Dennis vs. SVB Full Story- Truth From the Inside

[Get_A_Grip]

You're grasping at straws here. It's not pretty! :thumbup:

Sorry, here is where YOUR bias is shining through. It is a stone cold fact that the match was played for 5k instead of 20k, per your little buddies own words.

This was the big scandal from the beginning. This was Dennis's match and he pocketed the stream money, knowing that people bought the stream and bet on the match thinking it was for 20k.

It is also clear that Dennis was perfectly fine with playing the Shane match for "free", as long as he would get his guaranteed 15k. This is also a fact. I'm starting to doubt that you ever listened to Dennis's interview. That is what is not pretty.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I wonder what the over under was, on French totally blowing himself up in the pool world was.

Didn't think it would be that long, but also didn't think he would be committing pool suicide so damn fast the way he did. Lol

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I wonder what the over under was, on French totally blowing himself up in the pool world was.

Didn't think it would be that long, but also didn't think he would be committing pool suicide so damn fast the way he did. Lol

And something tells me that he doesn't fall under the category of, "Bright stars burn out fast". :thumbup:

So I take it that French won't be taking this to court after all, even though he insinuated that he would pursue this. What is interesting is that French's wife, and sister in law, and brother have been involved in this in some way. A true family affair with Dennis and his Pappi on the other side.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Who is to say that all the "BIG MONEY" matches are on the up and up?

Anybody can borrow a large sum of money, throw it on the table, and pretend it is in the middle for the stakes and then pay it back after the match is over, while they keep the stream money and proceeds from the gate.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Who is to say that all the "BIG MONEY" matches are on the up and up?

Anybody can borrow a large sum of money, throw it on the table, and pretend it is in the middle for the stakes and then pay it back after the match is over, while they keep the stream money and proceeds from the gate.

Time for Justin from TAR to chime in again. We all assumed that the TAR matches were on the up and up, although, I do believe that the players got cuts of the streams?

EDIT: To me I think that the key is that both sides POST before the day of the match. That right there eliminates most of the problem.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Time for Justin from TAR to chime in again. We all assumed that the TAR matches were on the up and up, although, I do believe that the players got cuts of the streams?

I'm not accusing anybody of anything, I'm just putting out food for thought.

If the money is RIGHT, lots of people will do unscrupulous things.

 

[pool_mantra]

"My friend just got his step daughter and her husband over here. It took over a year, there had to be DNA tests proving the step daughter was the daughter of his wife and oh, $50,000 in cash."


50,000 dollars or pesos?

 

[HawaiianEye]

Time for Justin from TAR to chime in again. We all assumed that the TAR matches were on the up and up, although, I do believe that the players got cuts of the streams?

EDIT: To me I think that the key is that both sides POST before the day of the match. That right there eliminates most of the problem.

Posting means nothing if I give your money back in the parking lot.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Posting means nothing if I give your money back in the parking lot.

That's true. Nothing to stop the players from making deals outside of the venue.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Posting means nothing if I give your money back in the parking lot.

How about this idea for a general rule for promoters and streamers.

The winner will NEVER get any cut of the stream for a gambling match. Only the loser could be offered up to half of what they put in the middle from the stream, so that both players can benefit in some way from the match?

 

[Nostroke]

I wonder what the over under was, on French totally blowing himself up in the pool world was.

Didn't think it would be that long, but also didn't think he would be committing pool suicide so damn fast the way he did. Lol

I posted before this all blew up that in 15 months, he would just be a bad memory. I knew that was a lock and was really expecting about 6 months. He fooled me a little.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Sometimes, the biggest mouths are also the biggest nits.

Taking a public big mouthed side bet on X, and then having a friend go around secretly take side bets against X, so that while it appears they are betting hundreds of dollars, they really only have a small amount at actual risk.

All so they can run their mouth about the money they won or lost, so they come off as big shots.

You see one in every generation,. Someone that thinks that by being a big shot loudmouth "gambler" that it somehow makes up for them being an idiot, when in reality, eventually everyone knows they are a still an idiot who won't shut up.

And of course, it's these guys that rip off everyone around them whenever possible.

