Dangers of having a non handicapped league with matches to 100?

[Wally in Cincy]

Wally
You describe yourself as a player who gets beat a lot, 25th best. Out of curiosity to
compare to myself, what sort of runs are you capable of. I frequently run in th20's occasisionlly
in the 30's but usually get out of position somewhere in the high 20's.

I just saw this. I don't get on here much lately.
My high run is 34 on my home table, 4 x 8 Brunswick Wellington
When our league was at SnookerS in Cincy we played on 9 ft. Robertsons with easy pockets (Gold Crown clones) My high run there was 28. I ran 24 a few times and ran 14 to 18 more times than I can count.

SnookerS closed and we moved to Michael's and 9-ft. Diamonds with tight pockets. The highest I have run there is about 20. It's just so hard to play position when you have to shoot most shots at pocket speed in order for the Diamond to not spit them back out..

 

[CGM]

I totally agree with ChrisinNC… I have been running a 14.1 League in the Dallas area now for a few years. It is handicapped. That keeps players from being steamrolled. Plus, it is an incentive for the top players to knuckle down. Depending how many players sign up each season determines how many divisions. Next season I will have players going to 75, 90, 100, 110, 125 and myself to 175.... Great to hear about so many 14.1 leagues out there.

What formula do you use to establish a handicap?

 

[dmgwalsh]

I would think best chance to minimize that from happening is to require players to pay the full fee up front to cover everything (including the table time for their matches) for the entire length of the league session. That gives a them a little more incentive to hang in there and continue to play their matches even when they've been eliminated from finishing high enough to win anything or qualify for the playoffs.

Yes, it may be humiliating for a player to lose by a very lopsided score to a far superior opponent, but as others have said, that's the best way to learn! However, I don't see these non-handicapped 14.1 leagues as being much a benefit to the clear top rated players, who except when they are playing each other, can steamroll through most of their matches. By contrast, if they have to give a considerably lower rated opponent a 50, 60, or even a 70 ball spot before they even start the race to 100 match, then they have to take it far more seriously and play a much smarter game.

The top players have a shot at a pretty good payday, And they are competing with the other top players for high runs and 1st place money. Bobby Hunter, Tom Karabatsos, Ike Runnels, John Rawski and others capable of running 50 or more make it competitive at that level. When they play lesser players, it is something of a lesson for them. Sometimes the winner will go over a few things with the loser after the game.

When we started the league, some thought only a few would sign up, but it has been 30 or more every session.

 

[Rich93]

Just saw this, as I'm not a frequent visitor to AZB anymore, life gets in the way. I run the non-handicapped league that Dennis Walsh started in 2012. We play at Red Shoes Billiards in a Chicago suburb, a great room with equipment that is kept in top shape. The league has been very popular, much more so than the handicapped league I also run at Red Shoes. We currently have 35 players in the non-handicapped league. It only costs $15 per match, and that includes table time. Half goes into the prize fund.

For $15 we lesser players have the privilege of playing some of the best pool players in the Chicago area, many of whom Dennis mentioned above. We have a new player this session who ran a 58 and a 56 in the same game just this past week. It is a dead certainly that we wouldn't attract the quality of players that we do if it were a handicapped league - we know that because until 2012 Red Shoes ran only a handicapped league, and once the non-handicapped league started our better players all left to play in the new league.

Thanks to Dennis's recruitment efforts early on, we were able to attract some hundred ball runners to the league who had never bothered with the handicapped league. Ike Runnels, who plays all games at a high level, holds our league high run record of 165 (a player may continue a run if he ends the game on a run of 30 or more). Incidentally, Ike says that he will always play in the league because straight pool helps improve all his games.

As Slach, one of our players, suggests, I have to emphasize to the group the necessity of everybody getting their games played against prize money contenders. Sometimes there's a player or two whom I have to nudge individually. But it has been a manageable problem, and it's not surprising given 35 different personalities. I hesitate to make big changes to solve what has been a minor problem, and it's mainly a problem just for me.

I thank everyone for their good suggestions. I'm not saying the league couldn't be improved and I am open to change, but I am quite hesitant to mess with success.

