DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
No wonder u no longer own one
When you owned your rooms did you know what your return would be? Thats what investment is about. You hope for the best and if you are smart you will be a winner.
Did u really read or is your comprehension like TM.
Yeh, it costs me 1200 but can you read, it is 1200 I would
never have had if not for a tournament coming up. And where do you want me to get the added? Out of beer sales , cue sales. I am allowed to enter pool time into my books and take draws for whatever I need. Where did you go to school? I don't raise the money from table time, it just works out that way. I make more money and I choose to use that extra money to add to a tournament. I end up making plenty of money on a regional tournament. Why can't you get that through your head.
Answer the question about investing in extra sticks for christmas and you sell half of them. Does not mean you are going to lose in the long run on your investment. It takes money to make money. And $1000 added to a tournament is chump change compared to the advertising and good reputation you get that comes from it. Anyone who argues that never made a dime in their life.
Sorry but its really upsetting noone listens to somone who has been doing this steadily and successfully for 30 years.
Blackjack said:
When you owned your rooms did you know what your return would be? Thats what investment is about. You hope for the best and if you are smart you will be a winner.
Did u really read or is your comprehension like TM.
Yeh, it costs me 1200 but can you read, it is 1200 I would
never have had if not for a tournament coming up. And where do you want me to get the added? Out of beer sales , cue sales. I am allowed to enter pool time into my books and take draws for whatever I need. Where did you go to school? I don't raise the money from table time, it just works out that way. I make more money and I choose to use that extra money to add to a tournament. I end up making plenty of money on a regional tournament. Why can't you get that through your head.
Answer the question about investing in extra sticks for christmas and you sell half of them. Does not mean you are going to lose in the long run on your investment. It takes money to make money. And $1000 added to a tournament is chump change compared to the advertising and good reputation you get that comes from it. Anyone who argues that never made a dime in their life.
Sorry but its really upsetting noone listens to somone who has been doing this steadily and successfully for 30 years.
Barbara said:
Sorry Barbara, I had to go back to wht the actual payout shhet has on it. We make these for every event.
I listed 5/6 place incorrectly. They should state $100 each not the $125.
The auction states that $920 was paid out after the 10% organization fee was taken out.
With what my payouts in my computer list and the payouts on AZ list is one thing. The actual event form is correct. I had to find this after you brough it to my attention. It sates:
Tournament Pay by place ( 12 places paid )
600
400
300
200
100
100
75
75
50
50
50
50
total $2050
Auction Pay by place (4 places paid )
450
250
150
70
total $920.
The total pay out for the event was $2,970.
Humbly yours,
Mj
Last edited:
Re-Posted with corrections. Geez I suck at typing and adding.
Taken from Viking Tour Promo Packet.
Page 1
I would like to introduce to you, the Bigger & Better Than Ever - Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour. This tour began as an Ohio based tour in 1994 and has steadily grown over the years. The tour is now in its eleventh year and rapidly expanding. The tour is open to all players and skill levels. This season the tour consists of 61 tour events (tournaments), this includes up to four $5,000 added Regional Championships (1 per region) and one $25,000 National Grand Championship at the end of these events.
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour, the largest tour in the country, offers low entry fees of only $37 into the tour events and a low $20 tour card fee per tour year. Also, to encourage participation by women and junior players, the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour offers them a free entry fee at all non-championship tour events.
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour invites your billiard room to become a host location for one of the tour events. The fee for hosting a tour event will vary from region to region but is always a profit to your room. The tour sponsors make this possible by giving free retail product and product discounts. This product is yours to sell, keep or use to offset the cost of the event.
Two levels of events available!
$1,000 added or $2,000 added event.
The Tour will provide all advertising, player/room mailing lists and the tournament director.
All you have to do is call today for more information.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Respectfully,
Mike Janis
President - Mike Janis Productions, The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour.
800-200-7665
Page 2
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour will be continueing through the new millennium with a more comprehensive format than any other tour in the country. We are offering the players, billiard room owners, and sponsors what we feel is the BEST package in the country. For the players, we offer three separate competitive levels of tournament play. For our sponsors, we offer what we believe is the best promotion for their product that they can get from any tour in the country. For the billiard room owners, we offer the best products and advertising support they can get from any tour. For every tour event we provide all of the advertising, which includes postcards to the players, flyers to all pool rooms in your region and a listing of your tour event in most pool related magazines and on the internet. And did I mention 200+% sponsorship!
No other tour offers you as much as the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour.
With the above in mind, I am asking you for your support of the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour for the upcoming season. I know there may be other tours asking you to host a tour event, but do they offer you as much as the Viking Tour does?
