Developing Expertise In Pool

[CJ Wiley]

This is interesting, but it seems counterintuitive that you could position your body correctly for a shot without sighting the line of the shot to know where your body would need to be. I would think you would have to be keying off of some part of the shot to establish the needed position?

It is counterintuitive, almost the opposite way of perceiving the shot. Imagine if you were the greatest pistol marksman in the world, wouldn't you position your feet the same every time Before you start fine-tuning your Aim?!? After a week or two you'll be in the body position and aiming at the same time, at first, when making the transition it's essential to position your body in the position I suggest First! Experiment with it, I have videos on the stance you can find with a Google search.....I'll be fine with answering any questions, there's more to it, and like building a home it starts with an Ideal Foundation.

 

[mantis99]

I worked on doing it last night.
In a way it’s a bit like the video game pov where the guy has his gun up walking straight ahead.
That guy knows the importance of being aligned to his gun.
The shot has less influence on the setup.
I’m left eye dominant and right handed, an sometimes I get aligned with my eye, the tip the tip contact point and shoot only to discover I was looking from the left side of the cue, having lost the shaft, in awareness.
My cue was pointed left as a result.
Doing it this way my shaft is never lost since I’m aligning to my cue first.
You can still plan and aim before the alignment process.
You can walk the aimed cue into the shot.
As CJ says the difference may seem subtle, however, every shot feels the same.
The influence of the shot on how I align is gone.
Aligning is basically the same, and feels that way, regardless of the shot.
The intended ball paths match expected paths.
The straight in shot is the acid test for most players.
Perceptual alignment meeting physical delivery alignment straightness, sees both balls following the same path.

So essentially you establish your lower half to cue position first, then look at the shot, and follow that up with your normal step into position?

 

[mantis99]

It is counterintuitive, almost the opposite way of perceiving the shot. Imagine if you were the greatest pistol marksman in the world, wouldn't you position your feet the same every time Before you start fine-tuning your Aim?!? After a week or two you'll be in the body position and aiming at the same time, at first, when making the transition it's essential to position your body in the position I suggest First! Experiment with it, I have videos on the stance you can find with a Google search.....I'll be fine with answering any questions, there's more to it, and like building a home it starts with an Ideal Foundation.

Thx for the response. I am interested to try this. I will have to take a look at the videos and see what questions arise as I try it

 

[Imac007]

So essentially you establish your lower half to cue position first, then look at the shot, and follow that up with your normal step into position?

Your use of the word “normal” is where meanings can get mixed.
If your normal was to find the shot line first then arrange your body to the line, that is the primary reference for the shot.
If your body position for delivering a straight cue is your primary reference, and it’s your normal process, then assuming that position comes first, you will take that position onto your perceived aim line, replicating the foot position, whenever possible.
The more you do it the more seamless the positioning becomes the new normal.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Thx for the response. I am interested to try this. I will have to take a look at the videos and see what questions arise as I try it

From my experience it can be learned in less than 3 hours, fine tuning and making it natural takes 2-3 weeks...... it's deceptively challenging to set the body position first because of the precise footwork required...... mostly because of past programming, like riding a bike it takes repetitions, always striving for precise, consistent foot work, balance and alignment.

The Game is the Teacher

 

[Imac007]

From my experience it can be learned in less than 3 hours, fine tuning and making it natural takes 2-3 weeks...... it's deceptively challenging to set the body position first because of the precise footwork required...... mostly because of past programming, like riding a bike it takes repetitions, always striving for precise, consistent foot work, balance and alignment.

The Game is the Teacher

In my opinion, this paradigm shift is literally game changing.
Each context has one thing at the top of its evaluation list.
That criteria, in the case of those who fixate on finding the target line, is the shot line.

Years ago when learning I was introduced to the idea of developing a stroke by laying a pop bottle down and learning to stroke into the neck to train a straight stroke.
On the surface that idea seems to have merit but through the lenses of finishing strokes, the training stunts a natural good penetrating action.
In training sessions, coaches talk about the failure of players to take skills learned in practice into games.
Introducing another paradigm shift my solution is to take the game into the practice, a reversal of the normal drill context.
The soda bottle idea emphasized the straight stroke but lacked the ability to bring the game into the practice.

