Diamond arrived update

[realkingcobra]

So what percentage of Diamonds are flip down versus assembly?

Would I be correct in assuming that the install prices are less expensive for the flip downs, and that is represented in the price of buying a new Diamond?

No, you'd be wrong there. Assembled at the location or flipped down has nothing to do with the price of the table, but rather with the delivery and set up. What's harder to do, flip a table down in your garage, or have it taken apart, packed downstairs, or upstairs, then assembled again, with a 3 piece slate? Same table, different job.

 

[realkingcobra]

you pay for a brand new table. you should get a brand new table in perfect condition.
no cloth should have been put on before and changed out. then it isnt a brand new table.

a pool table is very easy to quality check it after it is finished. there arent hidden moving parts. if it is sent out with any deficiencies its totally on the company and their reputation. they have had to know and sent it out hoping it would be accepted and if not then make some token consideration. thats a bad business practice.
being dirt confims the lack of quality control and inspection before leaving the factory.

Holly shit man, what if the damn table was sent out to a distributor in perfect condition for inventory, had blue cloth on it....in inventory, but the customer wanted green, so the distributor replaced the NEW blue cloth with NEW green cloth....does that make the damn table used??????????

 

[realkingcobra]

Isn't there some type of middle ground between between the two? Mine seemed partially assembled. It was on a cart, but needed the legs AND rails to be installed.

Told you, you got a flip down Diamond, yes the rails had to be installed because it can't be shipped on a cart with wood built rails, the material is to soft to sit on the cart without showing signs of doing so. You got a basic roll in, bolt the legs on, flip down, remove the plywood slate support, replace with assembled rails....basic install. Now, if Paul and his son showed up at your house, rolled the cart with table on it into your garage, bolted the legs on, then started taking the table apart, packing every single piece of it into your house, 3 piece slate and all, THEN put it all back together again, THAT would be a different story....wouldn't it?? THEN if the table had dust all over the inside of the table to where it looked dirty as hell....who would YOU blame, the factory, OR the damn person who packed in every single piece of that dirty ass pool table, not bothering to clean ANYTHING off, then reassembled it just like it arrived????? Who's REALLY at fault here people???? Think about it, because THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!!!!

 

[maha]

at fault for defects is the manufacturer.
at fault for installation errors is the installers fault that the manufacturer let represent them.

unless the manufacturer had no contact with the installer as he was chosen by the customer.

any product sold as brand new that has defects should be replaced if chosen so by the customer if a satisfactory fix cant be agreed upon.

thats why the last payment anyway should be paid by credit card.

 

[maha]

and yes it isnt a new table if the cloth was ripped off and replaced with a different one unless it was the customer that chose that option. to do that and not inform the customer is deceitful. same as selling a refurbished table from a tournament and selling it as new and not informing the customer.

 

[realkingcobra]

and yes it isnt a new table if the cloth was ripped off and replaced with a different one unless it was the customer that chose that option. to do that and not inform the customer is deceitful. same as selling a refurbished table from a tournament and selling it as new and not informing the customer.

Well, you live in a delusional world then, but thats no surprise, as in topics like this, you're almost never right!!! What defects are you referring to exactly????

 

[realkingcobra]

and yes it isnt a new table if the cloth was ripped off and replaced with a different one unless it was the customer that chose that option. to do that and not inform the customer is deceitful. same as selling a refurbished table from a tournament and selling it as new and not informing the customer.

You're full of shit. How does a dealer changing the cloth reflect back on the manufacturer know-it-all?????

 

[realkingcobra]

and yes it isnt a new table if the cloth was ripped off and replaced with a different one unless it was the customer that chose that option. to do that and not inform the customer is deceitful. same as selling a refurbished table from a tournament and selling it as new and not informing the customer.

You DO know dealer's buy and sell pool tables as a business right??? If they f@%k up a new pool table delivering it, i bet you still believe the factory is at fault, get a life!!!