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour caters to the beginning and intermediate players, not the top-notch players. These types of players are the people that play in tournaments for fun and amusement, not for a living. These types of players are the main group that are most likely to support your establishment by returning time and again for social entertainment. And not to mention we still get some of the best players competing in our tournaments. Players like; Earl Strickland, Allison Fisher, Corey Deuel, Buddy Hall, Tommy Kennedy, Grady Mathews, Nick Varner, Howard Vickery, Johny Archer, and many more. Plus an unbelievable amount of local favorites.
If you are hosting any other tours, you may want to consider if they offer you as much sponsorship and support for your money as the Viking Tour does? Do they offer to the players as many programs as we do? (see below)
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour will concentrate the tour events into 3 regions.
Region #1 - Ohio Area - OH, PA, NY, KY, WV, MD, IN, MI
19 events + 1 Regional Championship
Region #2 - North East Central Area - WI, MN, IL, IN, MI, IA, NE 18 events + 1 Regional Championship
Region #4 - South East Area - KY, VA, TN, NC, SC, GA, AL, MS, FL
19 events + 2 Regional Championship
The entry fee for each tour event is a modestly priced at $37, which means that most players will put their money up to play (Woman and Junior players receive FREE entry fees to encourage participation). Our tour card fee is only $20 for the tour season (Apr. 2005 thru Nov. 2006 ). Also, each region will have their own $5,000 added Regional Tour Championship, and players from your area are allowed to compete in all of them. Plus at the completion of the four $5,000 added Regional Championships we will have a $25,000 National Grand Championship, and every player that competes in any one of the local $1,000, or $2,000 added tour events can play.
I look forward to talking with you soon.
Respectfully,
Mike Janis
800-200-7665
Pages 3 and 4 desctibe the proiducts that you get along with their retail values. Most of this is propriatary but I can share these #rs with you.
When a location holds a $1,000 added event they get $3,661 in retail product (cue sticks, cloth, balls, cases etc..) and an additional $1195 in discounts and advertising values if they choose to purchase addditional products. For a grand total of $4,856 in actual products and discounts.
When a location holds a $2,000 added event they get $7,237 in retail product (cue sticks, cloth, balls, cases etc..) and an additional $1,555 in discounts and advertising values if they choose to purchase addditional products. For a grand total of $8,792 in actual products and discounts.
The room owners that sell products in their locations tell me that this is the best deal they have ever seen from any of the regional tours. I'm inclined to believe them.
As far as events and payouts go it's real simple just as it states on our flyers.
The total entry fee is $37. $2 goes to the NUTS fee and $10 goes to table time and registration fees. That means that exactly $25 from each player goes into the prize fund. Using the Murphy's event as an example that was previously mentioned it broke down to this.
46 players in the event with 4 of them being free entry fees to the Women and JR players. That means $25 X 42 went into the prize fund along with the $1,000 added. This made the total prize fund of $2,050 for the event. 42 X $25 = $1,050 + $1,000 added = $2,050. The player auction brought in a total of $920 after the 10% organization fee.
The complete payouts were as follows as taken from the actual payout form from the event.
1st Place was Bruce Berrong $600T + $450A
2 Jim Jennings $400T + $250A I'll skip the names to save time.
3 $300T + $150A
4 $200T + $70A
5/6 $100 ea = $200
7/8 $75 ea = $150
9-12 $50 ea = $200
This was a total pay out of $2,970.
I also noticed that the AZ page lists the payouts incorrectly.
Mike listed them as:
Complete Payouts:
1st Bruce Berrong $1050
2nd Jim Jennings $650
3rd Billy Tyler $450
4th BJ Ussery $275
5th/6th Steve Cox, Johnny Carson $100
7th/8th Ron Park, Brian White $75
9th/12th Chris Bishop, Kevin Wishall, Chuji Angles, Mike Janis $50
Shit happens, Mike's a busy guy and typing errors happen. Also, I give Mike my results many times when I am driving back from the events over the phone and sometimes I give them to him on the phone while I'm at the events when I'm trying to run the event or watching the finals. It's only off by $5.
Added/edited info - I'll also add that we Guarantee the $25,000 prize fund for our players at the end of the year so if your gonna complain about tourd card money or anything else. That's where it goes.
Also added/edited - I'm including how we advretise the events. These posts can be found here on AZ in the "Tournament Announcement" section. http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulleti...ead.php?t=12615
Below is the Viking Tour Schedule and a list of our newest sponsors.
Note: All Non Professional Women and all JR Players (JR=age 17 & Under) receive free entry fees to all the below events. However, all players must buy the Viking Tour Card and pay the $2 New Unified Tour System (N.U.T.S.) Fee.