 

[Positively Ralf]

Just saw this, as I'm not a frequent visitor to AZB anymore, life gets in the way. I run the non-handicapped league that Dennis Walsh started in 2012. We play at Red Shoes Billiards in a Chicago suburb, a great room with equipment that is kept in top shape. The league has been very popular, much more so than the handicapped league I also run at Red Shoes. We currently have 35 players in the non-handicapped league. It only costs $15 per match, and that includes table time. Half goes into the prize fund.

For $15 we lesser players have the privilege of playing some of the best pool players in the Chicago area, many of whom Dennis mentioned above. We have a new player this session who ran a 58 and a 56 in the same game just this past week. It is a dead certainly that we wouldn't attract the quality of players that we do if it were a handicapped league - we know that because until 2012 Red Shoes ran only a handicapped league, and once the non-handicapped league started our better players all left to play in the new league.

Thanks to Dennis's recruitment efforts early on, we were able to attract some hundred ball runners to the league who had never bothered with the handicapped league. Ike Runnels, who plays all games at a high level, holds our league high run record of 165 (a player may continue a run if he ends the game on a run of 30 or more). Incidentally, Ike says that he will always play in the league because straight pool helps improve all his games.

As Slach, one of our players, suggests, I have to emphasize to the group the necessity of everybody getting their games played against prize money contenders. Sometimes there's a player or two whom I have to nudge individually. But it has been a manageable problem, and it's not surprising given 35 different personalities. I hesitate to make big changes to solve what has been a minor problem, and it's mainly a problem just for me.

I thank everyone for their good suggestions. I'm not saying the league couldn't be improved and I am open to change, but I am quite hesitant to mess with success.

Great post aswell as others above. I have talked to a lot of players at my room and they really just want to play in a non handicap league. I will definitely take into account a lot of the ideas thrown in here. Races to 100 each week with two wild cards sounds like a good starting plan.

I will use something like an Elo tracker or other ranking system to have some sort of nice excel sheet made.

 

[Positively Ralf]

Hey hey hey! Just had to share this idea with you guys that someone passed on to me and would love to hear your opinions. I told one of the players about a non handicapped, races to 100 and they love the idea. But to make it fair to the lesser skilled players, mainly in the C-D range, do what the UBL does and give them ball in hand, but only during break shots.

I was thinking about it and it may not be a bad idea.

 

[Dan White]

Hey hey hey! Just had to share this idea with you guys that someone passed on to me and would love to hear your opinions. I told one of the players about a non handicapped, races to 100 and they love the idea. But to make it fair to the lesser skilled players, mainly in the C-D range, do what the UBL does and give them ball in hand, but only during break shots.

I was thinking about it and it may not be a bad idea.

Are you playing a race to 100 games in 9 ball or are you playing 100 point straight pool matches?

 

[RobMan]

I clip ....Next season I will have players going to 75, 90, 100, 110, 125 and myself to 175.... Great to hear about so many 14.1 leagues out there.

Your spread sounds similar to ours. We do struggle with getting enough players, as most folks around here (NW Atlanta suburbs) either play league 8 or 9 ball or are one pocket players. This season we have just 10 players - handicaps of 60, 75, 80, 85, 100, 105, 110, 115, 140, and 185.

We play on Diamonds generally, and high runs can be tough to come by. Our 185 has a 51, the 140 (me) has just a 25, our 115 jumped on a 29, and the rest are in the teens to a low of 11 for our 60.

We do incentivize on high run which is weighted off our 185. So the 11 by our 60 calculates to a 34 ball run, while my 25 works out to a 33. We do this to keep the lower handicap players from getting frustrated as well as giving the incentive to play for runs if that makes sense.



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[ChrisinNC]

Was talking with a fellow 14.1 league member and he suggested a league where all matches are to 100 with top 8 playoffs.

I've never ran a league but what problems would arise if you were to do something like that? I'm assuming the biggest problem would be the higher level player steamrolling everyone, even though that happens already in 9 ball leagues.

Yes, if you have a huge discrepancy in skill levels and 14.1 experience between the strongest and weakest players in the same league in which they play each other, very lobsided score results in straight pool races to 100 could possibly result in embarrassing and discouraging some newer and lower skilled players to the point that they quit participating in the league altogether, which would be unfortunate.