The paradigm shift of taking the shooting context and putting the straight stroke at the top of the criteria list of importance, relegates the shot line down a notch but preserves its integrity.

CJ brought more than a cueing concept, an inside stroke, paradigm shift, largely because it avoided center ball cut induced throw problems.

A second paradigm shift, cue stroke straightness as the top evaluative criteria to bring into the execution context, was the second.

The trifecta paradigm shift was replacing the center ball margin of error concept, where 2 different margins are used, each addressing a different error, one to the inside side of the cut angle and the other to the outside.
Each of them is from the perspective of a bridge on center line, creating a new shot line, plus adding side spin.
When center ball players need side for positional purposes they need adjust their aim line in advance to account for deflection and spin dynamics.
The undercut line, combined with a small inside cue line offset are the adjustments made BEFORE the shot meaning the entire pocket width is receptive to the same range of cueing errors that can result in center ball misses.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[garczar]

In my opinion, this paradigm shift is literally game changing.
Each context has one thing at the top of its evaluation list.
That criteria, in the case of those who fixate on finding the target line, is the shot line.

Years ago when learning I was introduced to the idea of developing a stroke by laying a pop bottle down and learning to stroke into the neck to train a straight stroke.
On the surface that idea seems to have merit but through the lenses of finishing strokes, the training stunts a natural good penetrating action.
In training sessions, coaches talk about the failure of players to take skills learned in practice into games.
Introducing another paradigm shift my solution is to take the game into the practice, a reversal of the normal drill context.
The soda bottle idea emphasized the straight stroke but lacked the ability to bring the game into the practice.

The paradigm shift of taking the shooting context and putting the straight stroke at the top of the criteria list of importance, relegates the shot line down a notch but preserves its integrity.

CJ brought more than a cueing concept, an inside stroke, paradigm shift, largely because it avoided center ball cut induced throw problems.

A second paradigm shift, cue stroke straightness as the top evaluative criteria to bring into the execution context, was the second.

The trifecta paradigm shift was replacing the center ball margin of error concept, where 2 different margins are used, each addressing a different error, one to the inside side of the cut angle and the other to the outside.
Each of them is from the perspective of a bridge on center line, creating a new shot line, plus adding side spin.
When center ball players need side for positional purposes they need adjust their aim line in advance to account for deflection and spin dynamics.
The undercut line, combined with a small inside cue line offset are the adjustments made BEFORE the shot meaning the entire pocket width is receptive to the same range of cueing errors that can result in center ball misses.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

'trifecta paradigm shift'???? WTF??? I think you might be WAY over-thinking your approach. It ain't rocket science. Some of the best players i ever saw could barely read at a jr. high level. They saw the ball and shot the ball. Had a great feel for the tangent line and speed without ever being told a thing. No substitution for just playing a LOT.

 

[Imac007]

'trifecta paradigm shift'???? WTF??? I think you might be WAY over-thinking your approach. It ain't rocket science. Some of the best players i ever saw could barely read at a jr. high level. They saw the ball and shot the ball. Had a great feel for the tangent line and speed without ever being told a thing. No substitution for just playing a LOT.

This topic was about moving from being the player who plays a lot and isn’t yet pro caliber, to the next level.
Those players have played a LOT.
Based on your contribution here, the paradigm that gets you there is becoming illiterate, and just shooting balls at balls without thinking or receiving any advice.
The quoted comment was a response for CJ.

 

[Jaden]

So essentially you establish your lower half to cue position first, then look at the shot, and follow that up with your normal step into position?

Yep. I like to align my rear foot's inside of my heel with the line of the shot before I even look at the true alignment. If you're setting up right, you'll be on the line of the shot before you ever bend over.

Jaden

 

[chefjeff]

Yep. I like to align my rear foot's inside of my heel with the line of the shot before I even look at the true alignment. If you're setting up right, you'll be on the line of the shot before you ever bend over.

Jaden

I use the little bump on the inside of my ankle as the point to put in the aiming plane.

Then I turn my foot from a right angle to about 22 degrees off of that.

That sets my back foot. I then can do anything but move that foot. I can take a drink, scan the room, replay the shot in my mind, etc.

Once that is set, it is the anchor, I call it. I then practice anally to put the other pieces in place relative to that.