All players must have a Viking Cue Open 9-Ball Tour Card for the 05/06 season to compete in our events at a cost of ony $20.
----------------------------------------------------------------
May 7-8 at 1pm - $1,000 Added
Palace Billiards
160 W. Roosevelt Road
Villa Park, Illinois
630-941-3500
The event is race to 7, Double Elimination,
Winner Breaks, World Standardized Rules
Entry Fee is a total of $37 + Viking Cue Open 9-Ball Tour Card
Entry Fee Breakdown = $25 to Tourney Prize Fund,
$10 Table Time / Registration Fee and $2 N.U.T.S. Fee
$10 Minimum Player Auction Bid (optional by player)
This event is played on 9' tables
The TD for the event is Renee Edmiston
Also, here is the list our sponsors that give you all the product.
The 2005/06 sponsors for the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour are:
Viking Cues - ( http://www.vikingcue.com )
Championship Cloth - ( http://www.champbilliards.com )
Brunswick Billiards - ( http://www.brunswickbilliards.com )
Aramith Balls - (http://www.aramith.com )
Mueller Recreational Products - ( http://www.muellers.com )
Joe Porper's Creative Inventions - ( http://www.porper.com )
Stinger Jump/Break Cue - ( http://www.jumpbreak.com )
Tiger Products - ( http://www.tigerproducts.com)
Platinum Billiards - ( http://www.platinumbilliards.com )
Sir Joseph Cue Gloves - ( http://www.sirjoseph.com )
The Frog and TadPole Jump Cues - ( http://www.robindodson.com )
Pool Cube - ( http://www.poolcube.com )
Billiards Press - ( http://www.billiardspress.com )
Pool Player Billiard Accessories - ( http://www.cuecare.com )
AcCueShot - ( http://www.AcCueShot.com )
The Spider - ( http://www.thespideronline.com )
Hustlin USA Clothing Company - ( http://www.hustlinusa.com )
Quick-Clean Pool Table Cleaner - ( http://www.quick-clean.com )
The Billiard Guide Book - ( http://www.phoenixbilliards.com )
Jimmy Reid's Free Pool Lessons Dot Com - ( http://www.freepoollessons.com )
IVOR-X Ferrules - ( http://www.ivor-x.com )
Five Star Billiards - ( http://www.5starbilliards.com )
BCA Pool League - ( http://www.playbca.com )
Bunjee Billiards ( http://www.bunjeebilliards.com )
Tiger X Shaft - ( http://www.tigerproducts.com)
Sledgehammer Break/Jump Cue - ( http://www.babysproshop.com )
The Monk Billiard Academy - ( http://www.themonk.com )
Pool & Billiard Magazine - ( http://www.poolmag.com )
Billiards Digest Magazine - (http://www.billiardsdigest.com )
Professor Q Ball Magazine - ( http://www.professorqball.com )
AZBilliards - ( http://www.azbilliards.com )
Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF - ( http://www.redroof.com )
PCC Products
Willard's Cue Tip Shapers
Inside Pool Magazine
Silver Cup Chalk
There doesn't seem to be anything missing in there to me.
Can I help you with anything else ?
Mj
Taken from Viking Tour Promo Packet.
Page 1
I would like to introduce to you, the Bigger & Better Than Ever - Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour. This tour began as an Ohio based tour in 1994 and has steadily grown over the years. The tour is now in its eleventh year and rapidly expanding. The tour is open to all players and skill levels. This season the tour consists of 61 tour events (tournaments), this includes up to four $5,000 added Regional Championships (1 per region) and one $25,000 National Grand Championship at the end of these events.
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour, the largest tour in the country, offers low entry fees of only $37 into the tour events and a low $20 tour card fee per tour year. Also, to encourage participation by women and junior players, the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour offers them a free entry fee at all non-championship tour events.
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour invites your billiard room to become a host location for one of the tour events. The fee for hosting a tour event will vary from region to region but is always a profit to your room. The tour sponsors make this possible by giving free retail product and product discounts. This product is yours to sell, keep or use to offset the cost of the event.
Two levels of events available!
$1,000 added or $2,000 added event.
The Tour will provide all advertising, player/room mailing lists and the tournament director.
All you have to do is call today for more information.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Respectfully,
Mike Janis
President - Mike Janis Productions, The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour.
800-200-7665
Page 2
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour will be continueing through the new millennium with a more comprehensive format than any other tour in the country. We are offering the players, billiard room owners, and sponsors what we feel is the BEST package in the country. For the players, we offer three separate competitive levels of tournament play. For our sponsors, we offer what we believe is the best promotion for their product that they can get from any tour in the country. For the billiard room owners, we offer the best products and advertising support they can get from any tour. For every tour event we provide all of the advertising, which includes postcards to the players, flyers to all pool rooms in your region and a listing of your tour event in most pool related magazines and on the internet. And did I mention 200+% sponsorship!
