Developing Expertise In Pool

I went through the Silva Mind Control classes, being from Texas I was lucky, as a matter of fact Richard Bandler lived 8 houses down from the Naturalistic doctor that did Cell Therapy to me one summer (27 injections) - what made it even more "coincidental" is that Richard and the Doctor had a relationship with the same lady (I'm not sure if they were both married to her or not).

The Silva Mind Control was very helpful in my pool career AND restaurant/nighclub/billiard club businesses in many ways.

A funny story.......one day I was going to the Dallas/Ft Worth Airport with 10 minutes to spare and could NOT find my car keys. I looked everywhere I could think of and no keys.....now I had 3 minutes or would probably miss my flight and it was very important at the time.

I stopped by my pool table and did one of the Silva Mind Control visualizations to find missing things.....it seemed silly, finding my key was more important than doing .......suddenly I saw a small fuzz ball on the carpet, bent down, picked it up, went in the kitchen, stepped on the devise that raised the trash can lid and through the piece of fuzz in the trash.......then walked back towards the pool table.

I STOPPED dead in my tracks "why in the world did I just do that!?!".....then it hit me, I went back in the kitchen looked down at the bottom of the trash and there were my Keys! I had come in earlier, with groceries in my hand, and had put the keys in my dress shirt pocket.....then, multitasking had opened the trash, bent down and the keys had fallen out of my pocket into the trash without me noticing.

I'd still be looking for those keys lol - after that I started giving the Silva techniques I'd learned more respect and they helped me out of several tough situations......talking about NLP and Silva Mind Control is making me want to do a current review, it's been too long!!

The Game is the Teacher
Trevor Silvester is a UK hypnotherapist, using Cognitive therapy and NLP techniques. He twigged me to an Eriksonian hypnotherapist named Stephen Wolinsky. He discovered that most of his clients didn’t need him to get them in a trance to fix their issues. Much to his surprise most were already stuck in a dysfunction trance and needed his help in getting out of trance. Silvester subscribes to Wolinsky’s insights. Viewing everyday activities as trance states, like Erickson believed, we see that we transition between them during the everyday flow of experience. Some states demand competence while others, especially our professions require mastery and excellence. As you have eloquently put, with stories acting as parables, that a good toolbox can have many origins. And, that tools can be useful across diverse disciplines from pool to running a business.

i was once approached about using pool as a platform for teaching many of the performance techniques and ideas I had developed along the way. Though the idea was intriguing, the tip ming was wrong. I’ve often wondered....

Silvester subtitled his book on Cognitive Hypnotherapy - What’s That About and How Can I Use It?

When someone has a trance state like a phobia, they never fail. Isn’t a preshot routine trying for that type of repetition? Phobics have lost their ability to choose. Now, that’s what I call consistency. This relates to the NLP tenet, that every behavior has a context in which it is appropriate. The two questions look at any perspective and see where it’s useful.

Thanks for help making this thread relevant.
 
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I posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I think it might go hand in hand with this thread and getting over some focus related problems:

Bert Kinister said this:
"Some pool players are predators and some are warriors. Ya know the difference between a predator and a warrior is a predator hunts food ya know and a warrior hunts men. Be a warrior. Whatever happens don't be the food. Don't be the food. Be a predator and be a warrior, don't be dinner kids."

Do you want to be a predator or a warrior? Answer this to yourself, you don't have to post it here on the forum. If the answer is no, then don't worry about it. Improve as you will, have fun and don't worry too much. If you want to be a predator or a warrior, do as a kitten does. Play with your food during practice, practice your strike, practice the kill. Once a kitten plays enough, they go on a real hunt. They miss a lot. The hunger eventually drives them to their peak form where they deliver the kill in one stroke.

A predator doesn't jerk. A predator waits until they know the kill is a certainty then they strike. Don't shoot until you are certain the OB drops and the CB lies where you want it. Don't jerk, but strike, whether it is a soft strike or powerful strike. A predator doesn't waste energy. If a soft swipe will get them lunch, that's what they do, they don't believe in overkill. Think of a baby deer first standing, it jerks. Prey jerks. Again, a predator delivers the blow (be it soft or hard) only when they know it's the correct shot.

Get your mind in predator mode. You might be still batting the mouse like a kitten, but know why you are doing it and have a purpose (to build your hunting ability) and your strike, don't just bat the mouse for mental masturbation. The goal is the food. (Focus)

It's all a mind trick, but if you get into "predator" mode while practicing and playing, you'll get much better results. It's in your DNA.

