Custom Cue hits better than Production Cue! Really??!!

[JoeyInCali]

Joey,

I agree with you on the issue of hit and squirt.

But on the QP site he said his cues have almost "no deflection" and then he went on and talked about the tight grain and how many rings his shaft had per inch. Therefore, I had the impresssion that he was relating the grain to "deflection." If he was not trying to imply that relation, then I am confused by the logic and order of his presentation.

Also, I think a shaft which is too heavy is not desirable. I cannot understand the concept of a 6 oz shaft being the best. What do you think?

Richard

He's full of crap.
Efren's bowling alley shaft was first harvest maple dating back to world war II or earlier. It had a long 12MM tip. It hit great.
A friend of mine had a few old-growth shafts. At 13MM it squirts so much, it's funny.

 

[X Breaker]

He's full of crap.
Efren's bowling alley shaft was first harvest maple dating back to world war II or earlier. It had a long 12MM tip. It hit great.
A friend of mine had a few old-growth shafts. At 13MM it squirts so much, it's funny.

I think if a shaft is really dense, it will be very heavy. I like a heavy shaft but nothing too much. I cannot picture anyone would enjoy playing with a shaft which weights over 5oz, especially in the game of 9 ball.

With regard to solidness, I look at it in terms of vibration. What I mean is the lesser the vibration, the more solid the cue would feel to the player.

Richard

 

[jay helfert]

One Piece Cues

Pssstt, don't tell anybody what I'm about to tell you. The cuemakers would send a hitman after me.
A good one piece cue (straight, good balance, good taper and tip) is as good a cue as you can play with. No two piece cue will duplicate the feel and hit from a one piece cue. There, I've said it. So shoot me. Actually I've had several top cuemakers agree with me, just not publicly. Some feel is always lost when you cut a cue in two and insert a joint.
You want to know why they started making two piece cues years ago. Right, for convenience. They are more easily transportable.
I can remember many moons ago when Beenie and Greg Stevens carried one piece cues around with them. Don Willis never owned a two piece cue as far as I know. He just pulled a cue off the wall and punished someone.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most of the top Snooker players use one piece cues in years gone by. Maybe some still do.
So now you know. Can you keep a secret?

 

[X Breaker]

Pssstt, don't tell anybody what I'm about to tell you. The cuemakers would send a hitman after me.
A good one piece cue (straight, good balance, good taper and tip) is as good a cue as you can play with. No two piece cue will duplicate the feel and hit from a one piece cue. There, I've said it. So shoot me. Actually I've had several top cuemakers agree with me, just not publicly. Some feel is always lost when you cut a cue in two and insert a joint.
You want to know why they started making two piece cues years ago. Right, for convenience. They are more easily transportable.
I can remember many moons ago when Beenie and Greg Stevens carried one piece cues around with them. Don Willis never owned a two piece cue as far as I know. He just pulled a cue off the wall and punished someone.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most of the top Snooker players use one piece cues in years gone by. Maybe some still do.
So now you know. Can you keep a secret?

You will have to kill me now, don't you?

I think that is what Kelly of Zylr cue believes, that we love the hit of a one piece cue, and we spend the rest of our life trying to find something which duplicates that hit.

Stephen Hendry, who is commonly regarded as the best and most talented snooker player ever held a cue, plays with basically a one piece house cue.

In that sense, the joint is very important. I believe the lesser the vibration you have at the joint, the closer you will get the cue to hit like one piece.

You are the first one after over 1000 post who bought this point up. Actually, I have been working on this concept for a while now, I am trying to find a way to reduce vibration at the shaft and at the joint, so the cue would hit as solid as one piece. This has turned out to be more complex than I thought.

Do you believe the more wood to wood contact area you have at the joint, the more solid the cue would hit?

Richard

 

[icem3n]

You will have to kill me now, don't you?
Stephen Hendry, who is commonly regarded as the best and most talented snooker player ever held a cue, plays with basically a one piece house cue.