No other tour offers you as much as the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour.
With the above in mind, I am asking you for your support of the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour for the upcoming season. I know there may be other tours asking you to host a tour event, but do they offer you as much as the Viking Tour does?
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour caters to the beginning and intermediate players, not the top-notch players. These types of players are the people that play in tournaments for fun and amusement, not for a living. These types of players are the main group that are most likely to support your establishment by returning time and again for social entertainment. And not to mention we still get some of the best players competing in our tournaments. Players like; Earl Strickland, Allison Fisher, Corey Deuel, Buddy Hall, Tommy Kennedy, Grady Mathews, Nick Varner, Howard Vickery, Johny Archer, and many more. Plus an unbelievable amount of local favorites.
If you are hosting any other tours, you may want to consider if they offer you as much sponsorship and support for your money as the Viking Tour does? Do they offer to the players as many programs as we do? (see below)
The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour will concentrate the tour events into 3 regions.
Region #1 - Ohio Area - OH, PA, NY, KY, WV, MD, IN, MI
19 events + 1 Regional Championship
Region #2 - North East Central Area - WI, MN, IL, IN, MI, IA, NE 18 events + 1 Regional Championship
Region #4 - South East Area - KY, VA, TN, NC, SC, GA, AL, MS, FL
19 events + 2 Regional Championship
The entry fee for each tour event is a modestly priced at $37, which means that most players will put their money up to play (Woman and Junior players receive FREE entry fees to encourage participation). Our tour card fee is only $20 for the tour season (Apr. 2005 thru Nov. 2006 ). Also, each region will have their own $5,000 added Regional Tour Championship, and players from your area are allowed to compete in all of them. Plus at the completion of the four $5,000 added Regional Championships we will have a $25,000 National Grand Championship, and every player that competes in any one of the local $1,000, or $2,000 added tour events can play.
I look forward to talking with you soon.
Respectfully,
Mike Janis
800-200-7665
Pages 3 and 4 desctibe the proiducts that you get along with their retail values. Most of this is propriatary but I can share these #rs with you.
When a location holds a $1,000 added event they get $3,661 in retail product (cue sticks, cloth, balls, cases etc..) and an additional $1195 in discounts and advertising values if they choose to purchase addditional products. For a grand total of $4,856 in actual products and discounts.
When a location holds a $2,000 added event they get $7,237 in retail product (cue sticks, cloth, balls, cases etc..) and an additional $1,555 in discounts and advertising values if they choose to purchase addditional products. For a grand total of $8,792 in actual products and discounts.
The room owners that sell products in their locations tell me that this is the best deal they have ever seen from any of the regional tours. I'm inclined to believe them.
As far as events and payouts go it's real simple just as it states on our flyers.
The total entry fee is $37. $2 goes to the NUTS fee and $10 goes to table time and registration fees. That means that exactly $25 from each player goes into the prize fund. Using the Murphy's event as an example that was previously mentioned it broke down to this.
46 players in the event with 4 of them being free entry fees to the Women and JR players. That means $25 X 42 went into the prize fund along with the $1,000 added. This made the total prize fund of $2,050 for the event. 42 X $25 = $1,050 + $1,000 added = $2,050. The player auction brought in a total of $920 after the 10% organization fee.
The complete payouts were as follows as taken from the actual payout form from the event.
1st Place was Bruce Berrong $600T + $450A
2 Jim Jennings $400T + $250A I'll skip the names to save time.
3 $300T + $150A
4 $200T + $70A
5/6 $100 ea = $200
7/8 $75 ea = $150
9-12 $50 ea = $200
This was a total pay out of $2,970.
I also noticed that the AZ page lists the payouts incorrectly.
Mike listed them as:
Complete Payouts:
1st Bruce Berrong $1050
2nd Jim Jennings $650
3rd Billy Tyler $450
4th BJ Ussery $275
5th/6th Steve Cox, Johnny Carson $100
7th/8th Ron Park, Brian White $75
9th/12th Chris Bishop, Kevin Wishall, Chuji Angles, Mike Janis $50
Shit happens, Mike's a busy guy and typing errors happen. Also, I give Mike my results many times when I am driving back from the events over the phone and sometimes I give them to him on the phone while I'm at the events when I'm trying to run the event or watching the finals. It's only off by $5.
Added/edited info - I'll also add that we Guarantee the $25,000 prize fund for our players at the end of the year so if your gonna complain about tourd card money or anything else. That's where it goes.
