Cutting with inside english.

cookie man said:
You swipe across it , not straight into it.
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When you add sidespin with straight-stroke backhand english you don't stroke straight into it either - you angle your cue first. That's just like the angle you get by swiping.

Prove them false then.
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I have, many times. You have to test it yourself to see the proof, but it takes some patience and care - more than most here are willing to put up with.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
When you add sidespin with straight-stroke backhand english you don't stroke straight into it either - you angle your cue first. That's just like the angle you get by swiping.


I have, many times. You have to test it yourself to see the proof, but it takes some patience and care - more than most here are willing to put up with.

pj
chgo
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Swiping across the cue ball is a technique that can be learned like anything else in this game with enough practice. When I first started playing years ago I noticed players moving across the cue ball for spin. I can do it, but I use it only on certain shots. There are some personal advantages (I say personal because everybody's stroke is different) for me.

I like hanging close to center on extreme spin and swiping does that for me. I miscue less because I'm still close to center as I apply english. I feel more control on extreme english for certain shots and can easily add or subtract stroke as necessary.

Everybody's different, but anybody can do it with enough practice. Having the desire to do it is the other requirement. If you don't like the idea, don't do it. And since we're all of different abilities, some will not notice any advantage or increase in their stroking. Because you don't do it, doesn't mean others haven't developed the skill.

Best,
Mike
 
Mike:
Swiping across the cue ball is a technique that can be learned like anything else in this game with enough practice.
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Do you think swiping can be learned as accurately and repeatably as a straight stroke? I think it's inherently less accurate and repeatable, so I want to know that it really adds something before I believe it's worth spending much time with. My game needs plenty of other improvements to occupy me.

Have you carefully tried shots both ways and proved to yourself that some are only possible with a swipe stroke? If so, can you describe one or two of them?

pj
chgo
 
swipe english

For consideration: I do parallel english & I do a combo back hand / bridge hand 'slide' or 'press' english AND I do a center or parallel line open bridge swipe english when I think it is needed for position reasons. Here is my take on the 'swipe'. By swipping instead of one of the other methods the foward momentum of the CB is less with the same or nearly the same spin more or less & the CB starts straighter before swerving to the swipe side. It is naturally harder to groove the control of it if you do not use very often. I would compare it to a masse or jump shot in that how often do you need them but when you do it is nice to have them & understand their capabilities. 'Play around' with it & see if it something you might ever have a need for. It will probably come up but not too often. The swipe english is used much when playing one hand no bridge pool. That's my nickel.
 
ENGLISH! said:
For consideration: I do parallel english & I do a combo back hand / bridge hand 'slide' or 'press' english AND I do a center or parallel line open bridge swipe english when I think it is needed for position reasons. Here is my take on the 'swipe'. By swipping instead of one of the other methods the foward momentum of the CB is less with the same or nearly the same spin more or less & the CB starts straighter before swerving to the swipe side. It is naturally harder to groove the control of it if you do not use very often. I would compare it to a masse or jump shot in that how often do you need them but when you do it is nice to have them & understand their capabilities. 'Play around' with it & see if it something you might ever have a need for. It will probably come up but not too often. The swipe english is used much when playing one hand no bridge pool. That's my nickel.
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I concur. Well said.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Do you think swiping can be learned as accurately and repeatably as a straight stroke? I think it's inherently less accurate and repeatable, so I want to know that it really adds something before I believe it's worth spending much time with. My game needs plenty of other improvements to occupy me.

Have you carefully tried shots both ways and proved to yourself that some are only possible with a swipe stroke? If so, can you describe one or two of them?

pj
chgo
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A swiping stroke is an individual's choice. By that I mean the player almost has to have a tendency to want to learn how to use it. If someone isn't into pivot systems and BHE, swiping would probably seem like craziness. :smile: A straight stroke is much easier to use. If you're a purist at heart, don't deviate.

I use a straight stroke for 95% of my shots. I never even realized I was doing a swipe until I started to pay closer attention to my stroke a few years ago. I don't have any special times I use it and it happens on its own. Like when my ex had the credit cards. I never knew when it was going to happen. It just does.

One shot I can think of is the shot that Hillbilly Bryant made a video of where he shoots a shot down the long rail with outside spin and doesn't scratch cross side. I swipe that shot to get a lot of side spin to come off of the rail back to me, past the side pocket. The swipe allows me to control the speed where I don't have to drive the cue ball forward as much as with a straight stroke. I can hit softer and dig into the cue ball a fraction longer as my stick deflects to the side more than it does straight.

