Custom Cues: What's Hot, What's Not

[tom haney]

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT....I ONLY GAVE THE INFO THAT THE LAWYER GAVE ME, AND I AM SURE HE HAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW.


PLEASE PEOPLE READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE WRITING A POST THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED

You think he's bad on this. Try talking politics with him.

 

[cuenut]

Cues I wouldn't buy

Are you saying you wouldn't buy a Viattorre cue? Yeah not too sure about resell value, but I don't think I would resell mine when I get it...

I have seen some really pretty cues come out of the Phillipines, but I wouldn't put any money in any of them. I haven't heard of any cuemaker from there that really has any real history other than a few years. They may play well, but like Dale Perry's stuff, you can't give them away when you want something else.

Maybe in a couple of years. Who knows. They just seemed to pop up all at once, selling cheap.

 

[Egg McDogit]

here's what's hot: running out and paying a grip for a stick because some idiot on an internet forum that can't run 5 balls told you it's hot.

 

[Guru]

here's what's hot: running out and paying a grip for a stick because some idiot on an internet forum that can't run 5 balls told you it's hot.

What's a grip?

 

[Sweet Marissa]

What's a grip?

A lot

 

[zeeder]

here's what's hot: running out and paying a grip for a stick because some idiot on an internet forum that can't run 5 balls told you it's hot.

I once, about a year and a half ago, ran 6 balls! Does this mean I can give people advice about hot cues?!

 

[Egg McDogit]

I once, about a year and a half ago, ran 6 balls! Does this mean I can give people advice about hot cues?!

for sure! it also means you should spot me the 5! =)

 

[zeeder]

for sure! it also means you should spot me the 5! =)

If it was possible to go back a year and a half ago when I was in dead stroke I would give you the 5! I mean, can you imagine? Six in a row!

 

[Celtic]

I hope the use of ivory becomes hot again.

Poachers kidnapped your wife and kids? With the almost full out war in Africa over poaching of elephants I could not disagree more with this. The last thing we need is a resurgence in the use of ivory driving up it's demand.

 

[cuesmith]

Poachers kidnapped your wife and kids? With the almost full out war in Africa over poaching of elephants I could not disagree more with this. The last thing we need is a resurgence in the use of ivory driving up it's demand.

Where do you come up with that information? The problems in Africa are certainly not over poaching elephants, they're civil rights issues. From what I've heard, the elephant population is growing to the point of being a nuisance in some areas. There are plenty of good legal sources for ivory. Ivory that is aged enough to use in cuemaking, not on the hoof! I think the poaching angle has been greatly exaggerated and that there's nothing wrong with ivory in cues. Do I think it's the best substance to use? That's could be a different story all together!
http://www.american.edu/TED/elephbot.htm

just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[Celtic]

Where do you come up with that information?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/16/1071336958578.html?oneclick=true

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues...t_sheet/elephant_poaching_and_ivory_seizures/

Its not really hard to find articles on the ivory trade in Africa, which was banned in 1989.

From what I've heard, the elephant population is growing to the point of being a nuisance in some areas.

In some areas yeah, and they are thinking of culling the herds. I have no issue with that. If they do so I hope they shoot only the large bull males with large tusks and then use the profits from that ivory to create more wildlife reserves and hire and equip more wardens to combat the continuous poaching which indeed still happens.

There are plenty of good legal sources for ivory. Ivory that is aged enough to use in cuemaking, not on the hoof!

Mammoth Ivory is the only ivory that I see as a proper source for ivory. Much of the "legal" ivory is as questionable as a diamond, do you have a legit diamond? Or do you have a blood diamond filtered through the black market and cleaned? How would you know either way for certain?

I think the poaching angle has been greatly exaggerated and that there's nothing wrong with ivory in cues.

There is alot of poaching in Africa of Elephants. There are alot of poachers and game wardens killed each year from fighting each other in the war.

