Cutting with inside english.

L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I use a bit of outside english to effect a more geometrically correct cut angle on the OB.

I also use inside english and aim at the contact point knowing that squirt will send the CB to the outside of the contact point and closer to the GB.

Anyone have an aiming system using inside english accurately and with consistently?

Thanks.
 
LAMas said:
I use a bit of outside english to effect a more geometrically correct cut angle on the OB.

I also use inside english and aim at the contact point knowing that squirt will send the CB to the outside of the contact point and closer to the GB.

Anyone have an aiming system using inside english accurately and with consistently?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hey LAMas,

I use the mechanical BHE. I set up on the shot to pocket it with center ball. I pivot over to inside english before I shoot and find it pretty accurate. It changes with speed, so practice makes it easier to adjust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egWXaywwjbk&feature=player_embedded#t=554s

I was going to talk about this in the BHE thread including swiping and crossing over the cue ball with your stroke, but some posters just won't let that happen. Too many know it alls. :smile:

Anyway, after doing it this way for a few weeks, you develop the same feel you get with outside spin. I use it when I get on a new table or to test deflection on different shafts/sticks I use. Simple, but effective.

BTW, thanks for all your diagrams and input you give to this forum. I was searching through some old threads and saw that you've put in a boatload of useful info with your posts. Keep up the good work, Big E! :thumbup:

Best,
Mike
 
When I apply inside the first thing I think about is what speed will I becoming into this shot at.This lets me determine my aiming line .
I only go on 3 lines of aim .Thick, rite on line or thin.
Speed is what determines the right line.
Its works for me.
 
8pack said:
When I apply inside the first thing I think about is what speed will I becoming into this shot at.This lets me determine my aiming line .
I only go on 3 lines of aim .Thick, rite on line or thin.
Speed is what determines the right line.
Its works for me.
Click to expand...

EY Bro! That s not complicated enough :p *jk*

keep shooting pal :)
lg
Ingo
 
Ratta said:
EY Bro! That s not complicated enough :p *jk*

keep shooting pal :)
lg
Ingo
Click to expand...

I know and i didn't reference any other sport (LIKE GOLF) in there either.

I have a black belt in taekwondo(among some of the things I have accoplished in my life) and not once have I ever got the urge to reference it to pool.

Take care my friend

Anthony
 
Mikjary said:
Hey LAMas,

I use the mechanical BHE. I set up on the shot to pocket it with center ball. I pivot over to inside english before I shoot and find it pretty accurate. It changes with speed, so practice makes it easier to adjust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egWXaywwjbk&feature=player_embedded#t=554s

I was going to talk about this in the BHE thread including swiping and crossing over the cue ball with your stroke, but some posters just won't let that happen. Too many know it alls. :smile:

Anyway, after doing it this way for a few weeks, you develop the same feel you get with outside spin. I use it when I get on a new table or to test deflection on different shafts/sticks I use. Simple, but effective.

BTW, thanks for all your diagrams and input you give to this forum. I was searching through some old threads and saw that you've put in a boatload of useful info with your posts. Keep up the good work, Big E! :thumbup:

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,
Thanks
If you stop learning, you might as well be dead.:thumbup:

I respect BHE and swipe. Whether BHE is applied pre stroke by adjusting the stance or effected by swipe, effected during the stroke - the effect should be the same.

With respect to swipe, it could be a glancing blow, especially with an open bridge - getting the cue tip away from fully impacting the CB, thus effectively lowering the mass of the front of the shaft. This harder to do with a loose closed bridge.

If one can add more friction, effective gearing and spin by putting a chalk smudge on the contact point on the OB, then cannot swipe achieve a similar effect? At the same time could swipe reduce squirt?

Be well.:smile:
 
With respect to using inside english to cut shots, speed is an essential component. Could it be that more speed (harder hit on the CB) delays swerve?

The more speed, all other things being equal, the thinner the cut.

