Diamond could not level? Who is the best slate whisper

Now I wonder about why this thread was started in the first place, with no response from the OP!

After all, he was asking for help, and said Diamond was going to send someone out again, but in all fairness, DIAMOND had NO idea whatsoever about this situation because they were NOT involved at all. So, why no more conversations from the OP?
 
What people fail to understand is that there are a few people out here working in this industry that rather than admit their own inadequacies, would rather blame Simonis changing their cloth weave because they get stretch shadows in the rail cloth and bed cloth, so it MUST be the cloth, can't be them, because they've been working on pool tables for over 10, 15, or 20+ years. No different than leveling slates, it can't be their fault they can't get the slates level, or match the seams perfectly, it HAS to be the slate or the table being built wrong, because they KNOW what they're doing!

Simonis and Diamond both forward those calls to me, because they can't possibly know as much as the mechanic's do, they just sell the product.
But here's the problem, when someone else can come behind them and fix, or install what ever it was that they said wasn't right, and make it right, what does that say about their skills, or complaints? Inexperienced, when they see themselves as Professionals???
 
realkingcobra said:
What people fail to understand is that there are a few people out here working in this industry that rather than admit their own inadequacies, would rather blame Simonis changing their cloth weave because they get stretch shadows in the rail cloth and bed cloth, so it MUST be the cloth, can't be them, because they've been working on pool tables for over 10, 15, or 20+ years. No different than leveling slates, it can't be their fault they can't get the slates level, or match the seams perfectly, it HAS to be the slate or the table being built wrong, because they KNOW what they're doing!

Simonis and Diamond both forward those calls to me, because they can't possibly know as much as the mechanic's do, they just sell the product.
But here's the problem, when someone else can come behind them and fix, or install what ever it was that they said wasn't right, and make it right, what does that say about their skills, or complaints? Inexperienced, when they see themselves as Professionals???
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There are FB groups full of people with this attitude.
 
bradsh98 said:
There are FB groups full of people with this attitude.
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I see you giving them REAL SOLID FACTS !!! I dont post much on FB Inter mechs forum. It interesting to see how much different those people who work on tables are vs the people I have found here. Night and day difference.

TFT
 
bradsh98 said:
There are FB groups full of people with this attitude.
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Also all this bent cupped an crowned slate???? Really, its just acceptable?? I dont have seem to have the same issues with most of the Brunswick Slate I work with. I spend 3-4 times the amount of time on seamin diamond 3 piece slate, vs brunswicks.

TFT
 
bradsh98 said:
There are FB groups full of people with this attitude.
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Seriously, why would someone come on here with a request for help, saying Diamond this, and Diamond that, and someone else bashes Diamond, when Diamond had nothing to do with this customer, nor had any phone calls from him. This is a distributor problem, and not a Diamond problem.

The clue was, as I already pointed out, the table was fine, and level, from 2020 until this year, when he had it recovered, THEN it developed the level problems!

Need to read the whole story the OP posted, not just to where he mentioned Diamond, then automatically assume they did something wrong!!
 
trentfromtoledo said:
Also all this bent cupped an crowned slate???? Really, its just acceptable?? I dont have seem to have the same issues with most of the Brunswick Slate I work with. I spend 3-4 times the amount of time on seamin diamond 3 piece slate, vs brunswicks.

TFT
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It's really simple, you have to make the 3 piece slate into a 1 piece. Superglue is allowed.
 
boogieman said:
It's really simple, you have to make the 3 piece slate into a 1 piece. Superglue is allowed.
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why dont i have to do this normally with most brunswick slate? i know why!! one company has priority and pays for the good flat stuff and the other?? well i cant say that. nuff said.

tft
 
trentfromtoledo said:
I have installed plenty of them, doesnt mean its supposed to be like that. :) You aint adding nothing here sir.

TFT
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Well, it's not ideal but a real mech knows the drill. You can level it. Sure, it's not ideal but you got it.

trentfromtoledo said:
why dont i have to do this normally with most brunswick slate? i know why!! one company has priority and pays for the good flat stuff and the other?? well i cant say that. nuff said.

tft
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What's the difference. Everyone likes a "tester!" ;)
🤣
 
boogieman said:
Well, it's not ideal but a real mech knows the drill. You can level it. Sure, it's not ideal but you got it.


What's the difference. Everyone likes a "tester!" ;)
🤣
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i did get all those hard lesssons. doesnt mean its RIGHT. I dont buy a new car and have to do a bunch of modifications on it to make it work right. End of story :) I dont have ANY plans to ever buy a 3 piece Diamond ever again. I swore them off and only commercial 1 piece tables and pool rooms only.

TFT
 
realkingcobra said:
Seriously, why would someone come on here with a request for help, saying Diamond this, and Diamond that, and someone else bashes Diamond, when Diamond had nothing to do with this customer, nor had any phone calls from him. This is a distributor problem, and not a Diamond problem.

The clue was, as I already pointed out, the table was fine, and level, from 2020 until this year, when he had it recovered, THEN it developed the level problems!