Gene's perfect aim system gets your aim correct, IE you see the prey clearly and see it's vital parts instead of attacking it's tail, your going for it's jugular. (This was in the perfect aim thread)

So my advice on how to specifically practice is do it like a predator. How you choose to toy with the mouse as a kitten isn't as important as doing it with a clear goal. Did the mouse get away because you forgot to pounce at the right time? Work on timing. Work on speed, work on aim, work on whatever is giving you a problem. Only the cat knows where it's weakness lies and only the cat can improve that weakness so it can get the food.

It sounds ridiculous I know, but if I'm feeling unsure of a shot I think to myself, don't jerk, strike. Again, it's a mental trick, but it makes me focus on the correct aim, speed, spin, etc. It puts my mind into a more primal mode where laziness doesn't exist. I don't want the food to get away. Don't jerk, strike.

Lower level players don't improve because they aren't hungry like a predator. Stoke your hunger.
 
I posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I think it might go hand in hand with this thread and getting over some focus related problems:

Bert Kinister said this:
"Some pool players are predators and some are warriors. Ya know the difference between a predator and a warrior is a predator hunts food ya know and a warrior hunts men. Be a warrior. Whatever happens don't be the food. Don't be the food. Be a predator and be a warrior, don't be dinner kids."

Do you want to be a predator or a warrior? Answer this to yourself, you don't have to post it here on the forum. If the answer is no, then don't worry about it. Improve as you will, have fun and don't worry too much. If you want to be a predator or a warrior, do as a kitten does. Play with your food during practice, practice your strike, practice the kill. Once a kitten plays enough, they go on a real hunt. They miss a lot. The hunger eventually drives them to their peak form where they deliver the kill in one stroke.

A predator doesn't jerk. A predator waits until they know the kill is a certainty then they strike. Don't shoot until you are certain the OB drops and the CB lies where you want it. Don't jerk, but strike, whether it is a soft strike or powerful strike. A predator doesn't waste energy. If a soft swipe will get them lunch, that's what they do, they don't believe in overkill. Think of a baby deer first standing, it jerks. Prey jerks. Again, a predator delivers the blow (be it soft or hard) only when they know it's the correct shot.

Get your mind in predator mode. You might be still batting the mouse like a kitten, but know why you are doing it and have a purpose (to build your hunting ability) and your strike, don't just bat the mouse for mental masturbation. The goal is the food. (Focus)

It's all a mind trick, but if you get into "predator" mode while practicing and playing, you'll get much better results. It's in your DNA.

Gene's perfect aim system gets your aim correct, IE you see the prey clearly and see it's vital parts instead of attacking it's tail, your going for it's jugular. (This was in the perfect aim thread)

So my advice on how to specifically practice is do it like a predator. How you choose to toy with the mouse as a kitten isn't as important as doing it with a clear goal. Did the mouse get away because you forgot to pounce at the right time? Work on timing. Work on speed, work on aim, work on whatever is giving you a problem. Only the cat knows where it's weakness lies and only the cat can improve that weakness so it can get the food.

It sounds ridiculous I know, but if I'm feeling unsure of a shot I think to myself, don't jerk, strike. Again, it's a mental trick, but it makes me focus on the correct aim, speed, spin, etc. It puts my mind into a more primal mode where laziness doesn't exist. I don't want the food to get away. Don't jerk, strike.

Lower level players don't improve because they aren't hungry like a predator. Stoke your hunger.
One night before a weekly money game with
I posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I think it might go hand in hand with this thread and getting over some focus related problems:

Bert Kinister said this:
"Some pool players are predators and some are warriors. Ya know the difference between a predator and a warrior is a predator hunts food ya know and a warrior hunts men. Be a warrior. Whatever happens don't be the food. Don't be the food. Be a predator and be a warrior, don't be dinner kids."

Do you want to be a predator or a warrior? Answer this to yourself, you don't have to post it here on the forum. If the answer is no, then don't worry about it. Improve as you will, have fun and don't worry too much. If you want to be a predator or a warrior, do as a kitten does. Play with your food during practice, practice your strike, practice the kill. Once a kitten plays enough, they go on a real hunt. They miss a lot. The hunger eventually drives them to their peak form where they deliver the kill in one stroke.

A predator doesn't jerk. A predator waits until they know the kill is a certainty then they strike. Don't shoot until you are certain the OB drops and the CB lies where you want it. Don't jerk, but strike, whether it is a soft strike or powerful strike. A predator doesn't waste energy. If a soft swipe will get them lunch, that's what they do, they don't believe in overkill. Think of a baby deer first standing, it jerks. Prey jerks. Again, a predator delivers the blow (be it soft or hard) only when they know it's the correct shot.

