Thank you sir! A nice light makes a difference.
Diamond Light price
- Thread starter Schon shooter
- Start date
Thank you sir! A nice light makes a difference.
I had a 50x100 Diamond light for sale here and got one offer. Maybe people just don't want them anymore due to their size.
Diamond does still make the large light if it's requested though. I know this because I spoke with Brian Miller last week about them.
Gary
Actually there are many people looking for those larger lights. I personally don't believe there is a light that cast less shadows on a table than the older big foot Diamonds. The problem is that they are so big that you better be in a major city (or close to one) if you want to sell it for what it's worth because the shipping on those things is so high that this is what kills the deal. Believe me. I ran across many of the big Diamonds and Gold Crowns on both AZB and eBay. Every one was at least 800-1000 miles (or farther) and the shipping was often as much as the light cost. Also most sellers would advertise "local pickup only" because they didn't want to hassle with shipping those albatross sized lights. Then there is the trust issue on "sight unseen" shipping of something that large. How do you get you're money back on a bad deal?
Another problem is that generally the 100 x 50 Diamond needs to be hung higher than most other lights so with an 8' ceiling it will about mount flush. I have a 9' ceiling in my pool room which works much better.
I've seen "want to buy" adds on Craigslist many times around here looking for the 100 x 50 Diamonds.
It's usually being in the right place at the right time for both buyer and seller. Of course I've seen some banged up lights advertised here and eBay that I wouldn't touch. Hell... the right person will drive over 100 miles for a big format Diamond but they can't watch the ads 24-7.
I hope you got a fair price for yours because the quality of the light is top shelf if it's not banged up or anything. I bet I saw your post... but Eastern Kentucky is a little bit farther than I want to drive to pick one up (although I almost drove 600 miles for a Gold Crown once).
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Yeah I was very lucky, the light was north of Chicago, about 1 1/2 hours south of me, the only way it could have worked better was if it was at my neighbors house. I was a bit surprised to find out it would not fit in the back of a long wheelbase Town & Country with rear seats removed. We had to tip it in its side and slide it up between the front seats to close the tailgate. I think the gentleman may have more left yet if anyone is looking. I suppose that maybe I shouldnt mention that I bought the privately owned GCII, never in a pool hall and in extremely nice condition for $300.00. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, it also came with a floor standing double sided Brunswick cue stand like they had in the pool halls, and a Hoppe Titlist to boot!! I think you can see the cue rack in my avatar, the side against the wall is identical to the side showing.
Diamond makes a good light, and so does Brunswick, but there's no getting around their size. Meanwhile Here's a nice pic of one of my LED panels installed directly into the owner's ceiling. That give him 100% free air space over the table.
Here's a pic of how the light covers the table. You can see how even it is.
This lighting solution is $400 all in, and you get no heat, no UV rays, and a pure daylight coloured light. They also last 50,000 hours without needing any maintenance or repair, which for a home table is essentially lifetime. Just wire and hang it and then forget about it.
Here's a pic of how the light covers the table. You can see how even it is.
This lighting solution is $400 all in, and you get no heat, no UV rays, and a pure daylight coloured light. They also last 50,000 hours without needing any maintenance or repair, which for a home table is essentially lifetime. Just wire and hang it and then forget about it.
I'll wait for it because...
I'm not knocking people who use LED panels as billiard lights... if that's what floats your boat.
First off the room is way too illuminated with just a flat panel LED. In the "perfect" billiard room environment the light focus is on the playing surface only while minimizing as much ambient light as possible from the rest of the room.
Then there is that obvious and unavoidable glare. The last thing that I want after I've just jawed a pocket followed by looking up at the ceiling in disbelief... is to get further punished from spots in my eyes because I just stared into that big bright square.
I see some pretty hard and solid shadows on the backside of that rack. The reason is likely due to the laws of physics vs. the way light of any kind travels in a single direction unless reflected or refracted. That light would have to be the size of the playing surface to avoid back shadows (just being hung as it is).
Then lets talk about light diffusion (of which it's obvious with this light that there is none). Using the metal light diffusers that you see in the GC and Diamond lights, the light is "refracted" in as many directions as possible. Any shadowing that is there is quite soft to both a camera or to the human eye. If you try to look for shadowing under a properly fitted Diamond light... all you will find is a very soft change in hue under the ball. As well if someone was more OCD about their lighting than I am and was noticing those soft and all but invisible shadows, they would notice that on the big Diamonds (because they span over the entire playing surface)... the change in hue will always be directly under the ball... not cast to one side or the other because of an undersized overhead light. With the hard shadows like I am seeing here in your photos... it could be distracting to some players until they get used to it.
