Delta rack

I use the Delta Select myself. I'm just fine with it on my Diamond Pro Am 9ft table. I use Aramith TV ball set same as the US Open event uses and the Mosconi Cup. Honestly I would not recommend the extra expense unless you have the extra cash laying around and just want it. Just my opinion.

Kind Regards,
Michael McDonald
Shooters Billiard Supply
www.shootersbilliardsupply.com
 
Bavafongoul said:
Noise?

What happens when you break the rack open?

How many seconds does the noise last?

Why do you roll the balls in the rack to cause the rattle?

Isn't a couple of seconds of noise worth it to use the best rack. assuming it was?

So you'll spring for $140 for the rack but won't spend the extra cash for the inserts?

Personally, I think the elite is cool but $175-180 (incldg inserts) is....is.....well, it's absurd.

I just do not think any rack could be worth $100 (including shipping & tax) and that's likely
overpriced unless the rack was exotic wood or decorative & engraved.....After all, it's only a rack.
Click to expand...

Someone that owns multiple multi-thousand dollar cues should not be saying a price for a rack is absurd LOL Isn't spending $2,000 on a couple of glued pieces or wood with a small metal rod even more absurd? After all, the main work is done by a plain 28" long tapered maple rod with a $10 leather end.

My wood rack cost $25, equal to a $50 Diamond rack and gets the balls as tight as the $100+ Delta rack.

Big cost of the Delta high end rack is how it's made. It's anodized aluminum that won't chip, the cheaper one is painted. About the same cost difference as something like a high end billeted aluminum car wheel for a hot rod vs some cheaper alloy wheel for a Camry.
 
9andout said:
Accu-rack by Outsville.com
Flippy floppy and tight!
Click to expand...

Agree on this. Easy to carry and always gives a tight rack.

I have a Delta. The rack's ability to give a tight rack depends on the condition of cloth. Plus sliding the balls in place will put grooves in the cloth and if the balls roll in side the rack they will eventually get the finish worn off.

🎱
 
Hang-the-9,

Cues prices, at least mine, reflect the amount of time, i.e., labor, and materials involved to finish the cue.
I know how many hours were involved making my cues and how much hands on work was performed.

If a cue was made entirely by CNC equipment, then your remarks might make some sense but that is
not the actual situation. It is not made like the Delta rack is fabricated and there actually is artistry and
wood skills involved making a fancy custom pool cue unlike the Delta rack which is mass produced.

Comparing the prices of my cues to a cue you could pick up at Big 5 Sports is like comparing a pair of
Gucci loafers to a pair you got from Shoe World.....very little to compare except for overall functionality.
Delta racks are overpriced, especially when you include the inserts which it seems are really needed.

The same can be said for cue cases. I have 4 Instroke cases I don't use sitting in my closet. I have a
6x12 case that works great but I want to get a custom made 3x6 or 4x8 leather case. I know the case
will run way over a grand when theres so many less expensive cases available. However, I understand
and accept that the price of the case I want reflects the amount of time it takes to create it versus mass
produced cases. I can see the value and understand why the case costs so much more than others.
If the Elite sold for the price of the Delta Select, that's seems like a more realistic price to me.

By the way, there was more involved making my cues than ...."Isn't spending $2,000 on a couple of glued
pieces or wood with a small metal rod even more absurd? After all, the main work is done by a plain 28" long
tapered maple rod with a $10 leather end. Take a gander and you'll see why cues can cost more than $2k.
The cue in the photos used CNC for making the cuts (over 20 hrs programming) since this was a 1 of 1
design I came up with. However, creating the cue involved pain in the ass wood working skills that required
the cue-maker to actually sweat during the many hours required to build & complete this cue using his hands.

And yes, there is a big difference........I ordered a cue butt weighing 14.5 ozs.......this one weighs exactly that
and it was built without any weight bolt having to be used......and that was no coincidence or just blind luck.
This is why you pay a lot of money for some cues......all pool cues are not alike, haven't you accepted that yet?



Matt B.
 

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Bavafongoul said:
Hang-the-9,

Cues prices, at least mine, reflect the amount of time, i.e., labor, and materials involved to finish the cue.
I know how many hours were involved making my cues and how much hands on work was performed.

If a cue was made entirely by CNC equipment, then your remarks might make some sense but that is
not the actual situation. It is not made like the Delta rack is fabricated and there actually is artistry and
wood skills involved making a fancy custom pool cue unlike the Delta rack which is mass produced.