Be well.:smile:
 
LAMas said:
With respect to using inside english to cut shots, speed is an essential component. Could it be that more speed (harder hit on the CB) delays swerve?

The more speed, all other things being equal, the thinner the cut.

Be well.:smile:
Click to expand...

Speed is essential and so is distance.
 
LAMas said:
Whether BHE is applied pre stroke by adjusting the stance or effected by swipe, effected during the stroke - the effect should be the same.
Click to expand...
With the same bridge length, using "straight-stroke" BHE vs. "swooping-stroke" BHE should produce somewhat different results. The reason is that with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack.

I'd be interested to see somebody like Joe Tucker demonstrate using both on the same shot with the same bridge length. My prediction is that the cue ball goes in different directions with the two techniques.

pj
chgo

P.S. This doesn't mean that I think swooping BHE can do things that straight BHE can't. I stand by my contention that swooping BHE is nothing more than a less-reliable substitute for stroking straight.
 
LAMas said:
With respect to swipe, it could be a glancing blow, especially with an open bridge - getting the cue tip away from fully impacting the CB, thus effectively lowering the mass of the front of the shaft.
Click to expand...
This sounds to me like a partial miscue, which would be pretty unpredictable.

And I have to ask my usual question: what prevents this from being done with a straight stroke?

If one can add more friction, effective gearing and spin by putting a chalk smudge on the contact point on the OB, then cannot swipe achieve a similar effect?
Click to expand...
Ball/ball and tip/ball interactions aren't equivalent. A chalk smudge creates more friction; a glancing blow would create less.

could swipe reduce squirt?
Click to expand...
You want maximum friction between tip and CB. A partial miscue looks like more squirt, not less (although it's not really squirt).

pj
chgo
 
I was watching Efren and when he uses an open bridge, the tip of the cue ends up away from the CB as though he is swiping to get (more?) english. When he uses a closed bridge, he says to use a tight bridge and loose grip on the butt.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
With the same bridge length, using "straight-stroke" BHE vs. "swooping-stroke" BHE should produce somewhat different results. The reason is that with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack. ...
Click to expand...

Are you talking about a "swoop" on the backswing or on the forward stroke? My guess is that for many people who use swooping BHE, the swoop (sideways movement of the back hand) occurs during the backswing. So once the backswing is completed, the stick is then stroked straight through from the same point that would be achieved on the backstroke with "straight-stroke" BHE. The angle of attack would be the same with those two techniques.

On the other hand, if the backswing is straight and the swoop occurs as the stick is stroked forward, then the angle of attack might be a bit different.

I have experimented with swooping in both ways. My consistency is better with swooping only on the backswing. But with neither form of swoop am I able to achieve any more english than I can with "straight-stroke" BHE. I test this by simply shooting the CB straight into one rail with as much english as I can produce (keeping the cue as flat as possible) and observing where it strikes the adjacent rail.
 
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AtLarge said:
Are you talking about a "swoop" on the backswing or on the forward stroke?
Click to expand...
On the forward stroke - I'm sure that's the kind of stroke that some believe does "special" things to the CB.

My guess is that for many people who use swooping BHE, the swoop (sideways movement of the back hand) occurs during the backswing. So once the backswing is completed, the stick is then stroked straight through from the same point that would be achieved on the backstroke with "straight-stroke" BHE. The angle of attack would be the same with those two techniques.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of this technique, but I agree with your conclusion that it should be functionally identical with straight-stroke BHE (except for being less reliable).

On the other hand, if the backswing is straight and the swoop occurs as the stick is stroked forward, then the angle of attack might be a bit different.
Click to expand...
I think it must be a little different. But it can be accomplished more easily and reliably with a straight stroke.