When I compete, I forget all that and allow my subconscious mind, if you will, to just do it. If I'm out of line during play, I may revisit the back foot set-up ingredients and make sure I'm not way out of line, etc.


Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

At least you set the AZB record for the use of 'paradigm shift' in one post. I'm gona have nightmares about my 'spin dynamics'.

This topic was about moving from being the player who plays a lot and isn’t yet pro caliber, to the next level.
Those players have played a LOT.
Based on your contribution here, the paradigm that gets you there is becoming illiterate, and just shooting balls at balls without thinking or receiving any advice.
The quoted comment was a response for CJ

 

[CJ Wiley]

In my opinion, this paradigm shift is literally game changing.
Each context has one thing at the top of its evaluation list.
That criteria, in the case of those who fixate on finding the target line, is the shot line.

Years ago when learning I was introduced to the idea of developing a stroke by laying a pop bottle down and learning to stroke into the neck to train a straight stroke.
On the surface that idea seems to have merit but through the lenses of finishing strokes, the training stunts a natural good penetrating action.
In training sessions, coaches talk about the failure of players to take skills learned in practice into games.
Introducing another paradigm shift my solution is to take the game into the practice, a reversal of the normal drill context.
The soda bottle idea emphasized the straight stroke but lacked the ability to bring the game into the practice.

The paradigm shift of taking the shooting context and putting the straight stroke at the top of the criteria list of importance, relegates the shot line down a notch but preserves its integrity.

CJ brought more than a cueing concept, an inside stroke, paradigm shift, largely because it avoided center ball cut induced throw problems.

A second paradigm shift, cue stroke straightness as the top evaluative criteria to bring into the execution context, was the second.

The trifecta paradigm shift was replacing the center ball margin of error concept, where 2 different margins are used, each addressing a different error, one to the inside side of the cut angle and the other to the outside.
Each of them is from the perspective of a bridge on center line, creating a new shot line, plus adding side spin.
When center ball players need side for positional purposes they need adjust their aim line in advance to account for deflection and spin dynamics.
The undercut line, combined with a small inside cue line offset are the adjustments made BEFORE the shot meaning the entire pocket width is receptive to the same range of cueing errors that can result in center ball misses.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

That's right, many times players simply don't have the correct perspective and need a paradigm shift. Sometimes it takes an hour to create the right mind set, and in many cases the player has to accept that their core beliefs about the game are incorrect.

Another thing I see players do, is Align to their Shots using a part of their body ie: right ankle, right hip, right shoulder, right foot etc. INSTEAD of their Visual Center!

I use the analogy of shooting a pistol and see if they align their ankle, or hip to the target when shooting a bullet and it's laughable.....but they do it when shooting pool. Using this analogy changes paradigms as fast as anything, unless they haven't shot a pistol then you can use Darts, Basketball shooting, or pitching a coin to compare "shooting out of your center" - This is very very important and only the greatest pool players do it naturally (they learn it by modeling other champions).

The Game is the Teacher

 

[garczar]

That's right, many times players simply don't have the correct perspective and need a paradigm shift. Sometimes it takes an hour to create the right mind set, and in many cases the player has to accept that their core beliefs about the game are incorrect.

Another thing I see players do, is Align to their Shots using a part of their body ie: right ankle, right hip, right shoulder, right foot etc. INSTEAD of their Visual Center!

I use the analogy of shooting a pistol and see if they align their ankle, or hip to the target when shooting a bullet and it's laughable.....but they do it when shooting pool. Using this analogy changes paradigms as fast as anything, unless they haven't shot a pistol then you can use Darts, Basketball shooting, or pitching a coin to compare "shooting out of your center" - This is very very important and only the greatest pool players do it naturally (they learn it by modeling other champions).

The Game is the Teacher

Big difference in shooting a pistol vs. a pool stroke is that with a pistol your body is not whats delivering the projectile. In pool/darts/basketball you are the one delivering the cue/dart/ball. I get what you're saying about 'vision center' and it is critical.

 

[Imac007]

Big difference in shooting a pistol vs. a pool stroke is that with a pistol your body is not whats delivering the projectile. In pool/darts/basketball you are the one delivering the cue/dart/ball. I get what you're saying about 'vision center' and it is critical.

