Too much for who?Jude Rosenstock said:
Deflection Anyone??
- Thread starter IamCalvin06
- Start date
More flexibility in the shaft doesn't = less squirt. It's the weight of the tip area that matters.randyg said:
Some people like the intellectual aspect of pool as much as the game itself. To some people, undestanding how something works is just as intriguing as making it work. [i.e., Fred, PJ, MikePage, RonSheppard, Dr.Dave, etc]Jude Rosenstock said:
I believe both perspectives are accepted in the pool world. Besides, without the thinkers, where would the new innovations come from? Phelan comes to mind...
As I understand Randy's other post, he is creating a semantic conundrum. Basically, saying deflection only applies to the shaft means that the shaft has to deflect in order for the cue ball to not squirt (either the cue ball has to squirt or the shaft has to deflect). So, with this understanding, Predator must have created a high deflection shaft because the cue ball does not squirt. This would be equivalent to the premise that less effective mass = more deflection (of the shaft).randyg said:
Randy - is that what you meant?
-td
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That would be correct imo.td873 said:
Thank You
i would like to thank everyone for posting on this thread. the information and insight you guys provide is great!
i never thought that this topic would get sooOo much attention, but nonetheless all of your opinions help my learning curve tremendously!
i would like to thank everyone for posting on this thread. the information and insight you guys provide is great!
i never thought that this topic would get sooOo much attention, but nonetheless all of your opinions help my learning curve tremendously!
Jude Rosenstock said:
Being from the old school, none of this deflection stuff was discussed years ago. I tend to agree with Jude and the statement in terms of being a better player. Don't let all this clutter your thinking.
On the other hand it may be interesting in terms of physics and if this interest sparks your desire to play ... who knows.
I have never considered this much. I play with a whippy shaft cause I'm used to it. Thinking about what is a better way to go, I compare the cue stick to a car's shock absorber and my ass to the cue ball.
I'd rather have the shock bouncing around I suppose while my butt rides smooth.
some advantages to a "regular" shaft
I need to be brief, but:
1 - Yes, there are some shots that can be made by taking
advantage of squirt. One I have experimented with, is
when cue and object ball are straight in line with the corner,
and you want to play shape 3 rails. Shot #13 from Kinister's
first tape.
2 - It seems a "regular shaft" will generate more draw in
almost all cases. The cue ball is deflected upwards, into
the air (more), resulting in less friction with the cloth,
resulting in less backspin being lost on the path to the
object ball.
I need to be brief, but:
1 - Yes, there are some shots that can be made by taking
advantage of squirt. One I have experimented with, is
when cue and object ball are straight in line with the corner,
and you want to play shape 3 rails. Shot #13 from Kinister's
first tape.
2 - It seems a "regular shaft" will generate more draw in
almost all cases. The cue ball is deflected upwards, into
the air (more), resulting in less friction with the cloth,
resulting in less backspin being lost on the path to the
object ball.
Good points.
btw, a cluster gear is the gear set ya break when you don't use a spool.
Of course if you are running a car with a sun gear and no break, your odds of breaking a cluster gear decrease dramatically as opposed to a stiff 3 finger set up that doesn't preload the driveline.
btw, a cluster gear is the gear set ya break when you don't use a spool.
Of course if you are running a car with a sun gear and no break, your odds of breaking a cluster gear decrease dramatically as opposed to a stiff 3 finger set up that doesn't preload the driveline.
It depends on how far back you go. There is a diagram from 1839 -- in Kentfield's book, written over 160 years ago -- that shows aim-and-pivot squirt compensation. I think the fact that more recent players seem to either know nothing about squirt or think techniques like aim-and-pivot (and backhand english) are new says a lot about how likely they are to read books and the state of pool instruction in the US.3andstop said:
I have a copy of an even older work that seems to be by the guy who invented the leather tip. It also seems to show aim-and-pivot squirt compensation.
over my head
Whew, that went over my head. I've rebuilt a top end on a car (1987 Starion!), and a lot of other
stuff, but I'm not familiar with any of the terms you used. FYI - That phrase in my signature comes
from a line in the movie "The Baltimore Bullet".
One of the main characters is a pool hustler, who borrows a mechanic's uniform while their car is
being serviced. He gets caught by someone recognizing him from a magazine, and he is trying to
convince the "marks" that he is a mechanic. One of them asks him that question, which of course
he can't answer, and his cover is blown.
