custom 2x4 cases

feltmaster if u like i will personally hand deliver your case when it is done. and like i said u are more than welcome to come visit. i do not mean this in any negative way i would just like to send out the invite if you would like to come learn a little about the process. and your case will be done b4 your cue comes or i will ride the case to you wearing tighty whities and a sports bra on a moped. :o0
 
haha feltmaster- no i didn't mean it as a hint. he already knows i have a cue coming in.
and chaz, you'll really deliver my case in tighty whities and a sports bra? I think I'll wait the extra time hahaha.

gotta love the AZ drama. A friend told me once to never jump in on discussions cause its just an invite for a red rep bomb but hey, if I can't speak my mind here, where can i?
 
chazdillon said:
and your case will be done b4 your cue comes or i will ride the case to you wearing tighty whities and a sports bra on a moped. :o0

Please oh please oh please be late. This would be a hilarious pic for the pic/gif thread! :D
 
no offense john, but i also do custom work (not cue cases) and deal with customers, order supplies, do the work, pay the bills, etc...... Difference is, i am held to my word.

In the pool world for some reason, we are all expected to "cut everybody some slack" i don't agree.

If i say something to a customer i mean it. That's my point.

Chas, this wasn't meant as a swipe at you, but i didn't want a third party, that doesn't know our discussions getting involved. I'm still very excited to see my new case. Hopefully it's in the next few days.

Jb, i understand you gonna swing back at me, and that's ok, but you have to admit...... A mans word is all he has, and in the pool world, for some reason, we let guys slide way to often.

I see your side of it as well. I saw this coming. Cheap price + custom work = lots of orders in a short time. Result: no possible way on Earth to satisfy all orders in the expected time frame.

It's everyone's choice to work for whatever wage they want to - personally I wouldn't touch these orders for this price for any reason less than starvation and desperation. But I understand where Chaz is coming from and why he wants to get some product out there. My point is that you all KNOW that the price is low and by now with all the case making threads you all should be quasi-experts on what it takes to build cases.

It ain't rocket science but it takes time that doesn't change much for anyone regardless of where and how the cases are made. So if you want it cheap AND good then cut the guy some slack and realize that he way underestimated the time it takes to put a cue case together when all the other time consuming things are also factored in - such as dealing with a bunch of special customer requests.

I know from my side of it I average about 10-20 emails a customer before we settle on a design. I have one customer where we are close to the 100 email point. I have another that we did a fairly standard J.Flowers case for where the emails topped 50. The thing is that all those emails are followed up by more emails demanding to know why you didn't answer in the first day.

Someone showed off a Justis case the other day and they said that they spent FOUR HOURS on the phone with Jack going over the specs on the case and that Jack was patient and professional while taking so much time to write an order. My point here is that very few people look at this from the craftsman's side of it and have any understanding how much time is taken up in the administrative side of a custom fabrication business.

Did Chas step in it perhaps and overpromise on delivery? Yeah but 99% of newbies make the same mistake in their eagerness to please customers. I still make the same mistake in my eagerness to please customers and I have been doing this for 18 years.

No one factors in all the time in setting up an order and no one really wants to pay for it either. The fact is that over time you hope it kind of balances out. My clock starts when we cut the leather as far as price goes. So if I spend 5 hours designing an $800 case for one customer and the next customer for a similar case only takes 30 minutes then that evens out. If I started charging for how much time I spend with the customer then I wouldn't sell a case because no one would want to pay and most couldn't afford it.

I guarantee you that Chaz is working for slave wages on these cases. Yes, your word is your bond but sometimes you have to release a man from his promise when you know he is working hard to fulfill it but just can't get there. Especially when the benefit is way more on your side than his as in getting a great custom case for a very low price.
 
My two cents...

I was one of the first to order a case from Chaz. I still am waiting.

On one side.. you should never promise what you cannot produce or make in time.. lol..

On the other side.. sometimes you bite off more than you can chew.. Just step up and say so..

I look forward to my case every day. I am sure it will be well worth the wait, as I have never gotten anything I ordered custom when it was promised the first time, but 99% of the time, you get a really great product that you can tell the person who made it really gave a darn when they made it.

I am sure this will be the case with these cases.. or I am sure all heck will break loose here. Last time someone did a lot of promises people here ran him off.

Once these cases start appearing, I am sure we will all be happy. Won't we Chaz? :)

And do add my 3x4 to the list. I hear its a LONG list and I need it for Vegas!!

Felix
 
I see your side of it as well. I saw this coming. Cheap price + custom work = lots of orders in a short time. Result: no possible way on Earth to satisfy all orders in the expected time frame.