A dictionary definition of analogy is
“a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect”
The spirit of CJ’s explanation was a comparison of the sameness of the alignment part of both activities, with respect to the visual perspective, despite the differences otherwise.
A spot on metaphor triggers instant understanding because so many parallels exist.
In this case the parallels are limited and that is why he termed it an analogy.
Part of earlier discussion was about how the lower body often morphs but the upper body needs to keep its relative structure despite the need of the body to adjust to the table and other obstructions.
The perfect stance reference includes the upper body characteristics that go into other than perfect lower body adjustments.
Taking perfect sighting alignment needs the “vision center” as the pivot point from where targeting takes place.
Despite the presence of less than optimal situational conditions certain physiological criteria need to be met, and the sighting perspective is constant, as the top criteria, across all targeting contexts.
That constant across multiple contexts makes it a principle.
Very few things retain their evaluative importance across most contexts.
They become the basis on which to build your game.
The neigh sayers and the gifted mouth come to mind.
Knowledge without implementation is just information, applied it becomes wisdom.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Big difference in shooting a pistol vs. a pool stroke is that with a pistol your body is not whats delivering the projectile. In pool/darts/basketball you are the one delivering the cue/dart/ball. I get what you're saying about 'vision center' and it is critical.

Shooting a pistol is a much better analogy than shooting a rifle like some of the instructional "experts" will claim. When shooting a pistol you will establish your feet position FIRST, then your body is in th same position every shot and you're aligned to the Bullseye. From this reference position if you need to shoot to the left of the bullseye you would not change your feet position, you'd use the bullseye baseline and they shoot an inch, two or even three inches to the right or left.

When you get to 3 inches from the center (3 inches is 3 angles in this analogy), you will change your stance to align perfectly to the "3 inches to the right" position, then you have a solid reference to aim 3 inches (angles) more to the right, this would enable you, in pool to make every shot possible.

The alignment portions are either Center/Center, or Center/Edge, then allow your instinct (subconscious) to create the angle, it's very easy when you're starting from the same body position EVERY TIME.

This makes a Huge difference when you understand the ideal body position and how it puts your hips an the ideal angle to be able to CLEAR them out of the way so you can go down on every shot with the best visual perspective.....with both eyes working together and your connection to the shots give you vastly better cueball control and touch/feel.

The Game is the Teacher

 

[chefjeff]

I used to think of the LINE of aim, a 2 dimensional concept.

Now, I think of the PLANE of the aim, a 3 dimensional concept.

That means not just the feet get aligned, but the upper body parts, too, to the plane. I'm IN it, so to speak, not on it.

It's like a giant window pane going through the shot, the cue, the table, and me.

It helped me align better.

It also makes sure I'm aiming exactly at how the cueball starts down that plane, with shots using side.

fwiw,


Jeff Livingston

 

[Imac007]

Shooting a pistol is a much better analogy than shooting a rifle like some of the instructional "experts" will claim.

As with most descriptions, the wording is mapping terminology and not exactly the actual thing.
A pistol fired from the hip often fails to align the vision center to the barrel and upright stances, have that sense of the gunslinger.
The instructors using the sniper analogy are moving the player towards the head and shaft alignment.
The extreme interpretation of that is one eye down at cue level.
An analogy is still a mapping tool.
The key is to take the upper body structure into the aiming position consistently.
Footwork is just part of the start of that process.
Pulling that process back into consciousness at some time during setup assures the expert he can move from ready to aim and finally the fire stage.

 

[ShootingArts]

The upper body is the key to proper alignment.
The lower body needs to morph to adjust to the equipment and other demands that might arise to keep the upper body delivery system in place.
The role of the standard stance, as presented in instruction, is to help us find that alignment slot.
That acts as a reference once established.

I use a simple sheet of paper to help illustrate that alignment.
Set it in portrait mode in front of you.
Take the lower left corner and move it diagonally up and towards the right edge of the paper.
The bottom edge of the paper needs to be aligned to the right edge as the paper starts to fold.
Precisely aligning the bottom and right side edges and smoothing the paper creates a diagonal crease.
The crease is the object lesson.
With the crease anywhere else the right sides don’t align.

