Diamond Light price

Not going to argue things that are personal preference, but the thing to bear in mind with a diffusing agent is that it's absorbing a great deal of your light. In the case of the reflective grids that's close to 40-45% of the total light output of your bulbs. That's a large number.

Also consider that your standard fluorescents are emitting light in 360 degrees, and then the interior of the fixture is reflecting that light that's aimed away from the table back towards the playing surface. However, and even larger percentage of that light is absorbed by the fixture. This is a waste, and with the LED panels fully 100% of the light output is directed straight down at your playing surface. And if you were worried about diffusing you could attach a reflective grid to each one and still increase the total light on your table by a significant factor.

The other thing to bear in mind is flicker, which is inherent in fluorescents. It happens because the ballast is sending electricity into the bulb in really quick intervals to excite the gases inside and produce light. You don't actually see this with your eyes, but your brain does. And it's why people who spend a lot of time under fluorescents report mental fatigue and eye strain, and why a lot of us have a bit of a headache after a really long session of pool. With LED this is also completely eliminated.

You are spot on about the fluorescent flicker. We don't consciously see it because it's so fast but it's there and it is why late into pool tournaments, or long practice sessions our eyes get blurred and tired. Your brain picks it up and processes it an extra step as solid light. But doesn't have to do that with daylight our LED.

Here is niels Feijen new home table room....notice what light he uses....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-isNeP0Gc

It seems to work just fine for him.
 
You are spot on about the fluorescent flicker. We don't consciously see it because it's so fast but it's there and it is why late into pool tournaments, or long practice sessions our eyes get blurred and tired. Your brain picks it up and processes it an extra step as solid light. But doesn't have to do that with daylight our LED.

Here is niels Feijen new home table room....notice what light he uses....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-isNeP0Gc

It seems to work just fine for him.

As I explained in one of my earlier post about building a $200 light and "you get what you pay for". Cheaper fluorescent ballast, bulbs and fixtures will produce much of what you are describing.
With that being said... ballast have come a long way from the electromagnetic ballast of years gone by that operated on a much slower frequency of 100 or 120 Hz... causing the type of flicker that you are describing.
Top grade "electronic" ballast operate at a much higher frequency rate converting 60 Hz of input power into 20 kHz – 60 kHz (usually 20 to 40 kHz). The rate of flicker from a premium grade electronic ballast into a fluorescent tube (which will have "flicker" since it is an electrically charged gas), is at a rate so fast that the human brain basically can't accept it as anything other than constant light... unlike the magnetic ballast of yesteryear.
This can somewhat be compared to the range of human hearing. It is commonly known that the human brain will only allow the ears to hear within a range 20 Hz to 20 kHz. You can buy high end stereo equipment that produce a much broader range than this but... you're brain will never be able to detect it.
Fluorescent flicker and eye fatigue (powered by the proper ballast) will not likely cause the type of fatigue that you are talking about until the phosphor drops off in efficiency during use over time. After about 25,000 operating hours with a fluorescent tube it will only produce about 1/2 of it's initial output and at this point is where there is a flicker level where the brain can more easily be affected by it and it is at (or before) this point that the tubes need to be replaced.
Most people just put new bulbs in and wait until the lights start to strobe or burn out completely, not understanding anything about the principles of charging gases and how they break down over time.

I'm not defending fluorescent lighting as the better source over LED lighting... it's not. But I am saying that it will get better and much more affordable over time (quite soon I'm guessing) and at this point in time... it's not cost effective to change over just yet.
I also stand by light diffusion being the ultimate way to illuminate a billiard table and refuse (myself) to hang an annoyingly bright square over my table that will cast hard shadows over everything while acting as an ambient flood light for the rest of the room. Yes... there is light % lost in diffusion... that's part of physics. But it is the best and at this time (as far as I know) the only way to soften hard shadows into soft.
As I said in an earlier post... show me one pool shooter who is using metallic diffusers over their table that is willing to get rid of them... or anyone who has changed away from them and says that the lighting on their table is better.
Show me a $600 LED panel that will "properly" illuminate a 9' x 4 1/2' table head to foot... side to side... also defuse out the shadows... and not blind me if I happen to look up at it... I'll buy it. But it just doesn't exist... yet.