It's everyone's choice to work for whatever wage they want to - personally I wouldn't touch these orders for this price for any reason less than starvation and desperation. But I understand where Chaz is coming from and why he wants to get some product out there. My point is that you all KNOW that the price is low and by now with all the case making threads you all should be quasi-experts on what it takes to build cases.

It ain't rocket science but it takes time that doesn't change much for anyone regardless of where and how the cases are made. So if you want it cheap AND good then cut the guy some slack and realize that he way underestimated the time it takes to put a cue case together when all the other time consuming things are also factored in - such as dealing with a bunch of special customer requests.

I know from my side of it I average about 10-20 emails a customer before we settle on a design. I have one customer where we are close to the 100 email point. I have another that we did a fairly standard J.Flowers case for where the emails topped 50. The thing is that all those emails are followed up by more emails demanding to know why you didn't answer in the first day.

Someone showed off a Justis case the other day and they said that they spent FOUR HOURS on the phone with Jack going over the specs on the case and that Jack was patient and professional while taking so much time to write an order. My point here is that very few people look at this from the craftsman's side of it and have any understanding how much time is taken up in the administrative side of a custom fabrication business.

Did Chas step in it perhaps and overpromise on delivery? Yeah but 99% of newbies make the same mistake in their eagerness to please customers. I still make the same mistake in my eagerness to please customers and I have been doing this for 18 years.

No one factors in all the time in setting up an order and no one really wants to pay for it either. The fact is that over time you hope it kind of balances out. My clock starts when we cut the leather as far as price goes. So if I spend 5 hours designing an $800 case for one customer and the next customer for a similar case only takes 30 minutes then that evens out. If I started charging for how much time I spend with the customer then I wouldn't sell a case because no one would want to pay and most couldn't afford it.

I guarantee you that Chaz is working for slave wages on these cases. Yes, your word is your bond but sometimes you have to release a man from his promise when you know he is working hard to fulfill it but just can't get there. Especially when the benefit is way more on your side than his as in getting a great custom case for a very low price.

thanks,i couldnt have put it better myself....ive tried. i am working hard and its not starvation but i am trying to help my family out. thats why i picked up the part time job at nights for extra money.. my dads diabetic and his medication is 220 a month and he cant afford it. i didnt want to put my info out there but i just wanted to let everyone know that i do have plenty of motivation to get these done.

internets still not working so ill check my emails again tomorrow. goodnite everyone call me if u need anything

thanks
chaz
 
Keep up the good work Chaz, starting off with a new venture there are always some bumps in the road. Its how you handle them that determines how you are going to come out in the long run. I am a chef and for me I would rather a customer wait a few extra minutes for their meal and have it perfect instead of slopping food on a plate just for the sake of getting it out quicker. This theory should be applied in most businesses where people are paying for goods or services with emphasis on quality. As long as the quality is there should be no problems. I wish you well and hope you have a long and prosperous career doing what you want to do. Work the bumps out early and the product/service you are providing will do nothing but get better.

Nate <-- cant wait to see his case, and is willing to wait for perfection.
 
i see your side of it as well. I saw this coming. Cheap price + custom work = lots of orders in a short time. Result: No possible way on earth to satisfy all orders in the expected time frame.

It's everyone's choice to work for whatever wage they want to - personally i wouldn't touch these orders for this price for any reason less than starvation and desperation. But i understand where chaz is coming from and why he wants to get some product out there. My point is that you all know that the price is low and by now with all the case making threads you all should be quasi-experts on what it takes to build cases.

It ain't rocket science but it takes time that doesn't change much for anyone regardless of where and how the cases are made. So if you want it cheap and good then cut the guy some slack and realize that he way underestimated the time it takes to put a cue case together when all the other time consuming things are also factored in - such as dealing with a bunch of special customer requests.

I know from my side of it i average about 10-20 emails a customer before we settle on a design. I have one customer where we are close to the 100 email point. I have another that we did a fairly standard j.flowers case for where the emails topped 50. The thing is that all those emails are followed up by more emails demanding to know why you didn't answer in the first day.

Someone showed off a justis case the other day and they said that they spent four hours on the phone with jack going over the specs on the case and that jack was patient and professional while taking so much time to write an order. My point here is that very few people look at this from the craftsman's side of it and have any understanding how much time is taken up in the administrative side of a custom fabrication business.

Did chas step in it perhaps and overpromise on delivery? Yeah but 99% of newbies make the same mistake in their eagerness to please customers. I still make the same mistake in my eagerness to please customers and i have been doing this for 18 years.

