Deep Seated Bitterness

[watchez]

As much as I hate to agree with you I have to agree that it's disgraceful to continually brag about how your tour is the greatest and then string the players along. Any of us that have a business know that it's easy to write checks, especially non-payroll checks. Any of us could have done the IPT check disbursement within a few hours at most.

John

John, I replied to you under a new thread. Don't worry it is ok to agree with me, sometimes.

 

[straybullet]

Well Dear, as always it's been fun defeating your weak and feeble attempts to debate me. I am afraid that you will never be able to win against me no matter how many degrees you obtain. You are just on the wrong side of reason. Try again though. You are good sport for me.

John

No, John, I'm not trying to win anything. I needn't try very hard as your arrogance overrides your logic. It takes you 11 paragraphs to say what most educated people could say in one sentence. Your comparison of my portfolio against a walmart truck driver... hmmm... wanna bet? lol. I guess if you cant defend the issues youre left to resort to personal attacks, which is fine by me. I've fought with you before, and though youre not as entertaining as Fast Larry, you're on the same intellect level - almost.

Anyway, Mr. Smartypants Barton,
Answer these questions

1. How is the IPT generating revenue that will exceed their expenses? Be specific.

2. Are KT's verbal promises of $100K salaries legal and binding? If so, where is that money coming from? KT's personal account, or the IPT's?

3. What current tangible assets does the IPT have that justify a $150M price tag. Key words are "current" & "tangible".

4. Will their current liabilities in addition to the proposed dividends for 2007 exceed their revenues for 2006?

Don't give me these silly "I don't know" answers. If you are confident that the IPT will thrive and succeed and that I am wrong despite my education, these should be very easy questions for you to answer. If you can't answer those questions, then what is your basis for saying that the IPT is not in the red?

 

[memikey]

The IPT is modeled after the PGA Tour and being allowed to play on that requires that you finish in the top 150 on the money list.

If the IPT succeeds then 100,000 a year minimum guaranteed before expenses is a pretty good living for a pool player. That's more than a career salary for most professionals in most fields.

John

John......you frequently refer to the modelling of The IPT Tour on The PGA Tour but frankly that is a comparison which stems from an overall notion that requires quantum leaps on several different fronts to merit even the remotest shred of relevance.

Firstly,whether we pool players and pool enthusiasts like it or not,the regrettable underlying reality is that in the eyes of the majority of the public golf is a respectable outdoor sport run by respectable organisations and played by respectable individuals whereas pool is a disreputable indoor pastime run by seedy organisations and played by even seedier individuals.There are even still many dinosaur potential employers around whose Recruitment Managers would frown upon job applicants who have listed pool as their favourite sport or hobby on their application form and parents who would hit the roof if their daughter brought home a pool player as a fiance.

Of course every organisation has to start somewhere and from little acorns oak trees grow but there are far too many fundamental differences between The PGA Tour and any perceived new International Pool Tour for such tour modelling to even be a wholly sensible concept or strategy.You cannot just pick out one tiny part of the overall model for an organisation like The PGA Tour,apply it to pool and expect everything else to fall into place in the same way.It only works for The PGA Tour as part of a much bigger strategical whole.

Furthermore,on a more philosophical front,The PGA Tour is a tax exempt organisation with reliable goals for the sport as a whole and with a huge emphasis upon directing excess income towards charities.Call me a cynic but I doubt that there will ever be a Pool Tour built upon similar goals or aspirations.

I love the game of pool to bits,have done for many years,play to a reasonabe non-world beating standard and have competed with moderate success in several sizeable events,but despite that and despite trying very hard I just can't even bring myself to think of pool realistically as a "sport",so what realistic chance of your average non-pool playing guy in the street being wooed into any interest in it as a sport or as a spectacle? Unfortunately,to the vast majority of people on this planet pool is and always will be perceived to be an excruciatingly boring,relatively unskilled,seedy little indoor pastime

On the other hand am certainly looking forward to making my debut apperance on The European PGA Seniors Tour Championship in November....though alas as an amateur no part of the event's US$500,000/- prize fund will come to me even if I were to fluke a result.......another big fundamental diference from pool tours

 

[X Breaker]

I am wondering if you think that it might be possible for the IPT to generate more revenue and profit in the near future, even though it may be running at a loss at the moment. (I do not know if they are running at a loss. I am just saying this for argument's sake)

I am asking because speaking from personal experience, I know it takes a lot to start a business and sometimes even more to expose and market a business. Money does not come in right away.