I'd have to think about other shots I use it for as it's more spontaneous (or spastic). If you learn it, like anything, it becomes second nature. If you hate moving your stroke off line...fahgedaboudit!

Best,
Mike
 
I have watched Efren instruct other players/friends to use "spin" and he does that with an open bridge and swipes the CB to get a lot of "spin" to get the rock to spin off of the rails all around the table.

His knowledge of billiards is why he knows where the rock will end up - I can only guess, but When I want the rock to hit the rails and come back toward me,,,,I swipe to get spin.

Just spinnin a yarn.:smile::smile:

Be well.
 
A straight stroke is much easier to use. If you're a purist at heart, don't deviate.
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Ah, but a purist's stroke with two or three tips of english has a bit of swerve/swoop to it to really make the cue ball dance. BHE with a swoop is putting that concept into play proactively. 'Nuff said.
 
ENGLISH! said:
By swipping instead of one of the other methods the foward momentum of the CB is less with the same or nearly the same spin more or less & the CB starts straighter before swerving to the swipe side.
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Have you ever tried to accomplish the same thing with a straight stroke? It's simple to test - just choose a shot you think you need to swipe and honestly try to do it both ways.

Surely you agree that if you can do it with a straight stroke, that's a more accurate and reliable method - so it only makes sense to see if you can.

pj
chgo
 
Have you carefully tried shots both ways and proved to yourself that some are only possible with a swipe stroke? If so, can you describe one or two of them?

pj
chgo
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Mike:

One shot I can think of is the shot that Hillbilly Bryant made a video of where he shoots a shot down the long rail with outside spin and doesn't scratch cross side. I swipe that shot to get a lot of side spin to come off of the rail back to me, past the side pocket. The swipe allows me to control the speed where I don't have to drive the cue ball forward as much as with a straight stroke. I can hit softer and dig into the cue ball a fraction longer as my stick deflects to the side more than it does straight.
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If you can describe the shot in detail (or post a layout of some kind) I'll see if I can duplicate it.

If you hate moving your stroke off line...fahgedaboudit!
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I won't hate it if there's some actual advantage to it.

pj
chgo
 
PS. Inside english has little or nil effect at small angles so use it only for an aiming aid on those narrow types of shots.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
PS. Inside english has little or nil effect at small angles so use it only for an aiming aid on those narrow types of shots.
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... that depends on how much inside English is used, what you mean by a "small cut angle," the speed of the shot, and whether or not the CB also has top or bottom spin or not. 50% (half of maximum) inside English on a 0-10 degree cut can create a significant amount of spin-induced throw ... as much as 1 inch per foot. That is far from nil!

For more information, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
... that depends on how much inside English is used, what you mean by a "small cut angle," the speed of the shot, and whether or not the CB also has top or bottom spin or not. 50% (half of maximum) inside English on a 0-10 degree cut can create a significant amount of spin-induced throw ... as much as 1 inch per foot. That is far from nil!

For more information, see:

Regards,
Dave
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Almost nil effect on cue ball shape as Todd Leveck and Jack Koehler have described, with SIT mussing the pocketing of the object ball. Sorry for not being more clear.

Another reason to avoid english on certain plays.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
BilliardsAbout said:
[Inside english has] Almost nil effect on cue ball shape as Todd Leveck and Jack Koehler have described...
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Unless, of course, the cue ball hits a rail, in which case (which, of course, is most cases) it has a dramatic effect.
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It is true that English does not change the CB's tangent-line direction for a stun shot, but it does have a slight effect on CB direction for non-stun shots (e.g., rolling CB shots). For more information, see:
The type of English also affects the CB's speed some, which can also obviously affect CB position.

Also, outside English can be used to hold/limit CB motion more effectively than inside English (with a non-elevated cue). This is another example of how English can make a difference with CB position even without rail contact.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
... that depends on how much inside English is used, what you mean by a "small cut angle," the speed of the shot, and whether or not the CB also has top or bottom spin or not. 50% (half of maximum) inside English on a 0-10 degree cut can create a significant amount of spin-induced throw ... as much as 1 inch per foot. That is far from nil!

For more information, see:

Regards,
Dave
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I agree. Naturally, I would. My AZB handle is English!
 
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