No one factors in all the time in setting up an order and no one really wants to pay for it either. The fact is that over time you hope it kind of balances out. My clock starts when we cut the leather as far as price goes. So if i spend 5 hours designing an $800 case for one customer and the next customer for a similar case only takes 30 minutes then that evens out. If i started charging for how much time i spend with the customer then i wouldn't sell a case because no one would want to pay and most couldn't afford it.

I guarantee you that chaz is working for slave wages on these cases. Yes, your word is your bond but sometimes you have to release a man from his promise when you know he is working hard to fulfill it but just can't get there. Especially when the benefit is way more on your side than his as in getting a great custom case for a very low price.


it didn't say the price wasn't great......

I never said i didn't understand. I'm in retail and do custom work, so i certainly understand.

My point was, don't say one thing and not deliver. Do you see the top line in my signature? Think about it.

P.s. Chaz, start a new thread, for options and patterns. I'll host and move all the pics for you. My intention wasn't to hijack the thread, but it appears to have happened.
 
fast n loose. Thank you for calling when you wanted to know something. I hope that you feel that i was honest and upfront about your progress, even when i knew that what i had to say was not the answer you were looking for. That also drives me to work constantly to give you the answers that you want to hear. There would have been nothing better than saying your case is on the way or at least have u finished pics by now.

Thanks
chaz
407 953 8984


i hope you understand that part of me is also looking out for you, just like i've told you on the phone.
 
I see your side of it as well. I saw this coming. Cheap price + custom work = lots of orders in a short time. Result: no possible way on Earth to satisfy all orders in the expected time frame.

It's everyone's choice to work for whatever wage they want to - personally I wouldn't touch these orders for this price for any reason less than starvation and desperation. But I understand where Chaz is coming from and why he wants to get some product out there. My point is that you all KNOW that the price is low and by now with all the case making threads you all should be quasi-experts on what it takes to build cases.

It ain't rocket science but it takes time that doesn't change much for anyone regardless of where and how the cases are made. So if you want it cheap AND good then cut the guy some slack and realize that he way underestimated the time it takes to put a cue case together when all the other time consuming things are also factored in - such as dealing with a bunch of special customer requests.

I know from my side of it I average about 10-20 emails a customer before we settle on a design. I have one customer where we are close to the 100 email point. I have another that we did a fairly standard J.Flowers case for where the emails topped 50. The thing is that all those emails are followed up by more emails demanding to know why you didn't answer in the first day.

Someone showed off a Justis case the other day and they said that they spent FOUR HOURS on the phone with Jack going over the specs on the case and that Jack was patient and professional while taking so much time to write an order. My point here is that very few people look at this from the craftsman's side of it and have any understanding how much time is taken up in the administrative side of a custom fabrication business.

Did Chas step in it perhaps and overpromise on delivery? Yeah but 99% of newbies make the same mistake in their eagerness to please customers. I still make the same mistake in my eagerness to please customers and I have been doing this for 18 years.

No one factors in all the time in setting up an order and no one really wants to pay for it either. The fact is that over time you hope it kind of balances out. My clock starts when we cut the leather as far as price goes. So if I spend 5 hours designing an $800 case for one customer and the next customer for a similar case only takes 30 minutes then that evens out. If I started charging for how much time I spend with the customer then I wouldn't sell a case because no one would want to pay and most couldn't afford it.

I guarantee you that Chaz is working for slave wages on these cases. Yes, your word is your bond but sometimes you have to release a man from his promise when you know he is working hard to fulfill it but just can't get there. Especially when the benefit is way more on your side than his as in getting a great custom case for a very low price.
I think JB has said it all. Give the man a break. $250 guys. 2 frickin 50!! Keep plugging along chaz. I am liking what I am seeing so far. I have at least 3 to 5 people ready to order a case but they read these threads too and are waiting to see my case in hand before they order. Keep your head up and keep doing what you do.

Big Frank
 
i think jb has said it all. Give the man a break. $250 guys. 2 frickin 50!! Keep plugging along chaz. I am liking what i am seeing so far. I have at least 3 to 5 people ready to order a case but they read these threads too and are waiting to see my case in hand before they order. Keep your head up and keep doing what you do.

Big frank


it's not about the money..... Not at all.

Read my reply to jb above, and see if you can see where i'm coming from.

I'm not attacking chaz, he seems very cool. But, i have a valid point. (that i'm not retyping)
 
it's not about the money..... Not at all.

Read my reply to jb above, and see if you can see where i'm coming from.