There is ALOT less poaching due to the fact that the ivory trade has been extremely limited due to the ban and the fact that ivory is now a VERY controlled substance. If you open the boarders up and make it open season on the use of ivory then you would see an explosion on the price of ivory and you would then see an explosion of the number of poachers that are again hunting elephants for their tusks.

You say "there is nothing wrong with ivory in cues" but then not to be a hypocrit you must also say "there is nothing wrong with using ivory for piano keys" and "there is nothing wrong with using ivory for carvings" and on and on. All of the sudden you have shot the value of ivory through the roof because now every high end piano is using ivory keys, every carving made of ivory pushes the price up. When you increase the demand you increase the price. If you increase the price and demand you will force an increase in supply and that is where the problem lies.

It is all good to sit with your little piece of ivory in your little cue shop and make your cues oblivious to the outside world. You need to look at the bigger picture when you are going to decide whether or not that little block of white incisor is really significant or not in the bigger picture far removed from your little place in the world where the "hear no evil see no evil" mindset is very easy to fall victom to.

 

[cueaddicts]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/16/1071336958578.html?oneclick=true

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues...t_sheet/elephant_poaching_and_ivory_seizures/

Its not really hard to find articles on the ivory trade in Africa, which was banned in 1989.



In some areas yeah, and they are thinking of culling the herds. I have no issue with that. If they do so I hope they shoot only the large bull males with large tusks and then use the profits from that ivory to create more wildlife reserves and hire and equip more wardens to combat the continuous poaching which indeed still happens.



Mammoth Ivory is the only ivory that I see as a proper source for ivory. Much of the "legal" ivory is as questionable as a diamond, do you have a legit diamond? Or do you have a blood diamond filtered through the black market and cleaned? How would you know either way for certain?



There is alot of poaching in Africa of Elephants. There are alot of poachers and game wardens killed each year from fighting each other in the war.

There is ALOT less poaching due to the fact that the ivory trade has been extremely limited due to the ban and the fact that ivory is now a VERY controlled substance. If you open the boarders up and make it open season on the use of ivory then you would see an explosion on the price of ivory and you would then see an explosion of the number of poachers that are again hunting elephants for their tusks.

You say "there is nothing wrong with ivory in cues" but then not to be a hypocrit you must also say "there is nothing wrong with using ivory for piano keys" and "there is nothing wrong with using ivory for carvings" and on and on. All of the sudden you have shot the value of ivory through the roof because now every high end piano is using ivory keys, every carving made of ivory pushes the price up. When you increase the demand you increase the price. If you increase the price and demand you will force an increase in supply and that is where the problem lies.

It is all good to sit with your little piece of ivory in your little cue shop and make your cues oblivious to the outside world. You need to look at the bigger picture when you are going to decide whether or not that little block of white incisor is really significant or not in the bigger picture far removed from your little place in the world where the "hear no evil see no evil" mindset is very easy to fall victom to.

OK...I'm baited. Just what exactly are your qualifications for posting this. Since you seem to have such a staunch opinion on this, I'm sure a lot of folks would love to hear some background.

 

[Fred Agnir]

Poachers kidnapped your wife and kids?

I resent this seemingly emotionally filled, but IMO, misguided response. [/quote]

With the almost full out war in Africa over poaching of elephants I could not disagree more with this. The last thing we need is a resurgence in the use of ivory driving up it's demand.

I know this seems to be the going sentiment, but I have information that doesn't jibe with yours.

http://www.cuemaster.com/RSB/ivory.htm

Fred

 

[Celtic]

I resent this seemingly emotionally filled, but IMO, misguided response.

Hmm, misguided? Lets look at your linked thread.

I know this seems to be the going sentiment, but I have information that doesn't jibe with yours.

http://www.cuemaster.com/RSB/ivory.htm

Fred

THINGS YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT ELEPHANTS AND THEIR IVORY

Elephants are herbivores, surviving on abrasive plant matter available in their natural habitat. In the process of chewing this plant matter, the elephant tends to wear out its teeth at a rather rapid rate. While a good set of teeth might last us 60 years or more, the elephant goes through a set of teeth in 6 - 10 years. When these teeth are worn out, they are replaced by a new set, allowing for a ‘fresh start’. But there is a limit. Elephants have the capacity for only SIX sets of teeth. When the last set wears out, the elephant, by this time large and masterful, dies a slow and unpleasant death by starvation. Period.