Comparing the prices of my cues to a cue you could pick up at Big 5 Sports is like comparing a pair of
Gucci loafers to a pair you got from Shoe World.....very little to compare except for overall functionality.
Delta racks are overpriced, especially when you include the inserts which it seems are really needed.

The same can be said for cue cases. I have 4 Instroke cases I don't use sitting in my closet. I have a
6x12 case that works great but I want to get a custom made 3x6 or 4x8 leather case. I know the case
will run way over a grand when theres so many less expensive cases available. However, I understand
and accept that the price of the case I want reflects the amount of time it takes to create it versus mass
produced cases. I can see the value and understand why the case costs so much more than others.
If the Elite sold for the price of the Delta Select, that's seems like a more realistic price to me.

By the way, there was more involved making my cues than ...."Isn't spending $2,000 on a couple of glued
pieces or wood with a small metal rod even more absurd? After all, the main work is done by a plain 28" long
tapered maple rod with a $10 leather end. Take a gander and you'll see why cues can cost a lot more than $2k.


Matt B.
Click to expand...

I do not really understand why it is such a big deal if someone is being paid $20.00 per hour to machine wood to size or if a $250,000 CNC machine is doing the same work. In the end that $20.00 per hour laborer will still need to glue in the inlays, install veneers, joint, tip, ferule, bumper, linen wrap, and perform final prep work and finishing. A CNC doesnt work like throwing all the cue parts in one end of the machine and you get a completely finished cue out of the other end of the machine. There are going to be many, many man hours invested in CNC cues, the biggest difference is you get exacting and repeatable dimensional work from your CNC machine who never calls in sick or shows up hungover.
 
To the point of your post: aside from construction, the biggest functional difference to me is that the Elite is anodized vs. the select model's powder coated finish. While robust, powdercoating is a coating and can wear away or chop, leading to racking irregularity. Anodizing won't suffer the same fate and is, to me, worth the price for a one-and-done purchase. When they were being used frequently in tournaments, the Elite could be had for around $100. That's how I got mine, and it looks like new 4 (5?) years later and still racks perfectly.
 
You likely have never owned your own business because your observation testifies to an absence of understanding of actual business expenses
ranging from overhead, fixed equipment costs, variable costs and such. If you cannot distinguish and understand the implied differences between
people costs and machine/equipment costs, you do not understand the accounting principles involved.

Here's a simple one.......no FICA contribution for machine time......or state payroll taxes, OSHA, or health insurance, or workers comp insurance
predicated on wages paid and job classifications, etc. I could go on for hours giving a class on the true, real costs of owning a business and what
determines profitability but I sense that it would fall on deaf ears based upon some of the comments I've read.
 
DallasHopps said:
To the point of your post: aside from construction, the biggest functional difference to me is that the Elite is anodized vs. the select model's powder coated finish. While robust, powdercoating is a coating and can wear away or chop, leading to racking irregularity. Anodizing won't suffer the same fate and is, to me, worth the price for a one-and-done purchase. When they were being used frequently in tournaments, the Elite could be had for around $100. That's how I got mine, and it looks like new 4 (5?) years later and still racks perfectly.
Click to expand...

They haven't offered a powder coated rack in several years. The Elite is warrantied for commercial use and the Select is not. I use the Elites on our tables and with 14 Teams playing 4 nights a week, Tourneys Saturdays and free pool every Sunday, in 5+ years they rack as new. For a comparison the Diamond wood racks would last a year or two and they would wear to the point of not being able to get anything near a tight rack. Brian.
 
a1712 said:
They haven't offered a powder coated rack in several years. The Elite is warrantied for commercial use and the Select is not. I use the Elites on our tables and with 14 Teams playing 4 nights a week, Tourneys Saturdays and free pool every Sunday, in 5+ years they rack as new. For a comparison the Diamond wood racks would last a year or two and they would wear to the point of not being able to get anything near a tight rack. Brian.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't know they did away with the powdercoated racks- not much need to keep up with current products if you don't have to replace the existing one.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Hang-the-9,

Cues prices, at least mine, reflect the amount of time, i.e., labor, and materials involved to finish the cue.
I know how many hours were involved making my cues and how much hands on work was performed.

If a cue was made entirely by CNC equipment, then your remarks might make some sense but that is
not the actual situation. It is not made like the Delta rack is fabricated and there actually is artistry and
wood skills involved making a fancy custom pool cue unlike the Delta rack which is mass produced.

Comparing the prices of my cues to a cue you could pick up at Big 5 Sports is like comparing a pair of
Gucci loafers to a pair you got from Shoe World.....very little to compare except for overall functionality.
Delta racks are overpriced, especially when you include the inserts which it seems are really needed.