 

[Johnnyt]

I enjoyed PPV action matches more than tournaments, but now I feel I might as well bet the dogs or horses to get a fair shake. I've been into pool for over 60 years...I should know that pool is as crooked as boxing and wrestling. The ones that are always on the soapbox telling us what they're doing for pool are really just helping there self fill their own pockets. I hope everyone remembers this rip-off the next time a streamer, poolroom, or promoter puts up a poster for PPV. Johnnyt

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I enjoyed PPV action matches more than tournaments, but now I feel I might as well bet the dogs or horses to get a fair shake. I've been into pool for over 60 years...I should know that pool is as crooked as boxing and wrestling. The ones that are always on the soapbox telling us what they're doing for pool are really just helping there self fill their own pockets. I hope everyone remembers this rip-off the next time a streamer, poolroom, or promoter puts up a poster for PPV. Johnnyt

You make a fair comment. Personally, I will buy tournament streams and even gambling ones where I just want to see top-level play, but I doubt that I'll be gambling on the matches anymore. Don't get me wrong, I still think that their are honest players out there, but I do think that the temptation is too strong for many not to cook up some kind of deal that is hidden from the public.

 

[BRussell]

Everyone always knew they were using backers rather than their own money anyway. How different is it really?

 

[dawgcpa]

Streams

Buy the streams for enjoyment purposes only and to support pool. If you decide to bet on a large action match, consider betting on Wrestling's Monday Night Raw....

I'll continue to buy them to support the streamers and the players even if they get a cut. I enjoy watching good pool but I've been around long enough to know not to bet more than a few bucks on a match. It's always been that way and it will continue on as long as pool is played.

I pay the same amount for streams that say exhibition before they start. I always say what separates humans from dogs is we don't have to screw everything that is in heat. We can turn it off. People need to enjoy life for what it is and realize you don't have to bet on everything. You can turn it off.

Enjoy the game for the art of it and if you want to bet a little, consider it a donation....

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Everyone always knew they were using backers rather than their own money anyway. How different is it really?

It's not the backers, it's also the stream monies. For the Ko match, anyone really close to the players and their friends could have found out things like:

1) Ko and Dennis are only playing for a small amount, instead of 20k.
2) The owner of Steinway was furious at Ko for showing up without his post money. I would think that this would really make it hard for Ko to concentrate and play his best. Anyone knowing this before the match, would have a huge advantage when making a bet.
3) If Dennis and Ko were getting a big portion of the stream money, they would have less incentive to put any of their own money in the middle. If this is the case, they could more easily make side bets on one player and adjust play accordingly to achieve the desired outcome.

Not saying any funny business went on with this match, other than not disclosing what was in the middle. But giving players guaranteed money is more likely to induce funny business.

 

[JCIN]

Time for Justin from TAR to chime in again. We all assumed that the TAR matches were on the up and up, although, I do believe that the players got cuts of the streams?

EDIT: To me I think that the key is that both sides POST before the day of the match. That right there eliminates most of the problem.

No player ever got a cut of PPV. In the gambling matches they were paid a fee and/or expenses and possibly cut of any DVD's that got made depending on the individual deal. In the early matches it all varied but there was never any spitting of revenue. This was done mainly for two reasons:

- It made it easy to tell a guy what the deal was.
- We didn't want to get into the whole "You owe me this or that" and having to go through the hassle of showing expenses and income to two different guys on every match.

Everyone knew exactly what each deal was going in with regards to what we as promoters were promising.

The later matches in the Studio we put up a prize fund for the guys to play for and set up the format. An example would be $5000 prize fund for a three discipline match that paid $1000 to the winner and $500 to loser for each discipline with the overall winner getting a $500 bonus and getting the call to come back and play again. Both guys got decent money for a weekend but there was enough worth playing for that it kept guys motivated.

Again individual formats and payouts varied but that was the basic way it was done for everything in the studio.

The way we did it was hard and put all of the risk on TAR. The players got paid no matter what the PPV turnout was. If we did good then we made some money. More than a few we lost money after expenses but there was never any of the BS like what we have seen lately.

Any fool can put on a fake show and chop up the gate and PPV. I turned down several offers by people who thought they were smart. My reputation was always worth more to me than a few thousand bucks.

 

[Baby Huey]

The resolution here is simple: I'm sure Don Vito and Lucca Brassi can make John French an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Teacherman]

A very real possibility....as the main cause of French losing his gamble....then blaming someone else....all so he could get out of the trap....is that the streams do not produce the kind of revenue he guessed.

IMO, the size of the stream in the Dennis/Ko match.....schooled him. And he couldn't afford to go forward with the Dennis/Shane match.

Just my educated guess.