This is amazing, Thomas Wayne, custom cue maker, has figured out something that we all don't know about elephants and their life cycle. Well, at least he "says" we dont know. People who actually strive to learn things and dont spend most of their time in front of reality television may be aware of such things as above. Unfortunately to someone like me his claim makes him come off like a ignorant git making the assumption that everyone who reads his speech is ignorant of the facts he presents.

Elephant Ivory has NEVER sold for more in the United States than it does right now; $110 per pound is about the maximum one has to pay for top quality tusks.

I have actually been out buying Ivory before (GASP, NOT YOU, HYPOCRIT! At least I can say I do speak from some experiance). I have never seen top quality ivory for $110 a pound. Most of the ivory I have seen on the market is flaked and dried far too much. Usually it is also from small tusks of young animals that suck for cue making because the thickness of the solid section of tusk between the outer part of the tusk and the pulp is too thin to be of use other then inlays. Maybe Thomas Wayne has some secret connection for his ivory. I would love to know if he actually dates his ivory to make sure

As a general rule, if I can’t document that a tusk was taken (at a minimum) BEFORE I was born, I won’t buy it.

Certificate of authenticity? What is the way he actually documents it? I would say short of dating the actual material he could not be sure of anything. But whatever he needs to do to make himself able to sleep at night and keep people buying his cues.

Logistically, it is much easier to smuggle poached ivory into the Asian countries than to the U.S.; I am unaware of any case of elephant ivory being smuggled into THIS country.

If he actually thinks ivory has never been smuggled into the USA I really dont know what to say. Maybe he should read this, he is pretty specific on what he chooses to study up on to provide support to his side of the debate.

http://www.traffic.org/news/press-releases/ivory_markets_usa.html

In a well managed herd, these animals are culled (killed and removed from the herd) in order to allow the rest of the herd to thrive.

No doubt, I guess that is why I said

In some areas yeah, and they are thinking of culling the herds. I have no issue with that. If they do so I hope they shoot only the large bull males with large tusks and then use the profits from that ivory to create more wildlife reserves

Culling herds is fine. ALSO fine and basically exactly what I said

The solution to protecting the elephant is to REGULATE ivory use, not ban it. In that way, the elephant can fund (in excess) its own survival. But without the regulated sale of salvaged ivory, the elephant may ultimately be doomed.

BUT right now there is a ban on ivory. If new ivory is being sold then it is poached. Sure there are some stocks of old ivory, legal ivory, and you can also rest assured that alot of new ivory is laundered and cleaned into being sold off as "old" ivory. There is alot of "new" ivory in the USA and Asia.

By all means, lets legalize the limited sale of ivory and then regulate it. Lets make sure that the elephants are not shot and killed and only the tusks taken, leaving the meat to rot in the sun. Lets make sure that juvinile animals are not being killed for tusks 1/10th the size of a normal bull male because bullets are cheap and 2 1 pound tusks are better then nothing. Regulate the hunting and culling, charge hunters a slew of money to hunt a bull elephant, the whole market can be managed and then I have no issue with the use of truely legal ivory in anything.

I hope the use of ivory becomes hot again.

THAT is what I had a problem with. Right now ivory is poached, it is smuggled into the country, it is pawned off as "legal" when it is often anything but. The whole ivory trade is a very messy ordeal right now and the last thing we need is the use of ivory getting "hot again" while it is a banned substance. Wait 10 years, sort out the messes with the actual supply of ivory, once it becomes a regulated and controlled market where the animals are hunted and culled with actual thought and brains and not by poachers then let the ivory come back as hot again. We dont need to be rushing to making ivory the in thing again until the supply is regulated and controlled and legal.

