What's up Watchez???
DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
Seems as if it way past time to take your questions and innuendos private. Teacherman, Mike has asked you to contact him by PM or phone to discuss this matter and at this time that seems reasonable and appropriate. After that is done you both should keep the info private.
Watchez..................what's up?
Teacherman said:
Gotta respect a room owner that lets his bartender negotiate his business deals for him.
Teacherman said:
Can you actually use a phone?
It like to know what exactly "Teacherman" Dick does, while his bartender watchez. 
RAZOR ROG said:
Ya think! LOL LOL LOL I am amazed that this post has gone as far as it has.
Mike, have a good trip.
Teacherman, make lot's of money this weekend.
And to the rest, enjoy the weekend...It's Mothers Day!
Eydie
Blackjack said:
Apparently it matters to the sponsors who are donating product. They probably aren't willing or able to donate cash. I really don't know exactly what accounting practices make that difficult, but in the few cases I have been involved in it is often easier to give away $5000 worth of product than it is to cut a single check for $500. It's probably something to do with inventory and expenses and how it all looks on a balance sheet at the end of the quarter/year.
Not selling all of it implies that you will sell some of it. I guess it comes down to how much.
Maybe there are room owners who make more money off the added traffic and practice time that they don't feel it is enough to worry about. If you clear the added amount that way, and are left with product you can't sell add it to room tournaments or whatever.
It still seems to me that rather than being concerned with "am I making more money than I normally would" people are fixating on "who is making more than me, and how can I stop it".
Mungtor said:
Pure unadulterated bull shit.
I suggest you don't understand what it is to take risk and make that risk work for you. You have to analyze the odds on recovering your investment.
When you look at what we know (the prize fund payouts, the td's fee, the td's take of the prize fune, the td's take of the auction etc etc) and compare that to who put up the money for the event and what he can expect to get in return, then you can clearly see who is getting the shaft if the event fails. Which is one thing. However, even if the event succeeds the distribution is uneven.
#1: Look at the money side of the deal:
In this business deal, you can fully understand the td's desire to leave the system alone. He has no risk and is as close to a guaranteed gain as you can get. How much gain? Don't know until the event. May be big, may be small. But, gain for sure.
Compare this to the RO's position in this deal. Put up $1000 and the td's fee. Hope the td gets players there. Which by the way is not guaranteed. Anything less than 64 is automatic loser. And 64 may not do it. More like 80 is needed. Hope they spend money. (almost guaranteed they won't spend enough). And then, there is the product. Hope that it sells. Which is like hoping to win the lottery.
Which risk do you wish for?
#2: The labor side of the deal
TD has to send out flyers and run the tournament.
RO has to sell product. Which is extremely difficult to do. The people in the room already have the stuff you're selling. Your other customers don't want it. Most of it is junk. By that I mean very small market stuff. Few people interested in it. Tournament booby prize stuff.
Which job do you prefer?
BTW, this "having the td run the tournament is a big benefit" stuff is more bs. I can bartend and run a tournament at the same tiime. Do I like it. Not really. Can it be done? Absolutely, especially with this crowd...not a lot of bartending going on. And, when comparing his fee to my desire to not do both, I pick do both every time.
So, what does the td have that the RO is interested in if he wants to hold a tournament. Definately not any tournament running expertise. I can find 50 different people locally who are qualified to run the tournament board. If I paid them $100 they'd probably be thrilled. But, I can also do it myself for free.
What he may have is a following. Hopefully. A following that is likely to show up. But, no guarantees.
So, back to my financial post of 2 days ago, the room owners choice is........
Hold the tournament and lose $690. (my example with my expenses)
Or
Don't hold the tournament and gain $50.
Frankly, neither option is very appealing. But I have to go with option 2 until the risk is spread more evenly. When I can look at the facts before hand and say the odds are "I will make money", while acknowledging that the possibility of loss exists, then I can say go. But, you have to feel "going in" that it will work. When the facts suggest something else, you can't do it.
The RO has a need. Sat and Sun day business definately needs improving. It's unfortunate that the td will not do a better job of understanding that and make the offer more appealing. When the enterprising td makes it win win win, he will capture the market and have RO's calling him.
Unforturnately that is not the goal of the td. You can find a need and fill it..........or you can exploit a need. Two different things.
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BTW, this "having the td run the tournament is a big benefit" stuff is more bs. I can bartend and run a tournament at the same tiime. Do I like it. Not really. Can it be done? Absolutely, especially with this crowd...not a lot of bartending going on. And, when comparing his fee to my desire to not do both, I pick do both every time. (Teachermans comment)
Since you said you have NEVER had anyone else do a tournament for you and the ones you have done yourself FAILED MISERABLY....you have NO intelligent input regarding BOTH sides of the coin.