Also added/edited - I'm including how we advretise the events. These posts can be found here on AZ in the "Tournament Announcement" section. http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulleti...ead.php?t=12615
Below is the Viking Tour Schedule and a list of our newest sponsors.
Note: All Non Professional Women and all JR Players (JR=age 17 & Under) receive free entry fees to all the below events. However, all players must buy the Viking Tour Card and pay the $2 New Unified Tour System (N.U.T.S.) Fee.
All players must have a Viking Cue Open 9-Ball Tour Card for the 05/06 season to compete in our events at a cost of ony $20.
----------------------------------------------------------------
May 7-8 at 1pm - $1,000 Added
Palace Billiards
160 W. Roosevelt Road
Villa Park, Illinois
630-941-3500
The event is race to 7, Double Elimination,
Winner Breaks, World Standardized Rules
Entry Fee is a total of $37 + Viking Cue Open 9-Ball Tour Card
Entry Fee Breakdown = $25 to Tourney Prize Fund,
$10 Table Time / Registration Fee and $2 N.U.T.S. Fee
$10 Minimum Player Auction Bid (optional by player)
This event is played on 9' tables
The TD for the event is Renee Edmiston
Also, here is the list our sponsors that give you all the product.
The 2005/06 sponsors for the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour are:
Viking Cues - ( http://www.vikingcue.com )
Championship Cloth - ( http://www.champbilliards.com )
Brunswick Billiards - ( http://www.brunswickbilliards.com )
Aramith Balls - (http://www.aramith.com )
Mueller Recreational Products - ( http://www.muellers.com )
Joe Porper's Creative Inventions - ( http://www.porper.com )
Stinger Jump/Break Cue - ( http://www.jumpbreak.com )
Tiger Products - ( http://www.tigerproducts.com)
Platinum Billiards - ( http://www.platinumbilliards.com )
Sir Joseph Cue Gloves - ( http://www.sirjoseph.com )
The Frog and TadPole Jump Cues - ( http://www.robindodson.com )
Pool Cube - ( http://www.poolcube.com )
Billiards Press - ( http://www.billiardspress.com )
Pool Player Billiard Accessories - ( http://www.cuecare.com )
AcCueShot - ( http://www.AcCueShot.com )
The Spider - ( http://www.thespideronline.com )
Hustlin USA Clothing Company - ( http://www.hustlinusa.com )
Quick-Clean Pool Table Cleaner - ( http://www.quick-clean.com )
The Billiard Guide Book - ( http://www.phoenixbilliards.com )
Jimmy Reid's Free Pool Lessons Dot Com - ( http://www.freepoollessons.com )
IVOR-X Ferrules - ( http://www.ivor-x.com )
Five Star Billiards - ( http://www.5starbilliards.com )
BCA Pool League - ( http://www.playbca.com )
Bunjee Billiards ( http://www.bunjeebilliards.com )
Tiger X Shaft - ( http://www.tigerproducts.com)
Sledgehammer Break/Jump Cue - ( http://www.babysproshop.com )
The Monk Billiard Academy - ( http://www.themonk.com )
Pool & Billiard Magazine - ( http://www.poolmag.com )
Billiards Digest Magazine - (http://www.billiardsdigest.com )
Professor Q Ball Magazine - ( http://www.professorqball.com )
AZBilliards - ( http://www.azbilliards.com )
Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF - ( http://www.redroof.com )
PCC Products
Willard's Cue Tip Shapers
Inside Pool Magazine
Silver Cup Chalk
There doesn't seem to be anything missing in there to me.
Can I help you with anything else ?
Mj
nfty9er said:
I understand completely where you are coming from.......and don't forget the fact that you don't have to do ANYTHING running the tournament.
Its really nice to have someone else do the tournament work and you can just hang around the room for a change like the rest of the riff-raff.
I have my little weekly tournaments for the regulars and different monthly events, then I try to do something bigger every other month:
Oct. 2004-Cornbread Red Memorial One-Pocket
Dec. 2004-Jacoby Cues Great Lakes Womens 9-Ball Tour
Feb. 2005-Viking 9-Ball Tour
April 2005-Fury Midwest 9-ball Tour
I had alot of fun with each event.........but the one that did the best and where I made out the most was.................................(insert guess here).
Pssst...starts with V
MikeJanis said:
Mike,
I understand, I make the same formatted sheets for each of my events, too. I can reconstruct a 100% accounting of any event I conduct to anybody that asks.
So you are 100% paid out for this event.
I can only collect memberships. How do you cover your expenses? THIS is what I need to do better.