I'm not attacking chaz, he seems very cool. But, i have a valid point. (that i'm not retyping)
I understand your point, but things dont always happen the way we want and in the manner in which we want them. The real test of a mans word is if he is man enough to tell you he has to go back on his word, which I feel he has. Look im not trying to start anything, I can see your a respected business man on AZ. I am just a big fan of the little guy thats trying to scratch out a living in a tough market. We have the ability right now to totally crush his business with what we say in this forum. I absolutely know thats not what you are trying to do. Im just saying we have the ability to do that. I am lookn forward to seeing your finished product, I hope it blows your mind. Thanks

Big Frank
 
I'm an outside observer who happens to be in the market for a case. If I liked the tooled look more, I'd probably order one of these in a second, and I'd cut the guy plenty of slack on his time estimates.

It's not that I disagree with FAST_N_LOSE, because I'm 100% with him on a man's word being his bond (and it seems that Chaz is, too). I don't necessarily think that we should automatically let people slide on that when it's pool related either. In fact, there's only one reason I think he needs a pretty hefty break here, but it's a big one.

He's never done this before. He's just a normal guy who took a whack at it and got some awesome results.

Chaz decided he'd like to learn how to make a case, and it turned out so well (at such a great price) that he got swamped with orders. I'm sure he planned out his delivery schedule based on how long that first case or two took to make. It's not that he has to spend all the extra time dealing with customers, as JB mentioned earlier, that should earn him some leeway here, but the fact that he DIDN'T KNOW how much time he'd have to devote to that. And on top of the client communication stuff, he simultaneously has to figure out how to do all the custom details people have asked him for that he hasn't made in his past cases. To be honest, I'd assume he won't actually be capable of giving an accurate timeline for a while, just because he doesn't have enough history to look back on and compare.

Once he's sent out 20-30 of these things, I'd bet his calendar will be dead on. But at the moment, everything he has to customize in a way he's never done before is different. Learning to do one feature might take a couple minutes, while another could take a week or more, depending on the complexity and how well his first shot at it goes.

FAST_N_LOSE, you run your own business. I've done that in the past myself, and if you think back, I think you'll agree with me that you don't actually become a solid, reliable businessman until you've been running it for a few months to a few years. You just don't have the past experience to base your future predictions on, no matter how good your intentions are. Once things have been going strong for a while, and you're starting to get the feeling you've seen every snag that could possibly come up a few times already, then you can plan for all of them. But when EVERYTHING is an unknown, you don't always even know what to plan for.

Chaz, I think you're doing the best you can, you seem to be a real stand-up guy, and your work looks amazing. It also seems like you're a little overwhelmed at the moment. If I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider raising the price of your work until you get a nice equilibrium between customer demand/future orders and the time you have available to build them. You can use price to control your demand. Also, when a new order comes in, quote the client at least double what you actually expect the wait time to be. If you set their expectation there, you'll have plenty of time if you hit an unforeseen snag, and if you don't, they'll be delighted to get it early.

And if you're still going next year, I'll probably be buying a case from you in my next go-round.
 
Last edited:
thanks,i couldnt have put it better myself....ive tried. i am working hard and its not starvation but i am trying to help my family out. thats why i picked up the part time job at nights for extra money.. my dads diabetic and his medication is 220 a month and he cant afford it. i didnt want to put my info out there but i just wanted to let everyone know that i do have plenty of motivation to get these done.

internets still not working so ill check my emails again tomorrow. goodnite everyone call me if u need anything

thanks
chaz

NIGHT JOB?!?! someone please tell me chaz isn't working two jobs plus trying to make these cases......i thought we abolished slavery in North America! :eek: I have yet to see one of his cases up close, they look good from the pics he has put up. but 250 shipped for a custom case and the fact that this guy is busting his ass off working two jobs plus catering to us is making me feel kinda guilty....like i'm taking advantage of the guy. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and shoot chaz another benjamin, i'd rather have him make money creating these cases than giving them away and having to work another job to make ends meet. I'll be damned if i'm paying someone 3 bucks an hour like JB says to do anything!!!!

pm sent chaz!
 
haha thanks guys, but no not 2 jobs. i just work part time at night and do cases during the day. i sold my motorcycle and cut my bills down alot to finish school in the fall. i was a medic in the army so all i have to do is go through the firefighter program at any community college becuase i am already emt certified.

everyone on here knows that i already admitted that i was wrong on my time frame and im doing what i can to catch up and even offered some extra to kind of "make up for it" if anyone is really that unsatisfied please email me at chazdillon@aol.com with what i can do to make it better for u.

thanks
chaz
407 953 8984
 
Back
Top