Personally I find LCD light panels to be impracticable at this point in time for use as a billiard table light not just for the above mentioned reasons but also because of the history of technology. As the market grows with LCD and LED lighting over the next several years these lights will become more advanced as they decrease in price. That light today at $400 will be $100 in just a few years... the technology is still too new. Like when LCD tv's dropped from $4000 to $1000 in such a short period. As the price dropped the screen sizes got even larger and the refresh rates went from 60Hz to 120Hz then to 240Hz, became smart tv's (and on and on and on). Computers were the same way. When 64 bit computers and operating systems first started being marketed they were very pricey. As well it was years before software companies started producing any programs for them. By the time that software finally caught up to the technology... the computer systems were about 1/4 of their entry level cost.
What I'm saying is that to my knowledge there has yet to be a flat panel LED light that has been designed for use over a pool table. When the cost of LED lighting drops to a more affordable level soon (and it will), I will gut my Diamond box and replace the light fixtures inside with LED panels or bypass the ballast and use equivalent replacement tubes.
But at $400 per panel... the 4 globe light that I have used for the past 2 years with CFL bulbs illuminates my table (in my opinion) just as well as this flat panel. However it doesn't overpower the rest of the room and is much more esthetically pleasing to look at... and I bought it new (on sale) for $100 when I bought my table.
This is my table now... in a couple of weeks (after I get the Diamond hung and adjusted properly) I'll be glad to show anybody the before and after pictures of the lighting and shadowing with and without the Diamond. Ask anyone who has metallic light diffusers over their table if they have hard shadow issues... I'm betting that you'll be hard put to find anyone who will complain.
I'm not knocking people who use LED panels as billiard lights... if that's what floats your boat.
First off the room is way too illuminated with just a flat panel LED. In the "perfect" billiard room environment the light focus is on the playing surface only while minimizing as much ambient light as possible from the rest of the room.
Then there is that obvious and unavoidable glare. The last thing that I want after I've just jawed a pocket followed by looking up at the ceiling in disbelief... is to get further punished from spots in my eyes because I just stared into that big bright square.
I see some pretty hard and solid shadows on the backside of that rack. The reason is likely due to the laws of physics vs. the way light of any kind travels in a single direction unless reflected or refracted. That light would have to be the size of the playing surface to avoid back shadows (just being hung as it is).
Then lets talk about light diffusion (of which it's obvious with this light that there is none). Using the metal light diffusers that you see in the GC and Diamond lights, the light is "refracted" in as many directions as possible. Any shadowing that is there is quite soft to both a camera or to the human eye. If you try to look for shadowing under a properly fitted Diamond light... all you will find is a very soft change in hue under the ball. As well if someone was more OCD about their lighting than I am and was noticing those soft and all but invisible shadows, they would notice that on the big Diamonds (because they span over the entire playing surface)... the change in hue will always be directly under the ball... not cast to one side or the other because of an undersized overhead light. With the hard shadows like I am seeing here in your photos... it could be distracting to some players until they get used to it.
Personally I find LCD light panels to be impracticable at this point in time for use as a billiard table light not just for the above mentioned reasons but also because of the history of technology. As the market grows with LCD and LED lighting over the next several years these lights will become more advanced as they decrease in price. That light today at $400 will be $100 in just a few years... the technology is still too new. Like when LCD tv's dropped from $4000 to $1000 in such a short period. As the price dropped the screen sizes got even larger and the refresh rates went from 60Hz to 120Hz then to 240Hz, became smart tv's (and on and on and on). Computers were the same way. When 64 bit computers and operating systems first started being marketed they were very pricey. As well it was years before software companies started producing any programs for them. By the time that software finally caught up to the technology... the computer systems were about 1/4 of their entry level cost.
What I'm saying is that to my knowledge there has yet to be a flat panel LED light that has been designed for use over a pool table. When the cost of LED lighting drops to a more affordable level soon (and it will), I will gut my Diamond box and replace the light fixtures inside with LED panels or bypass the ballast and use equivalent replacement tubes.
But at $400 per panel... the 4 globe light that I have used for the past 2 years with CFL bulbs illuminates my table (in my opinion) just as well as this flat panel. However it doesn't overpower the rest of the room and is much more esthetically pleasing to look at... and I bought it new (on sale) for $100 when I bought my table.