Barbara
Last edited:
When you owned your rooms did you know what your return would be? Thats what investment is about. You hope for the best and if you are smart you will be a winner.
I didn't hope for anything. I accounted for every dime coming in and every dime going out.
Did u really read or is your comprehension like TM.
I read it and I laughed. Someone said they made $1200 invested it and said it cost them nothing. It cost $1200, especially when you leave out the part of the actual return. Now if you said I put in $1200 and made back my original investment, then you broke even. You did not mention your return.
Yeh, it costs me $1200 but can you read, it is $1200 I would
never have had if not for a tournament coming up. And where do you want me to get the added? Out of beer sales , cue sales. I am allowed to enter pool time into my books and take draws for whatever I need.
I completely understand that. My point is, I'm not going to calculate it that way, and neither would anyone else. You know that. Chances are you already had the $1200 on hand. I would have. Point is, the explanation you gave is how you could justify the amount of the added ($1200) on what you are bringing in from those customers.
Where did you go to school?
University of Texas at El Paso. I have also been involved in many other facets of this conversation. It's been 18 pages and the question still has not been answered. With as many tournaments that Viking Tour puts on, there should be some data that can be passed along to a prospective room owner.
I don't raise the money from table time, it just works out that way. I make more money and I choose to use that extra money to add to a tournament. I end up making plenty of money on a regional tournament. Why can't you get that through your head.
Because you failed to provide the numbers on the return of your investment.
Answer the question about investing in extra sticks for christmas and you sell half of them. Does not mean you are going to lose in the long run on your investment. It takes money to make money. And $1000 added to a tournament is chump change compared to the advertising and good reputation you get that comes from it. Anyone who argues that never made a dime in their life.
Nobody is arguing that, just asking what the projected return would be, and what the TD's cut is. I'd ask the same question.
Sorry but its really upsetting noone listens to somone who has been doing this steadily and successfully for 30 years.
And it's also upsetting when you can go round and round for 18 pages in two threads (one thread deleted) and have the same question skipped around and avoided. It might be politically correct to agree with everything that Mike Janis says, but not all of us are like that. I've spoken to Mike Janis privately and he knows where I am coming from in regards to organizing a tour system that works for everybody. When it works for everybody, then means everybody gets their fair share of the pie. If they are that confident that the prodcuts will sell ... then Blackjack's response would be this:
"Okay, what if I opt for a cash instead of product? If its going to sell anyway, why don't you sell it?"
Herein lies the mystery and I have waited for someone to point this out. We're getting an amount of retail merchandise, not wholesale. Is this a write off for the company providing it? Who knows? Who cares? As a room owner I won't sell all of it and I know that and so do you. So if I know that going in, why do I want it? Talk to vendors. They aren't making money at some of the larger tournaments. Talk to the sponsors. Talk to the TD's that are worried about losing money in events that havent happned yet. Talk to the players that can't afford to get a hotel room. There's a problem.
Lastly... talk to people like myself that are trying to change things. I can tell you what its like to talk to people that don't care, don't listen, and don't return your calls. I can tell you what its like to talk to people that care only about how it effects THEM in the longrun and could care less about the game as a whole. In the span of time I have been involved in pool I have watched several professional tours fail - and many other regional tours fold. Mostly for all the same reasons. So it is frustrating when problems that have folded other tours in the past keep resurfacing in the tours of the present. When anybody says something about it - we're labeled troublemakers or we don't know what we are talking about. Don Mackey looked me right in the face and laughed in 1994 when I told him if he kept up his current practices that the MPBT would fail to exist. Where is he now? Nowhere to be found. What happened to the tour? I was wrong then as well. I'll continue to ask questions as long as I have them - and its no crime to expect answers either.
I didn't hope for anything. I accounted for every dime coming in and every dime going out.
Did u really read or is your comprehension like TM.
I read it and I laughed. Someone said they made $1200 invested it and said it cost them nothing. It cost $1200, especially when you leave out the part of the actual return. Now if you said I put in $1200 and made back my original investment, then you broke even. You did not mention your return.
Yeh, it costs me $1200 but can you read, it is $1200 I would
never have had if not for a tournament coming up. And where do you want me to get the added? Out of beer sales , cue sales. I am allowed to enter pool time into my books and take draws for whatever I need.
I completely understand that. My point is, I'm not going to calculate it that way, and neither would anyone else. You know that. Chances are you already had the $1200 on hand. I would have. Point is, the explanation you gave is how you could justify the amount of the added ($1200) on what you are bringing in from those customers.
Where did you go to school?
University of Texas at El Paso. I have also been involved in many other facets of this conversation. It's been 18 pages and the question still has not been answered. With as many tournaments that Viking Tour puts on, there should be some data that can be passed along to a prospective room owner.