I like your views though, people need to hear the good and the bad then they can make their own decision. What works for one is definately not going to work for all.
Since you said you have NEVER had anyone else do a tournament for you and the ones you have done yourself FAILED MISERABLY....you have NO intelligent input regarding BOTH sides of the coin.
I like your views though, people need to hear the good and the bad then they can make their own decision. What works for one is definately not going to work for all.
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stevelomako said:
With all due respect Mr Lomako the failure of Teachers Amateur Tour had nothing to do with how I advanced names on a tournament board. My marker never ran out of ink. And I always placed them in the right spot.
Teacherman said:
Of course!!!
It had nothing to do with you at all.
It was those evil pool players.
And you would have gotten away with it too
If it weren't for those meddling kids.
Sorry, old Scooby Doo flashback.
Teacherman said:
I understand that but it does suck when you try and you don't get response. What I said was nothing personal, it's happened to me also.
I do know that with more tours starting there will be more competition between the operators of them, which will only end up benefitting the room owners.
Watchez..........What's the news?............Tell me or you're fired.
Teacherman said:
I understand that part. It's not too hard. I also concede that you know your risk better than anybody on the outside.
(empahsis mine)
I completely understand the RO's risk if the event fails. It is all his. I got that. Perfectly true for the general case.
OK, this is where I see the argument changing again. If you are making more than you normally would, why does it matter how much? I know nobody wants to get screwed on any deal, but if the place would be empty and making $0 vs full and only making $500 is there really that much more work for you to make it not worth it? That's an honest question.
EDIT: Sorry, I missed the part about the -$690 vs +$50 at first. Where does it become worth it?
You're making good points, but I guess I'm thinking about this particular situation too much. I'm seeing it that Mike offered you guarenteed profit to try it, and you jumped on him with both feet. I don't know either one of you at all, but it seemed to me that Mike was willing to go out on a limb to get you to try it. Your exposure on this event was effectively nothing with Mike's guarentee (and let's not debate whether you believe in it, please).
Anyway, you know your business better than me so I'm gonna let it go. As a player (but not a pro, and not even very good) I have no trouble paying an entry fee, having a couple of beers, and even if I'm knocked out I'll hang around, watch, and probably have another beer. I must be one in a million or something, but then I'm not trying to make my living from my game either.
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Hey that is not fair. Okay, someone quick call Mike Janis on his 800# and tell him to check his PM. If I don't get a response from him by the time I get off work at my day job @5PM central I will be forced to give out my HOTLINE news without consulting with him first, and this news might be considered damaging. I certainly can't afford to lose my weekend job! The clock is ticking.Teacherman said:Watchez..........What's the news?............Tell me or you're fired.
Mungtor said:
First, I asked Mike to write me a check before the event like he's asking all RO's to do, in an effort for him to understand the gamble. He won't. Yet, expects us to. Whenever I offer someone the same deal (similar in this case) that he is offering me and he won't take it, you get an automatic no thanks from me. NOTHING helps one analyze risk like this question. I don't care who you're talking to or what subject you're talking about. The answer to this question is all you need to know.
Second, writing me a check for $500 and allowing me to do business with the people who show up, which is what I offered, is much different than him guaranteeing me a $500 profit. And, in my opinion, would put me in a similar income category as him for the event.
BTW, do you have these guys that drive around in their cars and sell pictures out of their trunk? You ought to see how they get treated when they enter Teachers. And/or do you have players who think they are in the cue business, who go around the pool room and try to sell sticks and cases to customers. That's my favorite one. The people of AZ would think they've been treated like royalty if they'd see my act when that happens. Mr. Janis is not a whole lot different. Differences, yes. Not significant though.
Third, as far as a successful event is concerned and the amount I make compared to his. It has everything to do with the risk, who's taking it, and how much and comparing it to who's making the money and how much. No, I don't like taking all the risk and making less than someone with no risk. Not part of my business judgement.
Fourth, all the above and more are examples of exploiting the need rather than filling it.
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drivermaker
Banned
watchez said:
Man...this is like the clock ticking on the TV series "24". The plot thickens...
reputations are on the line...lives are at stake....will the Viking Tour continue...is Teacher missing the boat...who's getting the green weenie....who's giving the green weenie...
I CAN'T TAKE THE SUSPENSE....I GOT'S TO KNOW...I GOT'S TO KNOW....I'LL PAY YOU ANYTHING YOU WANT....PM ME, EMAIL ME...JUST MAKE SURE YOU SEND A COUPLE GROSS OF CHALK AND SOME HOUSE CUES THAT I CAN SELL!!