This is my table now... in a couple of weeks (after I get the Diamond hung and adjusted properly) I'll be glad to show anybody the before and after pictures of the lighting and shadowing with and without the Diamond. Ask anyone who has metallic light diffusers over their table if they have hard shadow issues... I'm betting that you'll be hard put to find anyone who will complain.
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I agree. The LED panels alone will not provide the correct effect for table lighting. The light must still be diffused. Here's a pic of the light my light puts off. I may switch the internals to LED when they become more affordable.
I think I know of the light that you bought. If it's the ones that I'm thinking, the guy was trying to sell about 18 of them together on eBay about a year or so ago. Then he started advertising here on AZB and advertised a per light price... but he would not ship.If he had the cost would have put it out of my range. Also if this is where you got yours, you got to hand pick from what was there.
Definable worth a 1 1/2 hour drive... and the deal on your table... again :thumbup:
I remember following the build on your light here on AZB when you were constructing it. To say that I was impressed with your design abilities is an understatement. You put a signature all your own on that light and you couldn't find one that would match your table better than the one you built.
As for the LED lighting... if someone is just going to hang a bright light over their table without any design toward what the light is being used for... just go to HD or Lowe's and $100 (or less) will fix them right up.
Again, I can't complement you enough on your finished product. I wanted to build my own (and have designed several myself over the past few years) but when we moved 7 years ago I lost my woodworking space (my garage) so I had to sell off a lot of my equipment. I still have enough equipment to effectively build one... but not the shelter to do it under.
Not going to argue things that are personal preference, but the thing to bear in mind with a diffusing agent is that it's absorbing a great deal of your light. In the case of the reflective grids that's close to 40-45% of the total light output of your bulbs. That's a large number.
Also consider that your standard fluorescents are emitting light in 360 degrees, and then the interior of the fixture is reflecting that light that's aimed away from the table back towards the playing surface. However, and even larger percentage of that light is absorbed by the fixture. This is a waste, and with the LED panels fully 100% of the light output is directed straight down at your playing surface. And if you were worried about diffusing you could attach a reflective grid to each one and still increase the total light on your table by a significant factor.
The other thing to bear in mind is flicker, which is inherent in fluorescents. It happens because the ballast is sending electricity into the bulb in really quick intervals to excite the gases inside and produce light. You don't actually see this with your eyes, but your brain does. And it's why people who spend a lot of time under fluorescents report mental fatigue and eye strain, and why a lot of us have a bit of a headache after a really long session of pool. With LED this is also completely eliminated.
Also consider that your standard fluorescents are emitting light in 360 degrees, and then the interior of the fixture is reflecting that light that's aimed away from the table back towards the playing surface. However, and even larger percentage of that light is absorbed by the fixture. This is a waste, and with the LED panels fully 100% of the light output is directed straight down at your playing surface. And if you were worried about diffusing you could attach a reflective grid to each one and still increase the total light on your table by a significant factor.
The other thing to bear in mind is flicker, which is inherent in fluorescents. It happens because the ballast is sending electricity into the bulb in really quick intervals to excite the gases inside and produce light. You don't actually see this with your eyes, but your brain does. And it's why people who spend a lot of time under fluorescents report mental fatigue and eye strain, and why a lot of us have a bit of a headache after a really long session of pool. With LED this is also completely eliminated.
Thanks! I appreciate the compliments!
Based on the pic of the LED light and physics, this cannot be accurate. A significant amount of light is illuminating the walls surrounding the table. That LED light is not a spotlight, it's a flood light.
You miss my point, which is that a fluorescent bulb emits light in 360 degrees, whereas an LED is pinpoint, and that means a much more focused light source. Obviously the higher you hang it the more that will spill out from the intended target, but that's true of any light source. Also the spillover effect from the picture is mostly just the way the camera picks it up. It's not even close to a flood light.
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Very nice light sjb, excellent job!
You hit the nail on the head, thats the one. He had quite a few lights, mine is not in perfect condition but I noticed as soon as I hung the light the imperfections seemed to have disappeared.
I could not agree with you more about the LED thing. It is my thinking that you need a light that covers almost the whole playing surface to get good lighting without shadows, thats why the Diamond and Brunswick professional lights are so big. As it stands right now there is no way I would trade my fluorescent for an LED, I have virtually no shadows on my table, none whatsoever with sharp lines or a high amount of contrast. When I play I turn off all the lights in my basement except for the light over my table. It is bright but not harsh over the table and the area around the table is dimly lit from the table light, it draws all of your attention to the center of the table. Maybe in a few years there will be adequate LED lighting for pool tables.
