove that each time you get on here.
You know, I'm not sure what some of you are talking about (although, I have my opinion on why this thread was started). Here is "exactly" what the person who started the "poll thread" said in his first post:
Wonder which maker would you go for.... I intend to get another piece but there are too much choice..
The guy wasn't asking who the best cue maker was (or even who the worst cue maker was). He gave a list of cues he was interested in and asked others, of those cues, which ones would they would buy. And the problem is?
Wonder which maker would you go for.... I intend to get another piece but there are too much choice..
The guy wasn't asking who the best cue maker was (or even who the worst cue maker was). He gave a list of cues he was interested in and asked others, of those cues, which ones would they would buy. And the problem is?
Beavis,
We all have our opinions.
You are clueless again about who built you or your friends bludworth's. It could of been me or someone else with the same name. Who knows? I would be more than happy to tell you if I saw the cues.
Who did you and your friend buy your cues from?
I am not ashamed of any cues I build. They "DO NOT" get sent out, other than first class. If you really knew me and how I operate, you would of known this. I do not send out rush jobs or seconds, as you say and think.
But you think I am rushing through cues for the cash. Your really out of line on that issue.
I don't have "my customers" tell me when they will get there cue. I tell them this, I will not rush your cues for any amount of money or reason, and I will not paint and or cut wood when it's raining or the humidity is high. I "will" take my time and do it right. If you don't like the way I go about building my cues, go some place else. This has worked for me for over 25 years.
As far as me giving cues to pro player, yes sir, I sure did. However they had many more cuemakers to choose from. I never did see your name, Beavis on any list of players. Has anyone else? You would have to pay.
As far as my cues being second at best, as you say, this again is your opinion. As far as your statements, your way of base again.
I make a good living building cues. If I were as you made me out to be, I would be on food stamps or living under a bridge.
My ranch is paid for along with my trucks, cars, jeep, tractors, golf cart, and a 4 wheel drive mule, and the rest of our belongings. [ guest house 1570 sq.ft., barn 1650 sq.ft. another guest home 1200 sq.ft, our home 4512 sq.ft. and our shop 2880sq.ft. and a green house 864sq.ft, and a garage at 1,344sq.ft. ].... You don't gather all of these things building crapy cues.
My wife of 42 plus years and I are very happy with what we have accomplished over the years. This is why we take offence to your knocking.
You shouldn't be telling the world how you think I run my business,when again your clueless. It's none of your afair. Your just guessing, period.
This was not a smart move on your part talking about my business and me rushing cues for the cash, or your guessing at how my business is run. This would be like me telling you how you run your business. This would be stupid of me, don't you think?
All I try to do is help folks out on this forum.
I will stand up and take the heat when I have it coming. But your knocking is way out of line. I have and always will stand up for what is right. If I am wrong, I'll be the first one to say so.
About being wrong, yes, I am wrong for letting you suck me into this pissing contest.
blud
We all have our opinions.
You are clueless again about who built you or your friends bludworth's. It could of been me or someone else with the same name. Who knows? I would be more than happy to tell you if I saw the cues.
Who did you and your friend buy your cues from?
I am not ashamed of any cues I build. They "DO NOT" get sent out, other than first class. If you really knew me and how I operate, you would of known this. I do not send out rush jobs or seconds, as you say and think.
But you think I am rushing through cues for the cash. Your really out of line on that issue.
I don't have "my customers" tell me when they will get there cue. I tell them this, I will not rush your cues for any amount of money or reason, and I will not paint and or cut wood when it's raining or the humidity is high. I "will" take my time and do it right. If you don't like the way I go about building my cues, go some place else. This has worked for me for over 25 years.
As far as me giving cues to pro player, yes sir, I sure did. However they had many more cuemakers to choose from. I never did see your name, Beavis on any list of players. Has anyone else? You would have to pay.
As far as my cues being second at best, as you say, this again is your opinion. As far as your statements, your way of base again.
I make a good living building cues. If I were as you made me out to be, I would be on food stamps or living under a bridge.
My ranch is paid for along with my trucks, cars, jeep, tractors, golf cart, and a 4 wheel drive mule, and the rest of our belongings. [ guest house 1570 sq.ft., barn 1650 sq.ft. another guest home 1200 sq.ft, our home 4512 sq.ft. and our shop 2880sq.ft. and a green house 864sq.ft, and a garage at 1,344sq.ft. ].... You don't gather all of these things building crapy cues.
My wife of 42 plus years and I are very happy with what we have accomplished over the years. This is why we take offence to your knocking.
You shouldn't be telling the world how you think I run my business,when again your clueless. It's none of your afair. Your just guessing, period.
This was not a smart move on your part talking about my business and me rushing cues for the cash, or your guessing at how my business is run. This would be like me telling you how you run your business. This would be stupid of me, don't you think?
All I try to do is help folks out on this forum.
I will stand up and take the heat when I have it coming. But your knocking is way out of line. I have and always will stand up for what is right. If I am wrong, I'll be the first one to say so.
About being wrong, yes, I am wrong for letting you suck me into this pissing contest.
blud