 

[WGDave]

No, you'd be wrong there. Assembled at the location or flipped down has nothing to do with the price of the table, but rather with the delivery and set up. What's harder to do, flip a table down in your garage, or have it taken apart, packed downstairs, or upstairs, then assembled again, with a 3 piece slate? Same table, different job.

My words were “install prices”, not the table cost.

To be more specific, what is the difference in cost between a flip down and full install where the table has to be completely built up?

 

[buckshotshoey]

and yes it isnt a new table if the cloth was ripped off and replaced with a different one unless it was the customer that chose that option. to do that and not inform the customer is deceitful. same as selling a refurbished table from a tournament and selling it as new and not informing the customer.

I strongly disagree. If it wasnt played upon, it's not used. Changing cloth is no different then adding dealer options to a car after leaving the factory. Now If it was a tournament used table, you would be correct. You assume the table was tournament used, but offered no proof other then the color option was changed. And if it was the dealer that changed the cloth, what does that have to do with Diamond?

 

[Nyquil]

Hey all this thread is getting a lot of traffic. I thought I would update everyone on what I know.

Issue #1 My light was misplaced used loaner was provided by installer for time being. Heath confirmed my light was given to another customer by installer in error. The installer was upfront with me that was likely his error and this was going to be sorted either way. We unfortunately ended with a lot more issues that seem to be installer related.

Issue #2 scratch marks on rails. Talked with Glen (RKC) and Heath so the phenolic resin PRC is infused into the wood. No two are alike and if I can't feel it that's just the PRC finish. This appears to be the case. Just know going in if your thinking of PRC finish that it may turn out like mine looks wise. It's hard stuff I can tell you that trade off is you can have wood looking scratches in it from what I have been told.

Issue #3 Very dirty internals. On a 3 piece there is gonna be some dust it is suppose to be thoroughly wiped down by installer prior to the slates going on and things getting drilled in.

Issue #4 Carpet stopper installed on wrong end and extra side gully shipped vs the needed left corner. Glen said these come fully installed so to speak and the installer breaks them down. He said the installer when putting my set up in the van grabbed a side from another table. Glen also said the carpet stopper being installed on the wrong end is something the installer does not diamond.

Issue #5 chairs came with exposed staples in cue holder areas rubber not glued down on one side of cue holder. Should have felt on them to protect our precious cues. Diamond QC issue should have never left the factory like that.

Issue #6 scratches around table most it appears are left over resin/glue residue that wasn't buffed out correctly. Glen or other installers can comment if that is to be done prior leaving factory or not with left over residue.

Heath has been in contact with me three times and they are working on getting me a new a light ASAP. They will need to crack the slates pull them off clean everything on the inside and install correct left corner pocket. I honestly would prefer a whole new table at this point due to how poor the install went and it pains me to no end to crack fresh slate but we will see what happens

I haven't been in contact with diamond directly at this time but I know Heath was this morning and RKC and I spoke over the phone before he called the diamond owner for a rundown based on how the install went after he heard it directly from me.

Lastly I am not going to name the installer. The guy has a family and I don't want to death nail the way he supports his family. I think he will be going thru the ringer from diamond themselves. I'll let diamond deal with the way he installed my table. From my understanding he has the skills he just didn't follow procedure on the smaller details with the install for reasons unknown to me at this time.

I'll keep everyone updated like I promised as we go.

Cheers
Brent

 

[realkingcobra]

I am on TEAM DIAMOND, I am always busy and I do well, its not about the money. OTHER DEALERS HAVE SAID THIS TO ME TOO. We all spend time and money building our business's. Dealing with a DROP SHIPPER is fine until its not, then the customer suffers and DIamond has to fix THEIR problems. Diamond Mechanics from the Factory are BUSY ALL THE TIME, they dont need this crap and at the end of the day: IT AFFECTS EVERY CUSTOMERS WAIT TIMES. Does that make sense now?