Good enough for someone else isn't what I'm going after in my room. The optimum shooting environment is the goal.

But ya'll keep pushing and selling those lights to anyone who will buy them at their current price. The quicker you get the market flooded with them... the sooner the rest of us will gut out boxes and exchange to the newer affordable versions of the LED's in a year or two.
 
As I explained in one of my earlier post about building a $200 light and "you get what you pay for". Cheaper fluorescent ballast, bulbs and fixtures will produce much of what you are describing.
With that being said... ballast have come a long way from the electromagnetic ballast of years gone by that operated on a much slower frequency of 100 or 120 Hz... causing the type of flicker that you are describing.
Top grade "electronic" ballast operate at a much higher frequency rate converting 60 Hz of input power into 20 kHz – 60 kHz (usually 20 to 40 kHz). The rate of flicker from a premium grade electronic ballast into a fluorescent tube (which will have "flicker" since it is an electrically charged gas), is at a rate so fast that the human brain basically can't accept it as anything other than constant light... unlike the magnetic ballast of yesteryear.
This can somewhat be compared to the range of human hearing. It is commonly known that the human brain will only allow the ears to hear within a range 20 Hz to 20 kHz. You can buy high end stereo equipment that produce a much broader range than this but... you're brain will never be able to detect it.
Fluorescent flicker and eye fatigue (powered by the proper ballast) will not likely cause the type of fatigue that you are talking about until the phosphor drops off in efficiency during use over time. After about 25,000 operating hours with a fluorescent tube it will only produce about 1/2 of it's initial output and at this point is where there is a flicker level where the brain can more easily be affected by it and it is at (or before) this point that the tubes need to be replaced.
Most people just put new bulbs in and wait until the lights start to strobe or burn out completely, not understanding anything about the principles of charging gases and how they break down over time.

I'm not defending fluorescent lighting as the better source over LED lighting... it's not. But I am saying that it will get better and much more affordable over time (quite soon I'm guessing) and at this point in time... it's not cost effective to change over just yet.
I also stand by light diffusion being the ultimate way to illuminate a billiard table and refuse (myself) to hang an annoyingly bright square over my table that will cast hard shadows over everything while acting as an ambient flood light for the rest of the room. Yes... there is light % lost in diffusion... that's part of physics. But it is the best and at this time (as far as I know) the only way to soften hard shadows into soft.
As I said in an earlier post... show me one pool shooter who is using metallic diffusers over their table that is willing to get rid of them... or anyone who has changed away from them and says that the lighting on their table is better.
Show me a $600 LED panel that will "properly" illuminate a 9' x 4 1/2' table head to foot... side to side... also defuse out the shadows... and not blind me if I happen to look up at it... I'll buy it. But it just doesn't exist... yet.

Good enough for someone else isn't what I'm going after in my room. The optimum shooting environment is the goal.

But ya'll keep pushing and selling those lights to anyone who will buy them at their current price. The quicker you get the market flooded with them... the sooner the rest of us will gut out boxes and exchange to the newer affordable versions of the LED's in a year or two.

From what I researched and talked to distributors, that light that Niels is using in the video I posted from his home table is $300 and ships for $100. That's not that bad. Like you said LED tv's came down in price and it's already happening with LED over head lighting.

I saw stills from a euro tour stop in another thread....all the pool hall table lights were LED flat panel.

And none of them had diffusers or boxes. The pool playing world is already making the shift. I understand your points about affordability, but the op is looking at diamond lights for $600. The LED is already cheaper from the information I gathered.
 
https://m.facebook.com/316778628871.../10151915270483872/?type=1&source=46&refid=17

My mistake, I went back and checked...This is a tour stop in Italy. Looks like Longoni makes an LED light and it appears there is a diffuser installed. What do you think?

Looks like good illumination, and very out of the way (thin). Looks perfect for basements.

Now that's more what I'm talking about. It's the first one that I've ever seen that actually looks like someone put some thought into it. And you're right... if that light can be delivered to my door for $400 then it would be worth considering. There is a vast difference between this light that you are showing here and that small bright $400 square that "Bbutler" posted pics of.
I've been researching LED lighting a lot over the past couple of years (and a lot lately) but nothing that I've run across was similar to this light and I just can't imagine getting one at $400 delivered.
It does look like it's quite a bit short of 8' long seeing how high they have it hung to illuminate the entire table. But this is what I'm referring to as market growth. When you start seeing these types of lights being manufactured then we know that bigger, better and less expensive is just down the road.