Get your mind in predator mode. You might be still batting the mouse like a kitten, but know why you are doing it and have a purpose (to build your hunting ability) and your strike, don't just bat the mouse for mental masturbation. The goal is the food. (Focus)

It's all a mind trick, but if you get into "predator" mode while practicing and playing, you'll get much better results. It's in your DNA.

Gene's perfect aim system gets your aim correct, IE you see the prey clearly and see it's vital parts instead of attacking it's tail, your going for it's jugular. (This was in the perfect aim thread)

So my advice on how to specifically practice is do it like a predator. How you choose to toy with the mouse as a kitten isn't as important as doing it with a clear goal. Did the mouse get away because you forgot to pounce at the right time? Work on timing. Work on speed, work on aim, work on whatever is giving you a problem. Only the cat knows where it's weakness lies and only the cat can improve that weakness so it can get the food.

It sounds ridiculous I know, but if I'm feeling unsure of a shot I think to myself, don't jerk, strike. Again, it's a mental trick, but it makes me focus on the correct aim, speed, spin, etc. It puts my mind into a more primal mode where laziness doesn't exist. I don't want the food to get away. Don't jerk, strike.

Lower level players don't improve because they aren't hungry like a predator. Stoke your hunger.
This has been written about earlier in the thread.

FeelDaShot said:
8. Capitalization: At the top level you don't get many opportunities to pull ahead. Once an opportunity arises, you must capitalize on it. That's one of SVB's major strengths. He always amazes me with his ability to break and run the final rack in a hill-hill match. At the most high pressure moment of the match he finds a way to stay composed and capitalizes on the opportunity to win.

This is almost like a predator mindset without the need for there to be prey, the challenge is enough. The challenge alone feeds the motivation, stirs the master to emerge, brings the selflessness of detached clarity to the performance. The situation is as much a needed part of the context as any other ingredient. That said, the point was taking advantage of opportunity when it’s offered. I think finding another level to your game is almost a separate point.

straightline said:
Inordinately astute observation here. Back to the front of this thread, I don't do pool in such an intellectually detailed manner. I approach pool from the premise that competition is done wrong (rong, if you will). The object of competitive pool is a no brainer. Don't Be A Fish.

It's this DBAF mindset that causes all the issues and perpetuates the genre/illusion of it.

The question I ask is the "foolhardy" one. What if I (you/anybody) just ran 'em over?
Such as that may be perceived, that's why I do pool. Playing and observing show <what> as well as <what is lacking and in need of evolution>.

Granted I still have lots of requisite skill and knowledge to cover and don't expect to be on any money lists but the goal is _ pool_ and not the titles of competition.
Click to expand...

One of the things about stress is that it tends to cause attention to narrow and internalize. To counter that inward focus the player needs to direct their attention to the table. Shaking hands lets you feel the nervous sweat on your opponents palm. Pay attention to signs of nervousness in your opponent. Be ready to pounce when an error is made. Add pressure to force the other player into their head. Too many players make a ball or two then when a run out is not possible, look for a safe place for the balls. Back up and recognize the bad odds a shot or two earlier. You may need to make a ball to get shape for a lockup safety.

Put the ob nearby trouble areas, on safeties, so a ball in hand allows for breakouts. Be patient. Time adds pressure to anxiety. Keep your focus outwards on achieving results. Going inwards to think about a technique is fine but you need to bring focus back outward when shooting. Imagine the result when done properly and simply do it.

Switch focus when away from the table, to your opponent, to notice signs of weakness or nervousness. You won’t see opportunity unless you are watching.
Predators stalk. The predator is just a metaphor. Predators are often, too hungry. That’s how to turn a predator into prey. Tempt them in impossible position situations. Too much hunger makes them impatient. Learn detachment.

You don’t need to kill a sheep to shear it.
 
I'm still on pool so I refrain from playing "the other guy". I don't even consciously do any sharking and certainly nothing crass. Cripple and rob is for jocks.
 
I'm still on pool so I refrain from playing "the other guy". I don't even consciously do any sharking and certainly nothing crass. Cripple and rob is for jocks.
In leagues and tournaments the detachment is a plus. When reeling in a fish sometimes you need to vary the speed of the bait.
 
In leagues and tournaments the detachment is a plus. When reeling in a fish sometimes you need to vary the speed of the bait.
Call me nurd but I find hustling hokey at best; not that I can act. I can though appreciate the predator crowd. They showed me how pool and that part of life goes.
 