Do you believe the more wood to wood contact area you have at the joint, the more solid the cue would hit, or the more the cue would hit as true as a one piece?
Richard

Stephen Hendry and Steve Davies were at their peak performance when they were using 1 piece cue. Most top Asian also tried to imitate by using a 1 piece cue e.g. Ding Jung Hui currently playing in the UK pro circuits. But one must not forget that both Stephen and Steve has been using the same cue since they were small and they know how their cue perform. Stephen old cue are made of white ash. Its one of the worst wood ever used on cue. One of the top cue maker in England argues that two piece cue and one piece cue will not affect your performance. This is true for snooker games and most cue maker in England are using brass for their joints. If they were to use steel, they too will be struggling to search for the best joint. I believe older days pool cue also used brass joint and later to steel. Try using a cue with a brass ferrule and steel ferrule and you will know what i mean, both got different feel and you can tell the differences instantly.
And to answer your question on more contact area... i believe more surface area contact would provide better feel and performance (no lost in power). Omen makes good cues, his shafts are warpproof, but i don't like the way he cuts his treads on his pins, this leads to lost of power... you will be struggling playing draw shots. If his pins are bigger this mean bigger cuts on the treads and less contact, the more power you loss. Try doing this to a radial, difference will be more obvious.

 

[rackem]

Quote
In that sense, the joint is very important. I believe the lesser the vibration you have at the joint, the closer you will get the cue to hit like one piece.

You are the first one after over 1000 post who bought this point up. Actually, I have been working on this concept for a while now, I am trying to find a way to reduce vibration at the shaft and at the joint, so the cue would hit as solid as one piece. This has turned out to be more complex than I thought.




I have seen import cues that advertise AVD (anti vibration) designed. Are they talking about the joint?

 

[X Breaker]

I have seen import cues that advertise AVD (anti vibration) designed. Are they talking about the joint?

AVD? I have never heard of this.
Where did you see that? Which brand of import cues are you referring to?

Stephen Hendry and Steve Davies were at their peak performance when they were using 1 piece cue. Most top Asian also tried to imitate by using a 1 piece cue e.g. Ding Jung Hui currently playing in the UK pro circuits. But one must not forget that both Stephen and Steve has been using the same cue since they were small and they know how their cue perform. Stephen old cue are made of white ash. Its one of the worst wood ever used on cue. One of the top cue maker in England argues that two piece cue and one piece cue will not affect your performance. This is true for snooker games and most cue maker in England are using brass for their joints. If they were to use steel, they too will be struggling to search for the best joint. I believe older days pool cue also used brass joint and later to steel. Try using a cue with a brass ferrule and steel ferrule and you will know what i mean, both got different feel and you can tell the differences instantly.
And to answer your question on more contact area... i believe more surface area contact would provide better feel and performance (no lost in power). Omen makes good cues, his shafts are warpproof, but i don't like the way he cuts his treads on his pins, this leads to lost of power... you will be struggling playing draw shots. If his pins are bigger this mean bigger cuts on the treads and less contact, the more power you loss. Try doing this to a radial, difference will be more obvious.

Interesting. How would you articulate the difference between brass and steel?

 

[nibrobus]

AVD? I have never heard of this.
Where did you see that? Which brand of import cues are you referring to?

I think he's referring to those cheap KC Cues you find on Ebay. Here's a link to an auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Hand-Made-KC-...217485955QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a quote lifted directly from the seller's description:

"These cues are built-in with the patented Anti-Vibration-Design (AVD), which makes the hit very solid, almost vibration free and noise-free. Because of the new cue-making technology, these cues play better than most cues found on the market today."

 

[X Breaker]

I think he's referring to those cheap KC Cues you find on Ebay. Here's a link to an auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Hand-Made-KC-...217485955QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a quote lifted directly from the seller's description:

"These cues are built-in with the patented Anti-Vibration-Design (AVD), which makes the hit very solid, almost vibration free and noise-free. Because of the new cue-making technology, these cues play better than most cues found on the market today."

I wonder if there is any info on this "patented" AVD design, or if anyone really know where on the cue this AVD is supposed to have been installed.

But I have to agree with the quote, I think reducing unwanted vibration is the way to make a cue more solid.

Richard

 

[pooltchr]

Richard,
Reading all the responses, I think one thing is obvious. No matter what you do to a cue, there are going to be some that like it and some that don't. You can't please all the people all the time. Cuemakers (custom and production) build the best cues they know how to build, but it's the individual that decides whether or not they like it. I prefer a wood to wood joint, but others prefer SS joints. You can't make one cue that is best for both.
Just an observation.
Steve

 

[cuesmith]

314 IMO are for amatuers.

LOL.

more than 50% of the top 30 players in the world play with a predator shaft.


chris G[/QUOTE]
\

Yes and they were paid for by the people who actually buy cues from them, not by the top 30 players! They give away way more than any other cue company I've ever heard of, except maybe Meucci back in the 80's. Top players seldom pay for equipment, just like in most sports!

just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[Flex]

LOL.

more than 50% of the top 30 players in the world play with a predator shaft.


chris G

\

Yes and they were paid for by the people who actually buy cues from them, not by the top 30 players! They give away way more than any other cue company I've ever heard of, except maybe Meucci back in the 80's. Top players seldom pay for equipment, just like in most sports!

just more hot air!

