Delaminated Moori tips

plhlolelnlilx

F.I.S.H.
Silver Member
Both shafts are brand new with new Moori tips and between them I have less than a dozen balls hit. Super Awesome! =/
And yes, I had thought to try and salvage the tip on the left before realizing there was no way to get a dome on it.

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Are those Moori's or Moori Vs? Also, they look like they've been taken very far down for brand new tips.



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I believe they were Moori IV's and they should look a little short when more than half of the tip is laying somewhere at the bottom of one of the pockets in my case.

I haven't used anything Moori since they sold out and started doing large scale manufacturing. (at least compared to when they were hand made by one fellow). However, these tips were standard equipment for the new shafts so I figured, "what the hell?".

I think I'll be sticking with Everest and Kamui Black from now on.
 
Whoever put them on burninshed them too hard and got the tip hot. Each layer has a glue much like contact cement and when it gets hot the glue comes undone. Sometimes it happens when cutting them with a razor in the lathe that isnt sharp enough. This is why tiger says to wet before cutting to keep the heat down. Sorry for your loss :(
 
Whoever put them on burninshed them too hard and got the tip hot. Each layer has a glue much like contact cement and when it gets hot the glue comes undone. Sometimes it happens when cutting them with a razor in the lathe that isnt sharp enough. This is why tiger says to wet before cutting to keep the heat down. Sorry for your loss :(

Well I would tend to agree with you but lets just say the company in question installs more than their fair share of tips annually. It's either faulty manufacturing, poor cutting and finishing techniques or I'm just really unlucky.
 
Well I would tend to agree with you but lets just say the company in question installs more than their fair share of tips annually. It's either faulty manufacturing, poor cutting and finishing techniques or I'm just really unlucky.

The cutting and finishing is where it happens....dull razor or burninshing. I have put on a few myself (since 1994 I have been making cues and working on them) and the only times this has happened is when I had a dull razor or wanted the tip burnished just a little more. Just a heads up whenever you say just a little more....stop! Anyone that messes with soft ferrules knows what I am talking about they swell with just a hint of heat from cleaning a shaft in the lathe. Back when I was racing, everytime I was at practice and said just one more lap and I'm done, I would have a big medical bill. So I have learned over the years when I feel like it needs a little more I stop.
 
moori tips

Where did you buy them, Did they come off E bay ?

Moisture and /or heat will cause delamination.......

Because both tips have delamanted It would seem that what ever happened is common to both tips.

I do cue repairs, and if one of my customers had this problem I would replace both tips and worry about the rest of the moori tips that came in that batch of tips .........................................................
I have had to throw a box of tips away one time due to delamination.
They were not moori tips. When I called the company up that I bought them from they said moisture caused it.
It is possible over burnish the tip on a lathe causing it to get hot.
A person would have to make the tip temp to exceed 200 degrees F for delamination .
I agree with about statments made that a dull razor . or when burnishing the tip.
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Also China has been copying and producing fake moori tips.
I am not saying those tips are fake , just asking you if it is possible that they are.



MMike
 
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Years ago, I installed a Moori III for a friend. A couple of days later, he showed me the tip and it had basically disintegrated. After a few questions, I noticed the bottom of his case was soaking wet. I pulled his break cue out and it was soaked. Mystery solved. :eek:

The only problem I've had with Moori's was when I got a new shipment about 3-4 years ago. I couldn't get the darn things to bond. Then I saw a post on AZB about priming the tips. I now prime all of the tips I install and they bond perfectly.

And I agree that those two tips look like Moori V's... :cool:
 
The "Delam's"are all from china/Japan counterfeits!
Irish


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
The tips are factory equipment for a certain brand of cues so no they are not from China and no they were not purchased from e-Bay. Brand new shafts, brand new tips that were pre-installed on the shafts.
 
a few things

I haven't been putting on tips in quite awhile, I think my left overs are moori twos. However, even then I got a few with a rotten layer or one ruined in the tanning process. Tan wrong and you get leather that tears like rotten cardboard. Lots of pure crap leather comes out of china. I suspect some good stuff too but regardless of where the product is made if the leather came from china it is very suspect. The chinese happily meet almost any price point someone demands and cut whatever corners required to meet those prices. Cadmium in childs toys? The manufacturer(chinese) explained that the buyer wouldn't let them use lead and cadmium was the only way to meet the price requested.

OK, to recap, first issue is the leather or glue may be crap.

Second issue, trimming a tip is usually done as a scraping operation. Ninety degrees is the perfect scraping angle but often a slight negative rake is used to avoid catches and the disaster caused by "catches" if the blade is at a little too high of an angle. The thing is the more negative rake the more heat and the poorer cut. Since the blades almost everyone uses are beveled if they lay them on a flat surface to shape as is commonly done the cutting is done at a negative angle which produces heat as mentioned and quickly dulls blades. A cheat is to lay the blade on a typical high speed steel cutter which is often ground with about a nine degree rake. This largely offsets the bevel in the blade. Less heat, better quality tip finish, longer blade life. Win, win, win.

Blades are another issue. Heavy duty blades are duller than dirt when you get them, bad choice for this. Standard blades are a little better and I used to mark one each time I did a tip. I did three tips with a blade then it went to another blade holder for other purposes. Retractible blade razor knives are another issue if they are used. The blade usually has play in it which can lead to all kinds of grief. For everything but cutting boxes and such I only use fixed blade knives and if the blade isn't held tight I shim it tight.

One thing I have discovered. The coated blades and bi-metal blades are far better quality than standard blades and far sharper. I still only put on three to five tips with one but after trying the various specialty blades I found them all far better than plain blades.

Burnishing can indeed cause layered tips to delaminate. Also often you are playing with a glue saturated area in the middle of the tip and pure leather on the outside, a little more use and you are playing with pure leather in the middle and glue saturated leather on the outside. Back and forth, back and forth. With a single layer tip it is honest, it is either good or bad from the jump and you can play with it until it gets too low. There are ways to test and select single layer tips, why they are my choice for my cues. With layered tips even if you test top and bottom layers, what is in the middle?

I gathered all this information together awhile back and wrote an article, timing was bad and it was never published but I do remember all the info I assembled, figured I might as well rewrite the article here! :thumbup::thumbup:

Hu
 
I appreciate the detailed feedback and I can tell you that I did inspect the tips when the shafts arrived; the installation appeared to be perfect. My suspect would be heat caused by either the blade that was used or the final burnishing process.

As I mentioned to my dealer, I have used many different brands over the last twenty years and never had one delaminate like this much less two in under five minutes.
 
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