So, a lot of business will be running at a loss in the beginning. There will come a point when the company can start to make money. I think that point is called the break even point or something like that.

So, even if the IPT is not generating enough revenue right now to cover its expenses (once again, I am just saying it as an assumption), is it possible that it is spending what it is spending as a way to expose and market itself, in the hopes of generating revenue and profit in the future?

About why they sell the IPT, I really do not know why they did it. I have seen companies sold while they were not making big money because the owner was interested in selling the business right from the start. Some owners are just not very interested in running a business, but they have brilliant ideas about how to set up and start a potentially profitable business. The buyer is buying the concept and idea and brand image of this new business and he will try to turn it into a profitable business with his own network, management and marketing skill and so forth. Sometimes, is it ture that a buyer buys a business based on its potential, rather than its actual asset?

I do not know if this is the case with the IPT, but I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thank you.

Richard

 

[Noodles]

No, John, I'm not trying to win anything. I needn't try very hard as your arrogance overrides your logic. It takes you 11 paragraphs to say what most educated people could say in one sentence. Your comparison of my portfolio against a walmart truck driver... hmmm... wanna bet? lol. I guess if you cant defend the issues youre left to resort to personal attacks, which is fine by me. I've fought with you before, and though youre not as entertaining as Fast Larry, you're on the same intellect level - almost.

Anyway, Mr. Smartypants Barton,
Answer these questions

1. How is the IPT generating revenue that will exceed their expenses? Be specific.

2. Are KT's verbal promises of $100K salaries legal and binding? If so, where is that money coming from? KT's personal account, or the IPT's?

3. What current tangible assets does the IPT have that justify a $150M price tag. Key words are "current" & "tangible".

4. Will their current liabilities in addition to the proposed dividends for 2007 exceed their revenues for 2006?

Don't give me these silly "I don't know" answers. If you are confident that the IPT will thrive and succeed and that I am wrong despite my education, these should be very easy questions for you to answer. If you can't answer those questions, then what is your basis for saying that the IPT is not in the red?

You are feisty! My admiration for you increases with every post.

 

[Purdman]

You are feisty! My admiration for you increases with every post.

I agree Noodles, the gal ain't lost one yet to ol John boy even though he thinks she has. She is one smart cookie. John is, well, John!
Purdman

PS: You Rock Gal!!!!

 

[jjinfla]

Walmart truck drivers with fantastic portfolio?

Maybe a portfolio of 1 stock. If they purchased 100 shares of WMT at the IPO then they sure enough have wealth.

Good thing to keep in mind when the IPO for the IPT comes out.

Jake

 

[GADawg]

I agree Noodles, the gal ain't lost one yet to ol John boy even though he thinks she has. She is one smart cookie. John is, well, John!
Purdman

PS: You Rock Gal!!!!

I agree. She's got his number and playing him like a radio.

Only problem is that attempts to use logic in a discussion like this are usually doomed to derision and personal attack.

 

[jjinfla]

Answer these questions

1. How is the IPT generating revenue that will exceed their expenses? Be specific.

2. Are KT's verbal promises of $100K salaries legal and binding? If so, where is that money coming from? KT's personal account, or the IPT's?

3. What current tangible assets does the IPT have that justify a $150M price tag. Key words are "current" & "tangible".

4. Will their current liabilities in addition to the proposed dividends for 2007 exceed their revenues for 2006?

Don't give me these silly "I don't know" answers. If you are confident that the IPT will thrive and succeed and that I am wrong despite my education, these should be very easy questions for you to answer. If you can't answer those questions, then what is your basis for saying that the IPT is not in the red?

I asked the same questions when I heard Sigel talking about the sale a few months back.

Just what is it that is being sold? The players? The films of the matches that have taken place? The IPT name? The IPT business plan?

It sure would be nice to see exactly what the IPT business plan really is.

How can the IPT make money? How can it be profitable? The only way that I can see this happening is for it to get TV contracts with good sponsorship. That may happen here with Versus. Probably a better chance for success on TV overseas.