Need to read the whole story the OP posted, not just to where he mentioned Diamond, then automatically assume they did something wrong!!
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I understand your beef but it is most likely confusion on the customer's part. Most customers don't understand the dealer model. They bought a Diamond, the people they dealt with had Diamond business cards, the truck had the Diamond logo on it as did the shirts of the guys installing it. To them, they bought a Diamond table from Diamond so it must be Diamond's fault when something goes wrong. I dealt with the same thing almost daily in my 18 years dealing with the indirect dealer channel of DIRECTV and AT&T.
 
rexus31 said:
I understand your beef but it is most likely confusion on the customer's part. Most customers don't understand the dealer model. They bought a Diamond, the people they dealt with had Diamond business cards, the truck had the Diamond logo on it as did the shirts of the guys installing it. To them, they bought a Diamond table from Diamond so it must be Diamond's fault when something goes wrong. I dealt with the same thing almost daily in my 18 years dealing with the indirect dealer channel of DIRECTV and AT&T.
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I have done a large number of 3 piece slate Diamonds and the slate was always SHIT..... I should not have to spend hours seaming& gluing up bent , I am not talkin a lil off, like a puzzle: garbage slate. Ratchet straps & bottlejacks, screwing one side down to the deck so i could line up. having to drill holes in slate onsite is embarassing. Especially with a customer that has had plenty of tables and has never seeen any of this stuff done. I deal with a lot of intelligent people who see the flaws and the hardest part I cannot make up a bunch of lies like all the 90% of the rest of the guys do, I am done with all that stuff. Thanks be to god.

TRENT FROM TOLEDO
 
Thank God Diamond has finally listened to me and fired all the hacks working for them!! Shane Johnson is just one example, but there's others too. And like usual, once they've been fired they all want to make it look like they quite, but thats just to keep from being embarrassed, when it's their own fault they got fired!

I keep telling Chad, they can't work with these hacks, its a bad look for Diamond to hire hacks that would blame them instead of taking responsibility for there own inadequacies, it's not worth it.

I think once I get moved to Boise, I'm going to consider opening a training center for qualified students who want to be Professional table mechanic's.
 
TxBullDog said:
Diamond table help looking for who is the best to level and figure this out! I have a nine foot pro am. It was installed new by Diamond in 2020. Diamond are the only people who have touched it. I recently got the cloth replaced by Diamond and it has never rolled straight since…
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Did ANYONE pay attention to the OPs opening statement??

I'm again questioning Diamond Billiards part in this, as well as the SLATE being the issue!!!

For 2 YEARS it was level, and played great, no problems reported!

Then the OP has the table recovered, by "DIAMOND MECHANICS" and all hell breaks loose! Diamond dealers like to refer to themselves as Diamond mechanics, some even post their Diamond business card here on AZB in their signature line.

Does that make them FACTORY MECHANICS?
No, it don't, it just gives them a card with a promo code on it for a sales commission if someone gives that promo number to the sales department at Diamond.

Diamond has installers, thats what they do, deliver and install pool tables.

I am the ONLY TABLE MECHANIC that works with, not for, Diamond. Just like I represent Iwan Simonis cloth as THEIR TABLE MECHANIC!

Neither of them can win an argument over something that a ao called table mechanic calls them up to complain about, because they don't directly work on pool tables, and the caller knows that, SO, I get those calls forwarded to me, and I address them, because I CAN correct the problem, because I DO SPEAK MECHANIC!!!

So, the morel of the story here is before anyone goes pointing the finger of blame, make sure your aware of ALL THE FACTS before you start slaming a business, you might start looking like an idiot otherwise when the FACTS do come out!!!
 
trentfromtoledo said:
why dont i have to do this normally with most brunswick slate? i know why!! one company has priority and pays for the good flat stuff and the other?? well i cant say that. nuff said.

tft
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My decades old GC2 is still dead level.
Even though I stand on it often to fix the ceiling fan and lights.
I wonder why there are this leveling problems with other tables.
 
realkingcobra said:
Thank God Diamond has finally listened to me and fired all the hacks working for them!! Shane Johnson is just one example, but there's others too. And like usual, once they've been fired they all want to make it look like they quite, but thats just to keep from being embarrassed, when it's their own fault they got fired!

I keep telling Chad, they can't work with these hacks, its a bad look for Diamond to hire hacks that would blame them instead of taking responsibility for there own inadequacies, it's not worth it.

I think once I get moved to Boise, I'm going to consider opening a training center for qualified students who want to be Professional table mechanic's.
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Why doesn't Diamond (by Diamond I guess I mean you) train them (by train I mean teach them how they are going to perform these operations if they would like to maintain their term of employment) to at least do set up and install cloth properly before turning them loose on customer tables??
 
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fastone371 said:
Why doesn't Diamond (by Diamond I guess I mean you) train them (by train I mean teach them how they are going to perform these operations if they would like to maintain their term of employment) to at least do set up and install cloth properly before turning them loose o customer tables??
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I won't live long enough!
 
realkingcobra said:
I won't live long enough!
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Funny, the OP never did respond to my offer to help, but I did get a call from another customer, here's his response;

Nice work, sir



From: Michael Hollis <Michael@argcorporation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 2:23 PM
To: Aaron Berger <aaron@diamondbilliards.com>
Subject: Glen Hancock



Hey Aaron-



Just wanted to pass something along. I called Diamond about a week ago about my table being out of level. Because you weren’t available at the time, I believe I was passed on to Ray(?). Anyways, someone there gave me Glen Hancock’s number.



I called Glen to tell him that I had ordered a Starrett level and was attempting to level the table myself. No questions. No chest banging. He just jumped right in and we got to work. He started by helping me realize that my level needed to be recalibrated and talked me through that process. He then spent HOURS with me walking through the entire process. Two things that impressed me about Glen. One, he knows his shit! It was as if he were standing over my shoulder and seeing what I was seeing. He could also anticipate to a 1/10th of an inch how one adjustment at one side of the table was gonna effect other measurements on the other side of the table. Truly remarkable. Even more impressive though was that he understood I was a novice at leveling. He had an UNBELIEVABLE amount of patience with me. He didn’t/wouldn’t stop until the job was done right.



Professionalism like that is rarely seen in today’s day and age. I just wanted to pass along to you and the powers to be at Diamond that you are being very well represented by Glen Hancock.



Best,



Michael Hollis
 
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