Danny Harriman Controversy

It's funny when you herald these guys as professionals and yet you aspire to hold them to rules they didn't even make. Parica, Varner and Harriman are short people. Why should tall Johhny Archer get an advantage just because he is taller than them?

Why aren't any of you advocating a bridge zone? Okay, to make this fair we are gong to draw a rectangle on the felt and whenever the cueball is in that rectangle and the player's body stretches out beyond x-degrees then the bridge must be used regardless of actual ability to reach the shot without it.

What if Danny went to his chair and put on some really elegant platform shoes that gave him an extra foot in height? Would that have been okay?

You can take this out as far as you want to go but the facts are that Danny played the right shot within the rules and HARMED no one. IF that shot gets on TV it will be celebrated as a creative solution by a talented professional. And we'll have people crawling up on tables across the globe :-)

John
 
The rules draw the line. There are rules against shoplifting. Rules against murder. No rules against gay sex. No rule against climbing on the table. There is a rule about sportsmanship which Johnny Archer violated in my opinion.

John
 
public places says no shirt, shoes! no service!

danny harriman was completely out of line here!
at the worlds biggest payout tourney and strict rules of dress codes
and conduct layed out by kevin trudeau. your going to take off your shoes
and climb on top of the table like a monkey to make a shot!
that does not sound like very respectful behavior to me!i mean when ever do you see that anyways ive never seen that even at low class bars!
 
johnrp2005 said:
danny harriman was completely out of line here!
at the worlds biggest payout tourney and strict rules of dress codes
and conduct layed out by kevin trudeau. your going to take off your shoes
and climb on top of the table like a monkey to make a shot!
that does not sound like very respectful behavior to me!i mean when ever do you see that anyways ive never seen that even at low class bars!
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Are you mental, he asked the ref if it was ok and he told him to take his shoes off? :rolleyes:

I don't think players should be allowed to do it BUT whats that got to do with Danny if he asked?
 
MyraCurfs said:
Can you believe this! Linda: you said the oldest rule was to keep one shoe on the ground! Well i know another one: Do NOT sit on the tables!

http://photos.internationalpooltour.com/cpg/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=221
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I think you attributed the oldest rule quote to me when it wasn't I. I also know that people sit one butt cheek on the table all the time with one foot on the floor. The other leg is usually bent onto the table, with the foot near the crotch area. This is a position I could easily assume if it wasn't required that my other foot be touching the floor. :( Unless they lowered the tables to 2' off the ground, lol.
 
I've read all this B.S., and i'm still trying to figure out where all the controversy stems from. The only controversy I see, is that Archer show some unsportsman like conduct.

If someone plays "WITHIN THE RULES", then how is that controversial???
End of story.

Rodney
 
Pro golfers do it all the time. Big friggin deal. One foot on the floor is stupid rule anyway.
 
johnrp2005 said:
danny harriman was completely out of line here!
at the worlds biggest payout tourney and strict rules of dress codes
and conduct layed out by kevin trudeau. your going to take off your shoes
and climb on top of the table like a monkey to make a shot!
that does not sound like very respectful behavior to me!i mean when ever do you see that anyways ive never seen that even at low class bars!
Click to expand...

Well you don't actually see that sign anymore. Now it just reads "no service".

Actually, Danny climbed on the table to make a shot LIKE A PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYER. Because, as a professional he took the time to observe the conduct of the other players, know the rules and verify his actions before he took them.

Why are you worrying about it? Get your low class bar owners to ante up for some equipment worth climbing on before you try to make that comparison.

John
 
I'm originally from Louisiana and we were told one foot on the floor. It would have been easier for me since I can't shoot left handed. Its always been a written rule in our tour. If in doubt how someone might take it then write it down.
K
 
Has anybody notice other rules that the IPT missed. We had a great discussion about the missing "Stalemate" rule and how the TD announced "no more safeties" on that match running late. What other rules might they be missing from their Real Rules (more like Reeling Rules imo).

Dave
 
I dont know if anyone remebers Boston Shorty's rules. being a player of smaller stature, it was part of his rules to climb on a table, especially in the days of the 5x10's. Freddy has posted pictures of himself crawling around like a monkey on one of these tables. I dont think the 1 ft on the floor rule is as obvious as many of you think. And as far as taking his shoes off, I feel he was just being courteous to the table not wanting to get shoe dirt or other stuff found on the soles. In my humble opinion he absolved himself of this controversy when he aksed permission from the ref to play the shot the way he did. Well played Danny.
 
Koop said:
I'll jst ask a question with no intentions or arguing.