Well if that woman can spend 24 million dollars just to fly to outer space and back I suppose KT can spend a few million bucks enjoying himself for a couple years backing pool players.

How about that woman? From Iran. Came here, taught herself English, started a tech company with her husband and then sold it for 500 million dollars.

I still say enjoy it while it lasts.

Jake

 

[pooltchr]

I am asking because speaking from personal experience, I know it takes a lot to start a business and sometimes even more to expose and market a business. Money does not come in right away.


Thank you.

Richard

Richard...Very good point. The average new business in this country can expect to become profitable in 3 to 5 years...if they survive. Most new businesses are under-funded, and don't make it that long. I think KT probably understands that and has made allowances for it. I doubt if he expected to make a profit in the first few years. I suspect he has a business plan and a timeline to show a profit. None of us has access to that information, so we can only guess. He has stated that he expects his greatest source of revenue will come from television advertising. It takes time to build that part of the business. I don't think he started the IPT with the intent of losing money. He seems to be too smart of a businessman for that.
Steve

 

[pooltchr]

.. The tour regardless of the money is very small in scope and only for a select group of players. It will be very very hard to get on and even harder to stay on. .

This is true for any sport. What percentage of college basketball players actually end up in the NBA? How about college football players? The percentage of players who actually make it is quite small. And even when training camp opens, nearly 40% of those who are there will be cut before the season starts. And these are the best of the best who actually got invited to TRY OUT for a team. The simple fact is ANY sport at the professional level is designed only for those elite few who have reached excellence in their chosen field.
Steve

 

[straybullet]

I am wondering if you think that it might be possible for the IPT to generate more revenue and profit in the near future, even though it may be running at a loss at the moment. (I do not know if they are running at a loss. I am just saying this for argument's sake)

Richard, I believe it is POSSIBLE, just not probable. Any business that is started needs capital to ensure that they will stay afloat. Positive cash flow is critical to your success. Without it your business will fail. KT has paid out millions of dollars so far. I'm sure that he has probably only made a fraction of his investment in returns.

I am asking because speaking from personal experience, I know it takes a lot to start a business and sometimes even more to expose and market a business. Money does not come in right away.

Correct. That is why raising capital beforehand and generating accurate revenue projections in your business plan are very important. Most people either raise money through venture capital or loans. Nobody is going to lend you money unless you show them how you plan on making it back. In KT's case, he claims to be his own bank, and he says he has financed this himself. If this tour is so successful, then why is he getting rid of it? If its still premature to measure their success or falure, then why is it being sold? Wouldnt it be smarter to wait a bit longer until the business survives its growing pains and then sell?

So, a lot of business will be running at a loss in the beginning. There will come a point when the company can start to make money. I think that point is called the break even point or something like that.

Like I said, they are nowhere near this point. I believe he is holding his assets and the player payouts to generate inaccurate numbers for FY2006.

So, even if the IPT is not generating enough revenue right now to cover its expenses (once again, I am just saying it as an assumption), is it possible that it is spending what it is spending as a way to expose and market itself, in the hopes of generating revenue and profit in the future?

That could be. However, in your heart do you think that is working? I don't.

About why they sell the IPT, I really do not know why they did it. I have seen companies sold while they were not making big money because the owner was interested in selling the business right from the start. Some owners are just not very interested in running a business, but they have brilliant ideas about how to set up and start a potentially profitable business. The buyer is buying the concept and idea and brand image of this new business and he will try to turn it into a profitable business with his own network, management and marketing skill and so forth. Sometimes, is it ture that a buyer buys a business based on its potential, rather than its actual asset?

What if Mr. Ho purchases the IPT and folds it - Liquidates the supposed $150M or whatever assets the IPT currently has? The profit potential (albeit on the surface) has not been shown.

I do not know if this is the case with the IPT, but I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thank you.

My thoughts is that this was nothing more than a case of Angel Investing. - if you want to know how the IPT was designed by KT, please click that link. That will explain alot to many people that are wondering why he is trying to sell it and why Mr. Ho is wanting to buy it.

 

[DaveK]

Walmart truck drivers with fantastic portfolio?