I don't raise the money from table time, it just works out that way. I make more money and I choose to use that extra money to add to a tournament. I end up making plenty of money on a regional tournament. Why can't you get that through your head.
Because you failed to provide the numbers on the return of your investment.
Answer the question about investing in extra sticks for christmas and you sell half of them. Does not mean you are going to lose in the long run on your investment. It takes money to make money. And $1000 added to a tournament is chump change compared to the advertising and good reputation you get that comes from it. Anyone who argues that never made a dime in their life.
Nobody is arguing that, just asking what the projected return would be, and what the TD's cut is. I'd ask the same question.
Sorry but its really upsetting noone listens to somone who has been doing this steadily and successfully for 30 years.
And it's also upsetting when you can go round and round for 18 pages in two threads (one thread deleted) and have the same question skipped around and avoided. It might be politically correct to agree with everything that Mike Janis says, but not all of us are like that. I've spoken to Mike Janis privately and he knows where I am coming from in regards to organizing a tour system that works for everybody. When it works for everybody, then means everybody gets their fair share of the pie. If they are that confident that the prodcuts will sell ... then Blackjack's response would be this:
"Okay, what if I opt for a cash instead of product? If its going to sell anyway, why don't you sell it?"
Herein lies the mystery and I have waited for someone to point this out. We're getting an amount of retail merchandise, not wholesale. Is this a write off for the company providing it? Who knows? Who cares? As a room owner I won't sell all of it and I know that and so do you. So if I know that going in, why do I want it? Talk to vendors. They aren't making money at some of the larger tournaments. Talk to the sponsors. Talk to the TD's that are worried about losing money in events that havent happned yet. Talk to the players that can't afford to get a hotel room. There's a problem.
Lastly... talk to people like myself that are trying to change things. I can tell you what its like to talk to people that don't care, don't listen, and don't return your calls. I can tell you what its like to talk to people that care only about how it effects THEM in the longrun and could care less about the game as a whole. In the span of time I have been involved in pool I have watched several professional tours fail - and many other regional tours fold. Mostly for all the same reasons. So it is frustrating when problems that have folded other tours in the past keep resurfacing in the tours of the present. When anybody says something about it - we're labeled troublemakers or we don't know what we are talking about. Don Mackey looked me right in the face and laughed in 1994 when I told him if he kept up his current practices that the MPBT would fail to exist. Where is he now? Nowhere to be found. What happened to the tour? I was wrong then as well. I'll continue to ask questions as long as I have them - and its no crime to expect answers either.
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Hey everyone. It seems that tensions between many posters have been rising. Please relax, enjoy the good and bad conversations and take it easy.
I suggest everyone should walk away from their computers, go play some pool and have fun.
Happy Mothers Day to all the Mom's out there !
Barbara, I will be driving for the next 11 hours or so. If you want to call me to talk about your tour please do. It would be a nice treat while I'm driving all alone.
TM, I enjoyed the word war but please hold off until I get back. We can continue it then.
I'm out like a fat kid play'n dodge ball.
Mj
I suggest everyone should walk away from their computers, go play some pool and have fun.
Happy Mothers Day to all the Mom's out there !
Barbara, I will be driving for the next 11 hours or so. If you want to call me to talk about your tour please do. It would be a nice treat while I'm driving all alone.
TM, I enjoyed the word war but please hold off until I get back. We can continue it then.
I'm out like a fat kid play'n dodge ball.
Mj
Am I missing something? It seems Mike Janis has a successful Viking tour that a lot of sponsors back. (I am envious and wish the tour was out here on the West Coast.) Just about everyone associated with it has nice things to say about it. I have read sponsors comments saying it is good, room owners saying it is good or the best who have the event there, a bunch of rooms have it back yearly, and I haven't heard any negative comments from players who play in it. Just about everything is positive except for a couple of room owners who have no intention of having his event there and a few others who have no participation in the event.
I don't get it?
A rule I have in business is if something is going good and is successful don't change it. So if I was in Mike Janis's position I probably wouldn't change anything unless at some future point things took a turn for the worse, which doesn't sound like it has happened yet.
From everything I have read on here he seems like a pretty good guy and I certainly don't envy him for what he has to do to pull this tour off. I have run a few events over the years and it is exhausting trying to please everyone. I think if it was a perfect tour and there was a huge amount of added money that all got paid out and the room owners were making a nice profit there probably would still be people harassing him.
Wayne
I don't get it?
A rule I have in business is if something is going good and is successful don't change it. So if I was in Mike Janis's position I probably wouldn't change anything unless at some future point things took a turn for the worse, which doesn't sound like it has happened yet.