TFT

I don't give a damn who sells a Diamond pool table, drop shipped or not, the blame for a bad install goes directly on the person who set the table up, NOT the seller!!!! Even YOU sell tables in other peoples back yard, advertised doing so here on AZB....so don't complain about someone selling tables in YOUR back yard, if you were really on the ball, the buyer would have made contact with you in the first place!!! If you DON'T make that sale, then set the table up at your normal price for the seller if asked to do so, but to turn down this install because you didn't get the sale, is BS. If you support this industry, then support the customers, if not, because you want it all, good luck!

 

[GoldCrown]

Hey all this thread is getting a lot of traffic. I thought I would update everyone on what I know.

Issue #1 My light was misplaced used loaner was provided by installer for time being. Heath confirmed my light was given to another customer by installer in error. The installer was upfront with me that was likely his error and this was going to be sorted either way. We unfortunately ended with a lot more issues that seem to be installer related.

Issue #2 scratch marks on rails. Talked with Glen (RKC) and Heath so the phenolic resin PRC is infused into the wood. No two are alike and if I can't feel it that's just the PRC finish. This appears to be the case. Just know going in if your thinking of PRC finish that it may turn out like mine looks wise. It's hard stuff I can tell you that trade off is you can have wood looking scratches in it from what I have been told.

Issue #3 Very dirty internals. On a 3 piece there is gonna be some dust it is suppose to be thoroughly wiped down by installer prior to the slates going on and things getting drilled in.

Issue #4 Carpet stopper installed on wrong end and extra side gully shipped vs the needed left corner. Glen said these come fully installed so to speak and the installer breaks them down. He said the installer when putting my set up in the van grabbed a side from another table. Glen also said the carpet stopper being installed on the wrong end is something the installer does not diamond.

Issue #5 chairs came with exposed staples in cue holder areas rubber not glued down on one side of cue holder. Should have felt on them to protect our precious cues. Diamond QC issue should have never left the factory like that.

Issue #6 scratches around table most it appears are left over resin/glue residue that wasn't buffed out correctly. Glen or other installers can comment if that is to be done prior leaving factory or not with left over residue.

Heath has been in contact with me three times and they are working on getting me a new a light ASAP. They will need to crack the slates pull them off clean everything on the inside and install correct left corner pocket. I honestly would prefer a whole new table at this point due to how poor the install went and it pains me to no end to crack fresh slate but we will see what happens

I haven't been in contact with diamond directly at this time but I know Heath was this morning and RKC and I spoke over the phone before he called the diamond owner for a rundown based on how the install went after he heard it directly from me.

Lastly I am not going to name the installer. The guy has a family and I don't want to death nail the way he supports his family. I think he will be going thru the ringer from diamond themselves. I'll let diamond deal with the way he installed my table. From my understanding he has the skills he just didn't follow procedure on the smaller details with the install for reasons unknown to me at this time.

I'll keep everyone updated like I promised as we go.

Cheers
Brent

Request a new table. You have a reasonable right to get one. Talk to Heath.

 

[ThinSlice]

10 grand, in advance, sight unseen and are not supposed to have a question or two if it isn't right? what is your point. "Oh well, it's going to get scratched up anyway"? I don't think so. I have owned a few new cars and I don't expect them to arrive with dings and scratches.

Yup, then you drive it and a rock flys up and dings the hood and cracks the windshield. So do you want a new car after that? Wouldn’t sweat it enough to post on the forums. That’s what I am saying. They are meant to be played and if a ball flys up and hits the rail and puts the slightest dent it shouldn’t make you cry. It’s a pool table. It’s going to get beat. Trust me it will. If if doesn’t then it’s not getting played.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 

[realkingcobra]

My words were “install prices”, not the table cost.

To be more specific, what is the difference in cost between a flip down and full install where the table has to be completely built up?