I'm still on pool so I refrain from playing "the other guy". I don't even consciously do any sharking and certainly nothing crass. Cripple and rob is for jocks.
Yeah I don't either. I'm more talking about playing the table in predator mode. It's all a mental trick, but it helps me focus and only take shots I'm sure of the result. I literally don't care what the other person is doing, except for strategy. If they can't bank, I can feel safer if I fire a 2 way that if missed leaves them a tough bank.
 
Oh
Yeah I don't either. I'm more talking about playing the table in predator mode. It's all a mental trick, but it helps me focus and only take shots I'm sure of the result. I literally don't care what the other person is doing, except for strategy. If they can't bank, I can feel safer if I fire a 2 way that if missed leaves them a tough bank.
Oh you mean dat zeal shìt. :D Try practicing in public.:LOL:
 
Yeah I don't either. I'm more talking about playing the table in predator mode. It's all a mental trick, but it helps me focus and only take shots I'm sure of the result. I literally don't care what the other person is doing, except for strategy. If they can't bank, I can feel safer if I fire a 2 way that if missed leaves them a tough bank.
The big picture is about being your best player at any particular moment. The reality of starting on a snooker table was that a “shot to nothing“ was part of the game. On a pool table the rotation games use a close cousin in strategy. A version comes into play late in some 8 ball games.
 
The big picture is about being your best player at any particular moment. The reality of starting on a snooker table was that a “shot to nothing“ was part of the game. On a pool table the rotation games use a close cousin in strategy. A version comes into play late in some 8 ball games.
An area of expertise often missed when we ask questions about which ball, pauses at the back or front of the stroke, etc., is the bigger topic of timing, tempo and rhythm. Snapshots miss the ongoing time dynamic. I’ve started to research several areas of expertise and recently found this abstract on tempo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274878/

For players who want to work on this aspect I recommend YouTube videos. Emulate the timing elements of several players. Find out which snooker, pool or billiard player has an overall stroke you would like to have, and that feels comfortable and gives results. I’ve had good success using music as a timing and tempo aid. Finding a chorus with a pause that can be synced with preliminary movements and when you plan to pause can work wonders for consistent cueing. Pause length can be couple to stroke length. A different soundtrack for different types of shots is another possibility. After all different length strokes have different speed and swing lengths. If I ever find my stroke has become a jab, I have a longer pause excerpt where I have a slower longer stroke that fits the pause.

The world snooker tour game stats include a ast column. It stands for average shot time. Someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan will usually have an ast around 13-17 sec. When he is in flow that drops dramatically. His world record maximum in around 5 and a half minutes, comprised of 36 pocketed balls. That’s less than 10 sec/shot. And, he had to wait for 15 blacks to be spotted.

One advantage of modern cell phones is the ability to video. Video every session. Find a small adjustable leg tripod for phones. After several sessions you should have sections during play where flow occurred. Get a sense of what your best play rhythm feels like, looks like and its inherent timing. Find your best you. Then build on that. Learn how to reset your inner shot timer. I mentioned music scores. CJ mentioned a metronome, but not his setting. Music has both right brain and brainwave activity linking both to subconscious triggering.

The abstract defines two types of tempo, one musical, the other emergent movement rhythm . They conclude that expertise involves both event (music) timing and emergent (situational athletic) timing.

Will update when I find anything more
 
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An area of expertise often missed when we ask questions about which ball, pauses at the back or front of the stroke, etc., is the bigger topic of timing, tempo and rhythm. Snapshots miss the ongoing time dynamic. I’ve started to research several areas of expertise and recently found this abstract on tempo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274878/

For players who want to work on this aspect I recommend YouTube videos. Emulate the timing elements of several players. Find out which snooker, pool or billiard player has an overall stroke you would like to have, and that feels comfortable and gives results. I’ve had good success using music as a timing and tempo aid. Finding a chorus with a pause that can be synced with preliminary movements and when you plan to pause can work wonders for consistent cueing. Pause length can be couple to stroke length. A different soundtrack for different types of shots is another possibility. After all different length strokes have different speed and swing lengths. If I ever find my stroke has become a jab, I have a longer pause excerpt where I have a slower longer stroke that fits the pause.

The world snooker tour game stats include a ast column. It stands for average shot time. Someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan will usually have an ast around 13-17 sec. When he is in flow that drops dramatically. His world record maximum in around 5 and a half minutes, comprised of 36 pocketed balls. That’s less than 10 sec/shot. And, he had to wait for 15 blacks to be spotted.

One advantage of modern cell phones is the ability to video. Video every session. Find a small adjustable leg tripod for phones. After several sessions you should have sections during play where flow occurred. Get a sense of what your best play rhythm feels like, looks like and its inherent timing. Find your best you. Then build on that. Learn how to reset your inner shot timer. I mentioned music scores. CJ mentioned a metronome, but not his setting. Music has both right brain and brainwave activity linking both to subconscious triggering.