The same can be said for cue cases. I have 4 Instroke cases I don't use sitting in my closet. I have a
6x12 case that works great but I want to get a custom made 3x6 or 4x8 leather case. I know the case
will run way over a grand when theres so many less expensive cases available. However, I understand
and accept that the price of the case I want reflects the amount of time it takes to create it versus mass
produced cases. I can see the value and understand why the case costs so much more than others.
If the Elite sold for the price of the Delta Select, that's seems like a more realistic price to me.

By the way, there was more involved making my cues than ...."Isn't spending $2,000 on a couple of glued
pieces or wood with a small metal rod even more absurd? After all, the main work is done by a plain 28" long
tapered maple rod with a $10 leather end. Take a gander and you'll see why cues can cost more than $2k.
The cue in the photos used CNC for making the cuts (over 20 hrs programming) since this was a 1 of 1
design I came up with. However, creating the cue involved pain in the ass wood working skills that required
the cue-maker to actually sweat during the many hours required to build & complete this cue using his hands.

And yes, there is a big difference........I ordered a cue butt weighing 14.5 ozs.......this one weighs exactly that
and it was built without any weight bolt having to be used......and that was no coincidence or just blind luck.
This is why you pay a lot of money for some cues......all pool cues are not alike, haven't you accepted that yet?



Matt B.
Click to expand...


I will never understand the need to bedazzle a cue butt. Has nothing to do with a cue's playability. Kind of like ordering a car and having the bumpers and the hubcaps covered in ivory and gold inlay. To each his own.
 
I have a Delta 13...it's ok.
I used the Select....cannot tell the difference.
Currently using a Diamond in our clubhouse... It is an excellent well made triangle. There is difference.

Noise from a Delta.... not really. Anything is noisy if manhandled.
 
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I have the Elite at home, that I bought about 10 years ago when they first came out. I also have the magic rack, and new sets of balls. At home, with these conditions, both the Elite and the Magic Rack work well. I give the edge to the Magic Rack.

In the pool hall, with worn balls, the Magic rack wins hands down.

Regarding the noise, I cut my own leather inserts from a piece of leather I had. I cut it so they were a tight fit, didn't need any tape or glue.

In my personal opinion, if you play rotation games, get the Magic rack. If you play straight pool or one pocket, still get the Magic Rack, and also get the Delta rack.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I have the Elite at home, that I bought about 10 years ago when they first came out. I also have the magic rack, and new sets of balls. At home, with these conditions, both the Elite and the Magic Rack work well. I give the edge to the Magic Rack.

In the pool hall, with worn balls, the Magic rack wins hands down.

Regarding the noise, I cut my own leather inserts from a piece of leather I had. I cut it so they were a tight fit, didn't need any tape or glue.

In my personal opinion, if you play rotation games, get the Magic rack. If you play straight pool or one pocket, still get the Magic Rack, and also get the Delta rack.
Click to expand...

Do people use the Magic Rack in straight pool?
 
Bavafongoul said:
You likely have never owned your own business because your observation testifies to an absence of understanding of actual business expenses
ranging from overhead, fixed equipment costs, variable costs and such. If you cannot distinguish and understand the implied differences between
people costs and machine/equipment costs, you do not understand the accounting principles involved.

Here's a simple one.......no FICA contribution for machine time......or state payroll taxes, OSHA, or health insurance, or workers comp insurance
predicated on wages paid and job classifications, etc. I could go on for hours giving a class on the true, real costs of owning a business and what
determines profitability but I sense that it would fall on deaf ears based upon some of the comments I've read.
Click to expand...

But I do have my own business.
But once again that machine does not operate it self, it only does what someone asks it do. It needs to be monitored. Someone has to feed it. Someone needs to maintain it. Someone needs to diagnose and fix problems that crop up during manufacturing. And last but not least a CNC is not a cue building machine, it is a machining center that does a few steps or many steps of machining. That cue will still take an awful lot of hand finishing after the "machining center" is done making saw dust out of wood.
 
If you have your own business, then you have to know that people costs are the largest single expense for any business.
Furthermore, you cannot depreciate people unlike equipment. The Elite is just an over-priced rack with a design flaw, i.e.,
noise, but some people are willing to pay it. The inserts should be included in the price of the Elite racks just to quiet the
noisiness of racking the balls. And IMO, having to buy inserts just to quiet the rack is a just revenue rip-off to the buyer.
 
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