Maybe a portfolio of 1 stock. If they purchased 100 shares of WMT at the IPO then they sure enough have wealth.

Good thing to keep in mind when the IPO for the IPT comes out.

Jake

I doubt if KT's idea of a good business plan includes selling his company in such a way that it puts his business under the Security Commission's disclosure and reporting rules. Of course we'd all know what his expenses and revenues are if he did, and what fun would that be ?

Dave

 

[DaveK]

I believe he is holding his assets and the player payouts to generate inaccurate numbers for FY2006.

This does not sound right to me, for the following reasons :

Who needs to be fooled by this charade ? Not the IRS, he's fudging the wrong way. Not Mr. Ho, his due diligence will surely see through this and what kind of a fool would try to pull the wool over a buyers eyes to this extent. Not the Securities and Exchange Commission, they don't care.

The expenses are acrued when due, not when paid.

Of course I am not an accountant, I'm a simple engineer.

Dave

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Just a side a note; Amazon.com is still yet to make a profit, but they are still out there after 10 years or so. I think a good business plan is better in the long run, than trying to make money immediately.

Going back to my thread, I started it because there are quite a posts that sound like the poster wants IPT to fail. He/she might not say it directly, but reading thru the post will give you that impression.

 

[jimmyg]

I doubt if KT's idea of a good business plan includes selling his company in such a way that it puts his business under the Security Commission's disclosure and reporting rules. Of course we'd all know what his expenses and revenues are if he did, and what fun would that be ?

Dave

Only publicly owned companies are subject to SEC filing and reporting requirements. I do not believe that the IPT is a public company. KT and the SEC are not on the best of terms. LOL

 

[Nostroke]

Walmart truck drivers with fantastic portfolio?

Maybe a portfolio of 1 stock. If they purchased 100 shares of WMT at the IPO then they sure enough have wealth.

Good thing to keep in mind when the IPO for the IPT comes out.

Jake

There is no IPO for the IPT that i know of- There is allegedly an IPO of Ho Interactive of which the IPT may or not be a small part of at that time.

 

[Nostroke]

Just a side a note; Amazon.com is still yet to make a profit, but they are still out there after 10 years or so. I think a good business plan is better in the long run, than trying to make money immediately.

Going back to my thread, I started it because there are quite a posts that sound like the poster wants IPT to fail. He/she might not say it directly, but reading thru the post will give you that impression.

Amazon has made a profit .71/share currently.

 

[wayne]

I agree Noodles, the gal ain't lost one yet to ol John boy even though he thinks she has. She is one smart cookie. John is, well, John!
Purdman

PS: You Rock Gal!!!!

I read all of the posts and I think OnepocketChump makes the better points. Stray Bullet intentionally throws out false date for e.g. "How do they justify the $150 million price tag?", everyone on here that has read the posts knows there never was a $150 million price tag and I am sure StrayBullet knows this also. (Probably only the buyers people and the sellers know the actual price tag.)

If you look at what they are saying in an unbiased way (not sure anyone can do this especially you Purdman) you might not side completely with one or the other. The IPT could be a sunk ship or it could be true that they have a huge number of sponsors lined up and Mr. Ho becoming 100% owner. I don't know for sure either way and I am pretty sure only a few at the IPT know for sure and no one else.

Wayne

 

[straybullet]

I read all of the posts and I think OnepocketChump makes the better points. Stray Bullet intentionally throws out false date for e.g. "How do they justify the $150 million price tag?", everyone on here that has read the posts knows there never was a $150 million price tag and I am sure StrayBullet knows this also. (Probably only the buyers people and the sellers know the actual price tag.)

If you look at what they are saying in an unbiased way (not sure anyone can do this especially you Purdman) you might not side completely with one or the other. The IPT could be a sunk ship or it could be true that they have a huge number of sponsors lined up and Mr. Ho becoming 100% owner. I don't know for sure either way and I am pretty sure only a few at the IPT know for sure and no one else.

Wayne

Wayne

That false data came straight from Kevin Trudeau's lips. I'm not competing with onepocketchumpsters, I am just looking at it realistically from a professional standpoint. You can agree or disagree with me - thats inconsequential, but we can both deduce that there are too many unknowns to make a determination of what is actually going on.