The abstract defines two types of tempo, one musical, the other emergent movement rhythm . They conclude that expertise involves both event (music) timing and emergent (situational athletic) timing.

Will update when I find anything more
The following quote
“Expertise was also an important predictor of the type of timing mechanism that individuals employed for both discrete and continuous movements, which casts further doubt on the long-standing assumption that event and emergent timing mechanisms are strictly tied to discrete and continuous movement tasks, respectively.” from the abstract suggests that relying on a PSR alone is not a winning strategy. Ronnie O’Sullivan stated he only uses a routine when he needs it. Don’t fix what ain’t broken. That said, one of the most consistent players in the hall in my youth was a whistler. Music can silence the inner dialogue.
 
The following quote
“Expertise was also an important predictor of the type of timing mechanism that individuals employed for both discrete and continuous movements, which casts further doubt on the long-standing assumption that event and emergent timing mechanisms are strictly tied to discrete and continuous movement tasks, respectively.” from the abstract suggests that relying on a PSR alone is not a winning strategy. Ronnie O’Sullivan stated he only uses a routine when he needs it. Don’t fix what ain’t broken. That said, one of the most consistent players in the hall in my youth was a whistler. Music can silence the inner dialogue.
A PPR is preparation before competition as opposed to a PSR which is part of a performance routine.
 
A PPR is preparation before competition as opposed to a PSR which is part of a performance routine.
 
I must be in the wrong forum. I’ve seen more action in a covid closed pool hall.
 
I must be in the wrong forum. I’ve seen more action in a covid closed pool hall.
 

Cognitive processes during self-paced motor performance: An electroencephalographic profile of skilled marksmen.​

Does anyone think an abstract looking at this might offer pool players insight? Where are you looking for performance insights?
 

Cognitive processes during self-paced motor performance: An electroencephalographic profile of skilled marksmen.​

Does anyone think an abstract looking at this might offer pool players insight? Where are you looking for performance insights?

Here is one you have the whole paper not just the abstract.
 

Here is one you have the whole paper not just the abstract.

Each published study is just data until you mine it for the insights relevant to your performance matrix.
 
Trevor Silvester is a UK hypnotherapist, using Cognitive therapy and NLP techniques. He twigged me to an Eriksonian hypnotherapist named Stephen Wolinsky. He discovered that most of his clients didn’t need him to get them in a trance to fix their issues. Much to his surprise most were already stuck in a dysfunction trance and needed his help in getting out of trance. Silvester subscribes to Wolinsky’s insights. Viewing everyday activities as trance states, like Erickson believed, we see that we transition between them during the everyday flow of experience. Some states demand competence while others, especially our professions require mastery and excellence. As you have eloquently put, with stories acting as parables, that a good toolbox can have many origins. And, that tools can be useful across diverse disciplines from pool to running a business.

i was once approached about using pool as a platform for teaching many of the performance techniques and ideas I had developed along the way. Though the idea was intriguing, the tip ming was wrong. I’ve often wondered....

Silvester subtitled his book on Cognitive Hypnotherapy - What’s That About and How Can I Use It?

When someone has a trance state like a phobia, they never fail. Isn’t a preshot routine trying for that type of repetition? Phobics have lost their ability to choose. Now, that’s what I call consistency. This relates to the NLP tenet, that every behavior has a context in which it is appropriate. The two questions look at any perspective and see where it’s useful.

Thanks for help making this thread relevant.
Yes, everything we use in our behavior narrative can be used to positive achievements however, the deck is stacked against us!

For example, I used to try to hold the cue like other champions because I had trouble with long, draw shots. What I didn't take into account was my ability to "kill," of "stun" the cueball was a huge advantage as a result of how I held the cue.

We all need to write down our strengths and weaknesses as they are naturally and perhaps figure out a way to get the weaknesses to the strength side of the equation. Now I have figured out a way to capitalize on my natural grip and change it slightly to accommodate the shots that used to give me trouble.

"Strengthen your weaknesses, your strengths will take care of themselves!"

The Game is the Teacher
 
I must be in the wrong forum. I’ve seen more action in a covid closed pool hall.
Well, I'd say your thread is on the right track. Could have more participants, but hey, it has managed to stay on the first page since I've returned here. As an aside, you can also get too deep in the weeds. Like when I used to carry a hygrometer to my local hall to keep close tabs on the humidity in the joint. You thought about booking some time with Dr. Steve Peters?

Best wishes and hit 'em straight.

~Razor
 
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