Didn't Danny play by the rules? I wasn't there and actually never heard of a rule where you didn't have to leave one foot on the floor but, if the rules say it's ok and there is that much money on the line, I say more power to him.
IMO, Archer is the one a thread should be started about, not Danny. He was the one IMO who broke the code of conduct in not shaking Danny's hand.

Just some observations from someone on the outside looking in.

Thanks,
Koop
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Koop ~ I totally agree with you.
Here's another question. Why is there NOT 3 other threads regarding A) Johnny's POOR sportsmanship B) Nick Varner's Monkey Shot C) Parica's Monkey Shot?

Danny was neither out of line nor did he purposely study the rule book for loop holes. Give me a break! Common all who said that he studied the book for loop holes, Danny does have a life you know.

There are always some people that just aren't happy and you can't please them. I personally feel they are full of monkey business!
 
Well, whatever it was originally, the rule is *now* one foot on the floor. With regard to "the oldest rule" issue, on the streaming coverage today, Deno told Varner that he (Deno) had researched the question and found the rule against climbing on the table dating back to 1685 (I believe it was 1685, and I'm certain it was "16something").

-- jwp
 
Eydie Romano said:
Koop

There are always some people that just aren't happy and you can't please them.
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I hope that such Irrational,Unfair and vicious people will NOT be sitting in the jury if I am charged with committing a crime.:cool:
 
The ref is the one who made the mistake in the Harriman controversy. The ref is not supposed to explain a rule to a player or answer a question BEFORE the shot. The player shoots the shot, and THEN the ref makes a ruling. It is up to the player to know the rules. The ref is not supposed to explain the rules or give any indication before a shot. Now, if the ref had said to Harriman, "Just make your shot and then I make a call" (like he should have), I doubt that Harriman would have climbed on the table. By the way, I agree that one-foot-on-the-floor should be a universal rule because it protects the equipment.
 
to all those people who are having a go at danny harriman,lay off,I had the pleasure of playing him in reno,and he was a true gentlemen and a great player,nick varner also took his shoes off in my game and climbed on the table,but I shook his hand,it was in the rules and danny exploited it along with vaerner and whoever else that could not reach certain shots.danny certainly did not cheat.
brian saleh.
 
Rarelymisses said:
The ref is the one who made the mistake in the Harriman controversy. The ref is not supposed to explain a rule to a player or answer a question BEFORE the shot. The player shoots the shot, and THEN the ref makes a ruling. It is up to the player to know the rules. The ref is not supposed to explain the rules or give any indication before a shot. Now, if the ref had said to Harriman, "Just make your shot and then I make a call" (like he should have), I doubt that Harriman would have climbed on the table. By the way, I agree that one-foot-on-the-floor should be a universal rule because it protects the equipment.
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Would you please quote a set of rules that says you can't ask a ref a question about rules.

I have never heard of such a thing.

Answering rules questions is definitely part of a referee's job and a smart player will ask the question before taking the questionable shot.
 
I dont appreciate my post being deleted. I was not out of line, rarely misses is out of line.

Have a great day.
 
I'm surprised that several people here feel that the "one foot on the floor" rule is a bad one. I respectfully disagree. I don't know how that rule originated, but I have an argument for why it should stay: It greatly reduces the risk of someone sitting on the cushion and causing damage to it.

A lot of casual pool players in the bars and poolhalls probably don't even realize that they could mess up the cushion like that, however, most of them do know the foot-on-floor rule, fortunately. I'm glad the IPT changed their rules to include this one. If they continued to leave that rule out and if it started catching on, eventually it might not be good for poolhall owners.

I don't think Danny was out of line for what he did. He didn't make the rules. I don't know why some are saying it is morally or ethically wrong to climb on the table. Its not unethical, any more than playing a masse or jump shot is. Yes, you can damage the equipment if you don't know what you're doing, or if you're not careful. Therefore, it is unethical to do it in a poolhall, for example, without permission. That doesn't apply here. He had permission. Its up to the people in charge to make the rules. Its up to the players to follow them.

Also, if a rule is left out by accident, and its brought to the attention of the officials, I don't understand what is stopping them from making an announcement that there was an error in the rule book and from this point forward such-and-such a rule is in effect. All this drama for nothing, in my opinion. At least we got RJ's funny song out of it.

Oh, and Johnny was out of line, IMO. Hopefully, it was just a reaction and he didn't really mean it. I'd assume that all the players felt a lot of pressure out there, and he might have just misdirected his frustrations with this unorthodox rule. It'd be nice if he would apologize to Danny for it, IMO.
 
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