I have experimented with swooping in both ways. My consistency is better with swooping only on the backswing. But with neither form of swoop am I able to achieve any more english than I can with "straight-stroke" BHE. I test this by simply shooting straight into one rail with as much english as I can produce (keeping the cue as flat as possible) and observing where the OB strikes the adjacent rail.
Click to expand...
I've done the same comparison between straight-stroke and swoop-stroke BHE, with the same results.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
With the same bridge length, using "straight-stroke" BHE vs. "swooping-stroke" BHE should produce somewhat different results. The reason is that with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack.

I'd be interested to see somebody like Joe Tucker demonstrate using both on the same shot with the same bridge length. My prediction is that the cue ball goes in different directions with the two techniques.

pj
chgo

P.S. This doesn't mean that I think swooping BHE can do things that straight BHE can't. I stand by my contention that swooping BHE is nothing more than a less-reliable substitute for stroking straight.
Click to expand...

Pj you contradict yourself in the same post. If they produce different results how can one not do more than the other?
 
With the same bridge length, using "straight-stroke" BHE vs. "swooping-stroke" BHE should produce somewhat different results. The reason is that with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack.

I'd be interested to see somebody like Joe Tucker demonstrate using both on the same shot with the same bridge length. My prediction is that the cue ball goes in different directions with the two techniques.

pj
chgo

P.S. This doesn't mean that I think swooping BHE can do things that straight BHE can't. I stand by my contention that swooping BHE is nothing more than a less-reliable substitute for stroking straight.
Click to expand...
cookie man:
Pj you contradict yourself in the same post. If they produce different results how can one not do more than the other?
Click to expand...
LAMas:
Correct.
It isn't different unless it makes a difference...and for me it does.
Click to expand...
I knew somebody would misinterpret this - that's why I added the P.S. and was careful to point out that the reason the effects are slightly different is: "with the same bridge length...with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack."

I also said "My prediction is that the cue ball goes in different directions with the two techniques." In other words, only one of the techniques works for any given bridge length.

And none of this contradicts the fact that you can do anything more reliably and accurately with a straight stroke that you can do with a swooping stroke. In this case you'd just have to change your bridge position slightly so you could hit the same spot from the same "swoop angle" but with a straight stroke.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I knew somebody would misinterpret this - that's why I added the P.S. and was careful to point out that the reason the effects are slightly different is: "with the same bridge length...with swooping BHE the tip must hit the same CB spot from a slightly different angle of attack."

I also said "My prediction is that the cue ball goes in different directions with the two techniques." In other words, only one of the techniques works for any given bridge length.

And none of this contradicts the fact that you can do anything more reliably and accurately with a straight stroke that you can do with a swooping stroke. In this case you'd just have to change your bridge position slightly so you could hit the same spot from the same "swoop angle" but with a straight stroke.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Nice try on the spin move. I have a different opinion than you and I firmly believe you can do more things with a swoop or angled cue than you can with a straight cue. I think its quite obvious you can spin a round object more by swiping across the face of it as opposed to straight at it. I also believe with swooping you can stay closer to the center of cb while achieving the spin you get with your straight forward stroke.
 
cookie man said:
I think its quite obvious you can spin a round object more by swiping across the face of it as opposed to straight at it.
Click to expand...
You can "swipe across the face of it" with a straight stroke (after moving your bridge a little closer).

Think of how you spin a basketball on your fingertip. You don't swoop the hand that applies the spin - you swipe the ball with a straight motion of your hand. You could do it with a swooping motion, but you don't have to. You don't have to with a cue ball either.

I also believe with swooping you can stay closer to the center of cb while achieving the spin you get with your straight forward stroke.
Click to expand...
Both of these assumptions are easily proved false.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You can "swipe across the face of it" with a straight stroke (after moving your bridge a little closer).

Think of how you spin a basketball on your fingertip. You don't swoop the hand that applies the spin - you swipe the ball with a straight motion of your hand. You could do it with a swooping motion, but you don't have to. You don't have to with a cue ball either.


Both of these assumptions are easily proved false.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

You swipe across it , not straight into it.
Prove them false then.
 
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