I wonder if Thomas Wayne feels the same way about Grizzly Bears and their poaching for their gall bladders, used as a aphrodisiac in Asia. I see the poaching of the two species at present as very similar and do not support either. I also see the sale and use of the ivory and the gall bladders as the root of the problem because if you take away the demand then the supply becomes pointless. That is common sense.

 

[Teddy Harris]

The whole ivory trade is a very messy ordeal right now and the last thing we need is the use of ivory getting "hot again" while it is a banned substance.

First of all...ivory is not a "banned substance," whatever that means. It is perfectly legal to buy, sell and trade ivory in the US. I buy all my ivory from the David Warther Museum. Feel free to call him and question him about the ivory he sells.
IMHO, it is better to sell the ivory and make money to buy medical supplies, educational materials, and food for the starving than to burn it up in piles by the ton. For years, countries were destroying ivory...now they can sell it and buy these necessary items.
That is, so long as the species is not endangered, and hunting the elephants is regulated.

 

[Barbara]

First of all...ivory is not a "banned substance," whatever that means. It is perfectly legal to buy, sell and trade ivory in the US. I buy all my ivory from the David Warther Museum. Feel free to call him and question him about the ivory he sells.
IMHO, it is better to sell the ivory and make money to buy medical supplies, educational materials, and food for the starving than to burn it up in piles by the ton. For years, countries were destroying ivory...now they can sell it and buy these necessary items.
That is, so long as the species is not endangered, and hunting the elephants is regulated.

Hey Tim!

You're right, ivory is not a banned substance if bought through legal recourses. Museum ivory is entirely legal. Ivory that has been dated before "pre-banned" dates is also legal to buy.

I used to not like cues made with ivory inlays until I saw the art of the craft and the beauty of the simple combination of ivory, ebony, and birdseye maple. Like Long-Haired Frankie's cue looks like. Just give me a leather wrap and my hubby has my BD present all ready!

Oh yeah, small request, 8 points...

Barbara

 

[Celtic]

IMHO, it is better to sell the ivory and make money to buy medical supplies, educational materials, and food for the starving than to burn it up in piles by the ton. For years, countries were destroying ivory...now they can sell it and buy these necessary items.
That is, so long as the species is not endangered, and hunting the elephants is regulated.

This is exactly what I have been saying. Do I have to actually quote myself so people read the whole post I make and dont pick out a small piece and then say something that I actually agree with as if it is against my thoughts? I hope the regulated hunting and culling of elephants can lead to a squeeky clean ivory trade.

Might want to look at

http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/ivory.htm

After the lifting of the ban there has been an increase in poaching in Zambia, Kenya, Central African Republic, Ghana, and Congo. Also there are no checks or modes to accurately monitor whether the ivory being traded is from elephants in the specific countries or if it is illegally entering the market from other countries where ivory trade is banned. The checks are not in place because of a lack of funding and lack of personnel to keep track of any ivory entering from across borders. It is very hard to distinguish between legal ivory and illegal ivory in the market. More and more, illegally poached ivory is reaching markets.

I am done with the debate anyhow. Cue makers who use ivory have their own agenda's. I am not going to say they are immoral or bad people either, I am sure most are concerned that the ivory they use is legal and obtained in a humane and intelligent fashion. That being said I think the ivory trade is not nearly as cut and dry that you can be sure of this and all I ask is that those that use ivory and purchase it do so with the realization that it is a tricky product to be assured of its origin.

 

[cuesmith]

Hmm, misguided? Lets look at your linked thread.







This is amazing, Thomas Wayne, custom cue maker, has figured out something that we all don't know about elephants and their life cycle. Well, at least he "says" we dont know. People who actually strive to learn things and dont spend most of their time in front of reality television may be aware of such things as above. Unfortunately to someone like me his claim makes him come off like a ignorant git making the assumption that everyone who reads his speech is ignorant of the facts he presents.



