Ever seen those super slo-mo videos? The shaft gets out of the way instantly with lo-def shaft. That's how they work, shaft deflects, cueball doesn't. Well, it still squirts but less of it.
Deflection question, explain how a stiffer CF shaft has less deflection.
- Thread starter Shooter1
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dendweller
Well-known member
I suppose you could say the same for the ball. My guess is there is a finite amount of force when they hit, it gets divided, if the cue eats more because it's wippy the ball will take less and go off line less, But that's a guess and I'm not a phd.
Jumping in for no good reason. It occurs to me people may hit closer to center with a whippy shaft. Wouldn't this provide a longer contact window? Perhaps by millions of nano temporal increments.
No. Not what happens. Lo-d shafts are not 'whippy', its just the last 6-8" that has reduced mass thus lower deflect. WTF is a nano temporal increment? You have to go look this shit up?
NTI is teeny tiny bits of time. Jargon just requires a few seconds of aforethought thank you.No. Not what happens. Lo-d shafts are not 'whippy', its just the last 6-8" that has reduced mass thus lower deflect. WTF is a nano temporal increment? You have to go look this shit up?
however all said less weight up front means less deflection. that's a given.
but so called total deflection/(deviation) of the cue ball, is not 100 percent from the weight of the front of the shaft.
it is easily controlled by yourself by where your aim, and how you hit the cue ball and its speed. that comes with table time.
sure if you have to hit a shot with a certain speed and same amount of spin with a level in line cue no matter what,
then a lighter front cue will deflect less.
certainly many are helped by cf shafts. and some are not. but for me i think learning on traditional wood shafts first is best as you get more aspects of the control of the cue ball. then change over and see if you are better off for it or not.
if hitting lots of long shots hard with lots of english then a cf shaft has to help especially if you are not good at adjusting your aiming points accordingly.
but so called total deflection/(deviation) of the cue ball, is not 100 percent from the weight of the front of the shaft.
it is easily controlled by yourself by where your aim, and how you hit the cue ball and its speed. that comes with table time.
sure if you have to hit a shot with a certain speed and same amount of spin with a level in line cue no matter what,
then a lighter front cue will deflect less.
certainly many are helped by cf shafts. and some are not. but for me i think learning on traditional wood shafts first is best as you get more aspects of the control of the cue ball. then change over and see if you are better off for it or not.
if hitting lots of long shots hard with lots of english then a cf shaft has to help especially if you are not good at adjusting your aiming points accordingly.
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So I think there's a lot of confusion about the benefits of low deflection technology and in what ways it benefits you.
The most common misconception I think is that it becomes easier to adjust for side spin. Nope, not true. It's not easier. Learning how BHE and FHE works is the best way to compensate for squirt and it's just as easy with a high deflection shaft as a low deflection shaft.
The true benefit comes with the consistency because of the minimized squirt/CB deflection. Any time you're having to adjust less for something, the consistency will be higher.
Another misconception is that you don't have to adjust, you just aim like you're trying to make the ball. It can seem like this is the case but it's not. The natural pivot point is pushed back (in some cases, WAY back) but it's still there.
One thing you'll notice if you compare modern players to players from the past is where they bridge and where they hold the cue.
Traditionally it was taught to bridge 8-10 inches away from making cb contact. I REALLY think that this was because that is where a standard maple shaft's natural pivot point lies. I don't know that they were aware of it, but bridging at the shaft's natural pivot point allows for stroke flaws and deviations to really not affect making the shot as much (it does still affect the expected position though). That's one reason why many players can make shots but are always confused that the cb doesn't end up where they expect. It's due to stroke flaws that they aren't aware of or haven't addressed but since they bridge where they're supposed to, they still make the shot.
Modern players bridge 14-16 inches, typically, and wouldn't you know it, that's where the natural pivot point on modern ld tech tends to be, and they grip farther back on the butt which allows for the pushed back bridge while still maintaining close to 90 degrees of elbow bend at poc.
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very good post jaden.
it still is a personal thing.
as proof the old time players who knew little or cared about deflection just adjusted to the shots naturally for playing enough. and ran hundreds of balls comparable to the newest trend of cf shafts and knowledge of deflection the present players run about the same amount. and about the same amount of racks of nine ball and one pocket. within reason of course without picking out exceptions.
technology does help though. but those that rely on it too much usually lose out somewhere.
im old. never was a top player, or even really that good and didn't care about improving my speed. but can still beat in most action pool rooms all but the best maybe 3 or 4 that hang there with a 50 year old 13 mm heavy shaft.
it still is a personal thing.
as proof the old time players who knew little or cared about deflection just adjusted to the shots naturally for playing enough. and ran hundreds of balls comparable to the newest trend of cf shafts and knowledge of deflection the present players run about the same amount. and about the same amount of racks of nine ball and one pocket. within reason of course without picking out exceptions.
technology does help though. but those that rely on it too much usually lose out somewhere.
im old. never was a top player, or even really that good and didn't care about improving my speed. but can still beat in most action pool rooms all but the best maybe 3 or 4 that hang there with a 50 year old 13 mm heavy shaft.
standard wood isn't 'more predictable' . please. you think the best players ON EARTH would use ld shafts, of any kind, if they weren't 'predictable'?? btw, you can still curve around things when needed with a ld shaft.
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My understanding of deflection mirrors much of what has been said on this thread in that I have the believe (right or wrong) that as far as deflection is concerned, end mass is what matters.
I realize you asked about deflection, but I do think CF offers an additional benefit with its lack of flexibility--increased energy transfer when compared to wood. The first time I hit a ball with my Cue-tec Cynergy it felt like someone put fuel injection in the cue ball. I think this is why so many highly regarded jump cues are CF.
Anyway, I would respectfully submit that a LD CF shaft offers two benefits--lower deflection and increased energy transfer. I have hit with a Mezz-Ignite, a little with a REVO, and I own a Cynergy. In my estimation, the REVO had the lowest deflection and less noticeable increased energy transfer to the cue ball. The Cynergy, to me, has the most noticeable increased energy transfer and the highest amount of deflection between the three. The Mezz is in the middle, but more comparable to the REVO.
kollegedave
Good post. For those interested, I cover this stuff and more here:
I also summarize all the advantages and disadvantages of LD shafts here:
Correct; although, lateral shaft stiffness also has slight direct and indirect effects per the info and explanations here:
This video discusses other advantages of CF shafts:
The CF fiber shaft resource page has more info, including this list: