Why would certain players(myself included) play much better on a Diamond bar box vs a Valley bar box? I'm talking about standard set ups, no alterations to the Valley. You could go as far as comparing a Valley with ridgeback rails to a standard Diamond bar box....Just wanting some opinions on why it's so much different. Curious to hear some opinions.
Diamond Bar Box vs Valley bar box
- Thread starter StuartTKelley
- Start date
It is because Diamond tables play with much more consistency and the valleys do not, even with the ridgeback rails. I know, I've got one of each in my basement and I upgraded the valley with the Ridgeback rails (which are awesome and I heartily recommend, by the way). Many valleys are just old and beat down in many/most locations and they just have to many bad rolls due to bowed/sanded/whatever else slate, poor cloth conditions, poor balls, improper rail height, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. Anything that is inconsistent has a tendency to shark players, even good/great ones.
For instance, one can and should play a finesse game on proper equipment. In such an environment, you can slow roll balls and have them roll straight. Not so on many of these valley/other bar tables. The result is sharking the shooter because they can't play their normal game. To avoid such a poor result in the bars with sub-par equipment, IMO, you should put a little more "pepper" on your shots and avoid slow rolls almost at all costs. Just my opinion of course.
For instance, one can and should play a finesse game on proper equipment. In such an environment, you can slow roll balls and have them roll straight. Not so on many of these valley/other bar tables. The result is sharking the shooter because they can't play their normal game. To avoid such a poor result in the bars with sub-par equipment, IMO, you should put a little more "pepper" on your shots and avoid slow rolls almost at all costs. Just my opinion of course.
I think the slow-rolling problem on the Valley table is due mostly to the fact that they traditionally use a woolen cloth (one that causes roll-offs on slow rolling balls), whereas Diamond tables use Simonis cloth (one that allows the balls to roll straight). That's where the consistency/inconsistencies mostly come from. The other difference is the cut of the pockets. The Diamond pockets are tougher (they force you to bear down and shoot straighter).
Roger
Roger
It's because they're different tables. :-D
I've played on a Diamond about 3 times and i noticed a couple of things , one may not be noticeable to others . The Diamond surface sets up a little higher so how you see the ball is a little different , i'm 5'9 . I think the rails on Diamonds cause the balls to separate more than Valley's so you get less difficult clusters to break out and avoid.
Don't forget the Cue ball
The most noticeable difference is the cue ball. Most Diamonds use the red circle - which is a high quality product.
Valley tables have to use a magnetic ball - and by design, the cue ball has been altered. This has a tendency to cause the ball to be off-balance.
When slow rolling, it has a tendency to roll off.
So with a valley table, you have to expect odd cue ball rolls.
Mark Griffin
The most noticeable difference is the cue ball. Most Diamonds use the red circle - which is a high quality product.
Valley tables have to use a magnetic ball - and by design, the cue ball has been altered. This has a tendency to cause the ball to be off-balance.
When slow rolling, it has a tendency to roll off.
So with a valley table, you have to expect odd cue ball rolls.
Mark Griffin
Valley rails are bolted through the sides of the cabinet not to the slate, 7ft Diamond rails bolt through the slate - Just like a 9ft Diamond or a Gold Crown. Diamond rails are also much thicker and wider adding strength and allowing the balls to rebound truly.
Valley slate sits (not bolted down) on tiny ledges extending from the cabinet and on two under designed cross stretchers that are weak and allow the slate to sag. Most valleys I have seen have around .030" sag in the slate. This sag is one reason that causes slow rolling balls on a valley to roll off. 7ft Diamonds have a strong frame capable of supporting the weight without sagging - Just like a 9ft Diamond or a Gold Crown
Valley slate sits (not bolted down) on tiny ledges extending from the cabinet and on two under designed cross stretchers that are weak and allow the slate to sag. Most valleys I have seen have around .030" sag in the slate. This sag is one reason that causes slow rolling balls on a valley to roll off. 7ft Diamonds have a strong frame capable of supporting the weight without sagging - Just like a 9ft Diamond or a Gold Crown
Sometime ago there was a thread about an aramith purple logo cue ball for valley bar boxes, but haven't heard anything in a while. I thought this would make a big difference in the way valley tables played. Are they out there?
All great responses so far guys. Very interesting to hear the technical differences for sure. I always play better on a Diamond but wanted to know more about the things mentioned above. Thanks. Anything more that can be added would be great to hear.
Ben, are you going to do anything productive today? LOL
I'll be playing eight ball on some valleys later, does this count?
Stu,
Other than the difference in rail rubber, small Diamond tables also have a slate roughly twIce as thick as a Valley. Also add in the shear number of leveling adjustments available on a small Diamond. Also consider the playing surface height of a Diamond versus a Valley.
Most of the year, I play on Valley Cougars with Simonis 860 cloth. When in Vegas, it's Diamonds with 860. Both setups use red dot cue balls. Played a guy in the ACS finals who obviously played on Valley's with a weighted / magnetic cue ball much more than me. Honestly could not do things with the cue ball I watched him do. On the Diamond's with a red dot at BCAPL, he struggled. Actually, so did I
!Understand more and more just how great Keith, Larry, Dave and a few others must have been with the HUGE rock.
Lyn
Banks
Banned
What he said!
Most of the year, I play on Valley Cougars with Simonis 860 cloth. When in Vegas, it's Diamonds with 860. Both setups use red dot cue balls. Played a guy in the ACS finals who obviously played on Valley's with a weighted / magnetic cue ball much more than me. Honestly could not do things with the cue ball I watched him do. On the Diamond's with a red dot at BCAPL, he struggled. Actually, so did I
I normally play on the same, but without the Simonis. On a Diamond, you have to have a touch going unless you're just killing it. On Valleys, you have to muscle the CB around more. The difference in those speeds/rails make a huge change to how the ball reacts when getting leaves.
I like Diamonds because they're much more consistent from one to the next, but I've spent so much time on Valleys that I'm more accustomed to that style of play. Heavy ball is one style again and the logo/light ball is a bit closer to the red circle.
Fustercluck
New member
Why are the rails on a Diamond table SOOOOO bouncy? Most that Ive played on, the ball bounces off the rail faster than when it hit it..
Diamond vs Valley
The Diamond tables are much faster and require less speed and stroke to get around the table and that's why you play better on a Diamond. On any kind of table the harder you hit the cue ball the harder it is to hit it exactly where you are aiming and control the speed of the shot.
The Diamond tables are much faster and require less speed and stroke to get around the table and that's why you play better on a Diamond. On any kind of table the harder you hit the cue ball the harder it is to hit it exactly where you are aiming and control the speed of the shot.
Number one complaint of any Diamond table, for years now.