3andstop said:Good points.
btw, a cluster gear is the gear set ya break when you don't use a spool.
Of course if you are running a car with a sun gear and no break, your odds of breaking a cluster gear decrease dramatically as opposed to a stiff 3 finger set up that doesn't preload the driveline.
Whew, that went over my head. I've rebuilt a top end on a car (1987 Starion!), and a lot of other
stuff, but I'm not familiar with any of the terms you used. FYI - That phrase in my signature comes
from a line in the movie "The Baltimore Bullet".
One of the main characters is a pool hustler, who borrows a mechanic's uniform while their car is
being serviced. He gets caught by someone recognizing him from a magazine, and he is trying to
convince the "marks" that he is a mechanic. One of them asks him that question, which of course
he can't answer, and his cover is blown.
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Cornerman said:
Hi guys here is a question that i wanted to ask for long...... like the dia where you can see the cue angle is different from the aiming angle, is this the right way to play english on the cue ball or is it better to have the cue stick parallel with the aiming angle.... I hope you have got my point. As in the cue would be straight and not like the dia....
Vijesh
Not only is it "better" to angle the stick a little, it's the only way to make shots with sidespin.
When you use sidespin the cue ball doesn't travel parallel with your cue - it travels at a slight angle to it. That's the whole reason for all the attention paid to sidespin and squirt (the name for this angular motion of the cue ball), and probably the biggest reason pool is as difficult as it is.
All the techniques you hear about for "reducing squirt" are actually just ways of adjusting your aim so you end up hitting the shot at a slight angle to *compensate* for squirt - the squirt doesn't go away; it just gets adjusted for. There's no known way to make squirt disappear, but the "little masse" ("swerve") you experience on most sidespin shots does reduce the net *effect* of squirt, reducing the amount of aim adjustment needed. However, the effect of swerve is even harder to estimate than the effect of squirt, so it isn't a positive addition to the aiming/shooting puzzle.
pj
chgo
My diagram might be exaggerated for clarity. But, nevertheless, with a normal cue, you're going to be angled and not parallel when you hit a firm shot with english where swerve isn't going to too much in effect.vijesh said:
Is it better? There is no "better." Some shots, you'll be aiming closer to parallel because the swerve & throw will nearly offset the squirt. Most players automatically will compensate their aim, so they may not realize they're parallel or not parallel.
Fred
All cues have deflection so it is a matter of what you get used to.
txplshrk said:
I think this is bang on what the true Predator or OB1 advantage is. Deflection and how much happens depends on the shooter's stroke. That said, because of "radial consistency" the hit on the cue will feel the same for all 360 degrees of rotation. If you want to test this difference in feeling hit a Meucci Black Dot shaft with the dot facing straight up. Now turn the cue 90 degrees and hit the same shot. Feel different? Try that with a Predator. Same feel.
One should remember though that squirt or deflection is an important part of pool. Learn to use a Predator or OB1 so you can still squirt or deflect a shot when you need to. For example, long cuts where you need to throw the OB or a swerve/masse.
td873 said:
Okay, I'll put it another way. Imagine being in a forum with a bunch of baseball players and there was a thread about the mathematical principals behind determining the destination of a fly-ball. I mean, we can sit here and discuss every single aspect behind what contributes to the flight of a baseball - spin, speed, wind, humidity, etc. but the fact is, you just go out there and catch the darn thing.
Pool is the same way. Yes, I understand it's important to understand what goes on to a certain extent but only on a rudamentary level. The bottom line is, you still have to make the ball. If, when you use right english, you always miss on one side, you should take that information into consideration the next time you use right english. I don't think much more thought needs to be factored into it.
whitey2 said:
LOL Whitey ...
I was trying to goof with ya in mechanics lingo
I didn't know about that line from the movie.
A cluster gear of course is another term for spider gears in a rear end differential. They orbit when a car turns allowing one wheel to rotate faster in the turning radius as opposed to the other.
A spool replaces the inner differential in a drag race car (cause they only go straight) Replacing those small gears with on huge chunk of metal prevents breakage.
A sun gear
is a part of an automatic transmissions planetary gear set. Any car that uses an automatic clicks the car in drive and puts a preload on the rear end whick helps prevent the cluster gear from shattering when a load is applied. A manual transmission car with a clutch. (typically 3 finger) loads a relaxed driveline all at once in a race car and things break.Ha, I didn't have any idea what that line in your posts meant, I just wanted to talk shop with ya.
Happy pool playing !!!!!!