The paper represents the body with the alignment opposite the right side.
The hips represent the bottom edge, square to the alignment line.
The body folds along the hip line if you bend from the joints not the waist, our crease line.
When the left foot or knee are moved forward it changes the hip line as it rotates in a clockwise direction.
As the crease created by folding along the hip line, the bridge hand can be reached over to the right edge, the shot alignment.
When the hip plane is right the fold aligns naturally and the body can fold flat.
If the left foot is too far ahead, the flattened back will push the alignment too far right or not be able to get right down fully.
If the left foot stays back square and doesn’t advance, the hips folding forward, make it hard to get and keep the heads position over the shot line.
The hands can adjust that right side alignment somewhat but the flat back plane constrains the variability.
Idealists would find the alignment of the aim line, the cue, the upper arm positioned behind the head’s aim perspective, with a vertical cueing arm, and body right down, the gold standard.
This process can place the body there.

Once the body finds the proper position for the upper body, muscle memory can bookmark that slot.
This process was just to find that unencumbered reference, to start from.
The rest is the ability to morph the lower body including the hip line and still retain the aim and delivery alignment.

And, you are so right, about how that puts attentional demands on the player mentally.
Add the pressure of coping with competitive stress and the fabric of the alignment can unravel under pressure.
That is why a trigger like the folded hip line position can reduce the thought process to a straight delivery from an aligned position.

Your first sentence is one of the most important in this thread. There will be a significant percentage of shots where you can't align your lower body perfectly. If you can't make these shots you have no chance of winning much of anything.

All the talk of guns is interesting. As a former Master pistol competitor and successful benchrest rifle competitor who has won matches over world record holders I find some gross misstatements. Everything from shoulders to grip and trigger finger are going to function as a unit when shooting a pistol. Foot position makes the first shot harder or easier. Most of the time we align the feet so that the natural line of the pistol out of the holster, for the individual shooter, makes the pistol come up on the first target. However, sometimes with widely spaced targets or one target being much more difficult than others we position our feet and hips to align on the middle target or the toughest target and shoot a more awkward first target or first several targets falling into our perfect angle at a time that benefits that particular stage.

Anyone that cares to watch an USPC or ISPC match on youtube will see that many shots must be shot with everything out of position except the grip and trigger finger. The top shooters still shoot perfect runs. There are times when nothing is right on the pool table too but we still have to produce an aim, body position, and stroke that makes the shot, pocketing the object ball and getting shape. That is why I don't worry too much about my feet. As a person of a bit over average height I can often get my feet in the right position. However, I think that the shots when it isn't possible to position ourselves perfectly but we still deliver are the ones that win for us. Nice to have a base line but that is all perfect body position is. Sometimes when a bridge isn't handy or I am lazy I shoot some shots in a position where both arms would be over my head if I wasn't bent over. My stance is horrible, my eyes wildly off of the shot line. If we consider a right angle triangle my eyes would be at the end of the base leg, the cue ball at the base point, and the object ball at the point where the two longest legs meet. Oddly enough I rarely miss these shots! Everything wrong but I still make the shot including shape. That old eye, mind, computer doing it's thing.

It isn't the textbook shots that separate the good and better players, it is the tough shots. Good to know the basics because they are going to make the "duck" shots, as in "sitting duck". However, you have to make those shots when a wood duck is coming in from behind you at a hundred miles an hour and you are twisting like a contortionist too!

Hu

 

[ceebee]

On what? How would you know if you did it? Is it an inner cognitive thing? Or, is it outwards onto part of the execution like Jackie Stewart? How would you measure it? Please be more specific, there are tons of generalities out there like HAMB.

Video can be a big help with that task... Video captures your performance & can be replayed, at will. It also can capture audio, so be sure to talk to yourself, about what is transpiring, so you'll know next week, next month when you are reviewing your performance.

 

[Imac007]

Video can be a big help with that task... Video captures your performance & can be replayed, at will. It also can capture audio, so be sure to talk to yourself, about what is transpiring, so you'll know next week, next month when you are reviewing your performance.

Welcome to this ever evolving thread.
I use a journal regularity but a video journal with the idea of vocalizing while videoing to externalize the internal dialogue makes sense.
Under stress attention narrows and internalizes.
I sometimes utilize an external dialogue as a coping and refocusing strategy.
Verbalizing forces the mind onto the external sound and if you use the dialogue to narrate the factors involved in the shot it has that ability to control focus.
That post is early in the thread, enjoy the read.