From everything I have read on here he seems like a pretty good guy and I certainly don't envy him for what he has to do to pull this tour off. I have run a few events over the years and it is exhausting trying to please everyone. I think if it was a perfect tour and there was a huge amount of added money that all got paid out and the room owners were making a nice profit there probably would still be people harassing him.
Wayne
T
Timberly
Guest
In conjunction with this post I would like to point out something about the players. It's been said many times over about how pool players don't spend money because they need it to gamble, they don't want people to know how much or how little money they have etc.... I'm not going to deny that but what I wanted to point out is that the players actually sit there and figure out the payouts.... They do it at every tournament. I heard one of the top finishers at Valley Forge figure how many players entered the pro event, added up the entry fee's and the total payout.... The Viking tour gets top ranked players and the majority of them are adding up the numbers when it's all said & done. If MJ's #'s weren't on the up & up, I can assure you that there would be a ton of whining (we all know players whine). The viking tour would be almost black balled by the top players. This isn't the case... they keep coming back yr after yr to play in the events. Of course this is the player side, not the RO side. I can't speak for the RO nor will I try to. I've been around the game long enough and have enough friends in the pool world to know that the players look at alot of the same things that the RO's have brought up here. They're certainly not looking at all the same things because the RO's have a different agenda in life than the player. I just wanted to point out that the RO's aren't the only ones looking at the #'s when it comes to payout which is one of the many questions posed here and they seem to be ok with the way the Viking tour is ran.... if they weren't, they wouldn't play.wayne said:
Just back from a softball game. Fastpitch. 0 for 2 with a K. First game of the season. Off to the cages tomorrow. Threw a guy out at the plate though. 0-0 game in the 7th called for darkness. Finish it later.
Well, thanks for the information provided. Was it painless?
Were there any fees not mentioned, like a td fee? I ask because you told watchez over the phone months ago that there was one. I believe it was $1000. Maybe $1500.
Give me the break down on the $10 registration fee. You said something about it going for registration and green fees.
How many memberships were sold?
If I called the owner of Murphy's would he verify these numbers?
If I called several owners would the $2000 added guys tell me the same things. I assume their numbers are different than the $1000 added guys. But, are they all the same in each group?? If not, why not?
I'll be back with more.
Well, thanks for the information provided. Was it painless?
Were there any fees not mentioned, like a td fee? I ask because you told watchez over the phone months ago that there was one. I believe it was $1000. Maybe $1500.
Give me the break down on the $10 registration fee. You said something about it going for registration and green fees.
How many memberships were sold?
If I called the owner of Murphy's would he verify these numbers?
If I called several owners would the $2000 added guys tell me the same things. I assume their numbers are different than the $1000 added guys. But, are they all the same in each group?? If not, why not?
I'll be back with more.
This is why MJ is so excited about the Viking Tour coming to a new area. 35 players x $20. Sweet money right in his pocket. And why would a local hacker want to pay a $20 membership fee? Oh, maybe from the experience they will get 4 balls better and quit their job, go on the road, play a few out of state Viking Tourneys to get the full benefit of their membership and be home busted in 5 weeks.Teacherman said:
And to the earlier poster that stated that pool players wouldn't put up with a Tour that consistently stole from the players. I won't call anyone out but his initials are J.M. and he ran a successful tour for years before anyone figured it out. I can admit that I went to many of his tournaments, mainly as a spectator, and never paid attention to payouts. Then, I staked a good local player in a tournament here and he was playing for the winners bracket. I took the time to add up the money and saw how short it was. I had no problem putting the tournament directors 'on tv' so to speak and let everyone know it was a crock. This earlier poster think that most pool players are this smart? I once watched a real good pool player have so much trouble just simply counting his money that he had to hand it to a friend after attempting himself 3 times.
Ohhhhh, the watchez hotline is ringing and BIG NEWS is about to come soon!!!
T
Timberly
Guest
I didn't say that all of them add it up, but I guarantee you that most of them do.... If I were staking someone.... I would add it up before I did... I've watched players add these #'s for yrs... you must've been a rookie stake horse. As a side note, there's quite a few intelligent pool players in the world. I know people that are everything from pool players to bartenders that have college educations but their college degree doesn't come close to paying what they make bartending, waiting tables, or shooting pool. That's just an unfortunate way of life.watchez said:
I can't stand it. The Watchez Hotline just came through with some BIG INFO. Mike Janis, please read your PM and tell me what I should do. I don't know how much longer I can keep this to myself. Someone call Mike and tell him to check his PM. I can't stand it.
Nostroke said:
If I get the last word, whose fault is it?