Sherm[/QUOTE]

Tell me, would those 30 top players use Meucci black-dot shafts if Bob Meucci gave them to them? I doubt it...

Flex

 

[cuesmith]

\

Yes and they were paid for by the people who actually buy cues from them, not by the top 30 players! They give away way more than any other cue company I've ever heard of, except maybe Meucci back in the 80's. Top players seldom pay for equipment, just like in most sports!

just more hot air!

Sherm

Tell me, would those 30 top players use Meucci black-dot shafts if Bob Meucci gave them to them? I doubt it...

Flex[/QUOTE]


Flex,

No disrespect intended, but I'm guessing from your post that you're a young feller! In the 80's, when Meucci was in their heyday, a lot more top players played with Meucci cues than they do Predator today! Predator learned a lot from Meucci's advertizing success. They both spent more promoting their product then they did producing it! When Meucci was popular they had, just to name a few off the top of my head, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, David Howard, Chris MacDonald, Jim Rempe, Efren Reyes, Sammy Jones, Mike Sigel, Larry Hubbard and about every top player in the country using their equipment! I know, I used to fix a lot of them! Some of the players on Meucci's player rep staff used to send me their cues to tweek! One almost lost his sponsorship over it! lol
Advertizing is the key to the success of both of these products, IMHO!
Oh, and by the way, Meucci's big sales pitch at the time was that his cues had "ZERO DEFLECTION". He would have David Howard or Mike Sigel demonstrate how accurately the cues shot! HAHA Like the player didn't have anything to do with it!

just more hot air


Sherm

 

[Cornerman]

Quote
In that sense, the joint is very important. I believe the lesser the vibration you have at the joint, the closer you will get the cue to hit like one piece.

You are the first one after over 1000 post who bought this point up.

It's brought up every single time a "what is the best joint" question is asked. Also, the notion of "single piece is best" is also brought up every single time this subject comes up.

It was Ray Schuler's full intention: to make a joint with the least weight and vibration to mimick a single-piece construction.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

jason miller just beat the world with a house cue,guess he doen't need your advantage.

He did???

Fred <~~~ didn't look like a house cue to me

 

[icem3n]

Interesting. How would you articulate the difference between brass and steel?

Richard my friend, its all about resonance. Maybe Marantz could help you define that. Or maybe a PhD Physician from Harvard can help you elaborate. They do know how to measure vibration and resonant in metals using simple equipment. Hope this help.

With the steel way down in the mid of the cue i.e. joint, its very hard to tell whether a cue is using steel or wood or brass,unless you a real pro. What i have stated earlier is that if you were to have a steel or brass as a ferrule you definitly will tell the differences instantly. Think of a kid playing music with glasses of water(difference volume in different glasses) and a guitarist tighening his guitar's string. But as metal(brass or steel) is move towards the centre the vibration change and it is hardly noticeble. Check out the following site, it got nothing to do with pool.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/eduardo/eduardo_3.html

http://www.johnsongtr.com/Tips.90.0.html

http://people.deas.harvard.edu/~jones/cscie129/supplements/Miller/miller.html

 

[TheBook]

The joint must be important. How many cuemakers will discribe on their website how their joint makes the cue hit better, play better, etc. Gee I thought that the joint was the most important part of the cue after reading some of this. After all the joint is the only thing that seperates a real sneaky pete from a high price custom. Take a house cue, cut it in two and use a screw to be able to join it back together.

If you use a car for an anology the tires are the only things between you and the road. Look how tires have progressed in the past few years. Put a cheap set of tires on a good car and you get a bad ride and crappy handling. There is a big difference between bias ply tires and radial tires. Therefore a radial pin must be the best. Also by using tires as the contact point between the car and the road than the cue tip will make the biggest difference.

 

[uwate]

Using pro players as an example of production cues is misleading. The pro players who play with a production cue usually have custom work done to the cue. Not naming any names, but a top player who was sponsored by a cuemaker that imports from China sent his "playing cue" to Dennis Searing who completely redid the cue, including changing out the shafts entirely. You wont read that in any ad for those $100 cues thats for sure.

I've played with production cues and sometimes they hit pretty good. I dont think I will put down my current cue any time soon though.