Well then, are we talking upstairs, downstairs, can't park within 3 blocks, pay parking....a lot of things have to be factored into that delivery and set up, including tolls if they apply, so can you give some specifics??? Are you seeing my point?

 

[Nyquil]

Forgot to mention the diamond chairs are really nice. Not many reviews on them but they are built like tanks. The accesory tray is super convient. The staple issue will be a very minor repair. I am just watching where I place my cues for the time being. So just throwing that out there I am very glad I bought them. If have been on the fence I wouldn't hesitate to buy a set. They also look great.

 

[realkingcobra]

My words were “install prices”, not the table cost.

To be more specific, what is the difference in cost between a flip down and full install where the table has to be completely built up?

I've done $250-$2500 installs, they're all depending on what I have to go through to complete the job!

 

[realkingcobra]

Request a new table. You have a reasonable right to get one. Talk to Heath.

That's on the dealer, not Diamond!!

 

[easy-e]

Told you, you got a flip down Diamond, yes the rails had to be installed because it can't be shipped on a cart with wood built rails, the material is to soft to sit on the cart without showing signs of doing so. You got a basic roll in, bolt the legs on, flip down, remove the plywood slate support, replace with assembled rails....basic install. Now, if Paul and his son showed up at your house, rolled the cart with table on it into your garage, bolted the legs on, then started taking the table apart, packing every single piece of it into your house, 3 piece slate and all, THEN put it all back together again, THAT would be a different story....wouldn't it?? THEN if the table had dust all over the inside of the table to where it looked dirty as hell....who would YOU blame, the factory, OR the damn person who packed in every single piece of that dirty ass pool table, not bothering to clean ANYTHING off, then reassembled it just like it arrived????? Who's REALLY at fault here people???? Think about it, because THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!!!!

WTF are you talking about? I never blamed anyone for anything. I’m the only happy MF’er in this thread! Have a drink buddy.

 

[realkingcobra]

Request a new table. You have a reasonable right to get one. Talk to Heath.

A year or so ago, I stopped by a customers home in Baker City, OR on my way from Portland to Spokane, WA.

The customer asked Chad at Diamond if he could please send someone to take a look at his 8ft ProAm, because the slates kept coming apart, and the table wasn't level, so my reason for checking in with the customer was purely out of curiosity. Once I started looking at his table, I was just blown away with everything done WRONG! And the dealer even told the customer after their 3rd time coming back out to fix the slates, they were going to have to start charging him a service call fee, because they couldn't afford to keep coming back for free. Customer asked why the slates kept coming apart in the first place, the response he was given was its just the way the Diamonds are built. Well, now, pissed off, I got a hotel room, stayed the night, and the next morning, went back to the customers home, and completely disassembled the table, every part and piece. I noticed all the missing hardware, the fact that the slates were sitting on all the levelers, which they cut off because they couldn't put the rails on with them sticking out in the way. All the parts they didn't bother installing on the table, I went out and bought, modified aluminum L channel to mount in place of the missing L channel braces, even recovered and leveled the table with the new cloth the customer had bought and was holding, for the slightest chance I'd stop by and fix his table. The customer paid for 3 days of my hotel bill, of which I told him to bill the distributor for reimbursement. He asked me what he owed me, to which I replied nothing, I'll get my pay with satisfaction. He asked me what I meant by that, to which I told him I was going to have the factory, CHAD fire this distributor ship, because not once did they call in for advice, not once did they make contact with me, and because they did the most pisspoor job of setting up a Diamond table I've ever seen in all the years I've been working with Diamond! They no longer sell Diamond tables, and the customer loves his Diamond 8ft ProAm and dinner is on him if I'm ever back in his neck of the woods again.

The morel of this story is this, Diamond may be responsible for some things that they do, and if given notice, WILL bend over backwards to make things right, BUT, Diamond is NOT responsible for anything as far as I'm concerned once that pool table gets into the hands of a dealer, or installer, EVEN though they STILL try and make the customer happy do to NO fault of their OWN!!!!!