I have actually been out buying Ivory before (GASP, NOT YOU, HYPOCRIT! At least I can say I do speak from some experiance). I have never seen top quality ivory for $110 a pound. Most of the ivory I have seen on the market is flaked and dried far too much. Usually it is also from small tusks of young animals that suck for cue making because the thickness of the solid section of tusk between the outer part of the tusk and the pulp is too thin to be of use other then inlays. Maybe Thomas Wayne has some secret connection for his ivory. I would love to know if he actually dates his ivory to make sure



Certificate of authenticity? What is the way he actually documents it? I would say short of dating the actual material he could not be sure of anything. But whatever he needs to do to make himself able to sleep at night and keep people buying his cues.



If he actually thinks ivory has never been smuggled into the USA I really dont know what to say. Maybe he should read this, he is pretty specific on what he chooses to study up on to provide support to his side of the debate.

http://www.traffic.org/news/press-releases/ivory_markets_usa.html



No doubt, I guess that is why I said



Culling herds is fine. ALSO fine and basically exactly what I said



BUT right now there is a ban on ivory. If new ivory is being sold then it is poached. Sure there are some stocks of old ivory, legal ivory, and you can also rest assured that alot of new ivory is laundered and cleaned into being sold off as "old" ivory. There is alot of "new" ivory in the USA and Asia.

By all means, lets legalize the limited sale of ivory and then regulate it. Lets make sure that the elephants are not shot and killed and only the tusks taken, leaving the meat to rot in the sun. Lets make sure that juvinile animals are not being killed for tusks 1/10th the size of a normal bull male because bullets are cheap and 2 1 pound tusks are better then nothing. Regulate the hunting and culling, charge hunters a slew of money to hunt a bull elephant, the whole market can be managed and then I have no issue with the use of truely legal ivory in anything.



THAT is what I had a problem with. Right now ivory is poached, it is smuggled into the country, it is pawned off as "legal" when it is often anything but. The whole ivory trade is a very messy ordeal right now and the last thing we need is the use of ivory getting "hot again" while it is a banned substance. Wait 10 years, sort out the messes with the actual supply of ivory, once it becomes a regulated and controlled market where the animals are hunted and culled with actual thought and brains and not by poachers then let the ivory come back as hot again. We dont need to be rushing to making ivory the in thing again until the supply is regulated and controlled and legal.

I wonder if Thomas Wayne feels the same way about Grizzly Bears and their poaching for their gall bladders, used as a aphrodisiac in Asia. I see the poaching of the two species at present as very similar and do not support either. I also see the sale and use of the ivory and the gall bladders as the root of the problem because if you take away the demand then the supply becomes pointless. That is common sense.

You have obviously already made up your mind on the subject and are not interested in the facts. I'm sure that you feel the way you do for all the right reasons, misguided as you may be! As Ted Mentioned I also buy all of my ivory from Warther Museum. I trust David Warther, he's highly respected in many circles. I don't ask to see paperwork on the ivory I get from him but he guarantees that all the ivory he sells is legitimate. That's good enough for me! I am against poaching, and I don't feel that using ivory promotes poaching. Greed is what promotes poaching! Can't outlaw whiskey just because some gangbanger might stick up a liquor store!


just more hot air!


Sherm

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Where do you come up with that information? The problems in Africa are certainly not over poaching elephants, they're civil rights issues. From what I've heard, the elephant population is growing to the point of being a nuisance in some areas. There are plenty of good legal sources for ivory. Ivory that is aged enough to use in cuemaking, not on the hoof! I think the poaching angle has been greatly exaggerated and that there's nothing wrong with ivory in cues. Do I think it's the best substance to use? That's could be a different story all together!
http://www.american.edu/TED/elephbot.htm

just more hot air!

Sherm

oops I removed that, I think maybe this one should get a little more humour in it,,,,

 

[Barbara]

People don't realize that ivory has to age just like woods do. In fact, ivory has to age a couple of decades just to stabilize.

Barbara