Thanks for the update on that. It's still quite plain and sterile looking (needs some wood trim). I also agree "Looks perfect for basements". The light Feijen is using in the youtube video doesn't look like the same light from above.

Like I said... I'm not in any way supporting fluorescent lighting over LED. I'm not a fan of mass disposal of mercury tubes and CFL bulbs in land fills. Even though they aren't supposed to be placed in with common trash everyone does it. I have new bulbs for my Diamond now. In a few years (or less) when the lux value over my table drops to a measurably noticeable loss of lighting... I'll likely be on board with LED replacements.

I'll be researching this light a lot over the next week or so. I'm interested in user feedback from it. Thanks for digging up this latest view of the panel... puts a whole new light on things (sorry couldn't resist that pun).
 
https://m.facebook.com/316778628871.../10151915270483872/?type=1&source=46&refid=17

My mistake, I went back and checked...This is a tour stop in Italy. Looks like Longoni makes an LED light and it appears there is a diffuser installed. What do you think?

Looks like good illumination, and very out of the way (thin). Looks perfect for basements.

Researched this light by Longoni. If you convert the cost from Italian to US you're looking at over $1000 US + overseas shipping cost, but I'm sure that you couldn't get one here anyway. The reason is...

American Snooker table 9 foot Light:

Dimensions: 247x31x6.
Weight: 22.20 KG.
Wattage: 132.
Volts/HZ: 220/50. <------

Not designed for use in the US. Nothing on their site (that I could find) suggest that. And at that we are still looking at around $1000 and shipping overseas if they did. Like I said... the market is so far from where it needs to be... yet so close.
 
I bought a used Diamond light it provides excellent light and it finishes off the table. I think I paid $800 shipped so $650 sounds like a deal. It is the smaller version light for a 9 footer. You can use 2 4 foot T8 shoplights from Lowes and the light is about the same but IMO they look like hell
 
Researched this light by Longoni. If you convert the cost from Italian to US you're looking at over $1000 US + overseas shipping cost, but I'm sure that you couldn't get one here anyway. The reason is...

American Snooker table 9 foot Light:

Dimensions: 247x31x6.
Weight: 22.20 KG.
Wattage: 132.
Volts/HZ: 220/50. <------

Not designed for use in the US. Nothing on their site (that I could find) suggest that. And at that we are still looking at around $1000 and shipping overseas if they did. Like I said... the market is so far from where it needs to be... yet so close.


Woah, a thousand bucks is a little steep. You are right. I have a S2 shaft from Longoni, it's what I play with. They make impeccable gear, so I assume the quality is too notch. I understand Longoni sponsors niels Feijen so maybe they made him Special light for his home table.
Did they say it has to be hung at a certain height for proper illumination?

Thanks for the extra research. Now we would just have to get the dimensions and contract out a LED lighting company to make us one for the States at 110 V for less than four hundred and we are on a roll!
 
I bought a used Diamond light it provides excellent light and it finishes off the table. I think I paid $800 shipped so $650 sounds like a deal. It is the smaller version light for a 9 footer. You can use 2 4 foot T8 shoplights from Lowes and the light is about the same but IMO they look like hell

I am with you. My Brunswick light looks great above my Gold Crown, no way would I exchange that LED light like we saw in the Niels video, that plain fixture makes the table or the room look kind of crappy.
 
I am with you. My Brunswick light looks great above my Gold Crown, no way would I exchange that LED light like we saw in the Niels video, that plain fixture makes the table or the room look kind of crappy.

Yea... if it's a cheap alternative for someone who can't afford a nice wooden piece of furniture hanging over their table that's one thing... But when you step into a room that has the total atmosphere of comfort, design and game... it draws you in every single day.
I'm not knocking people dealing within what they can afford.... a table and a light is often all any of us need if we don't have the funds for better (and have the room, garage, or basement). But I'm with you in that this light looks more like something that used to hang in an old textile mill than a piece of furniture. No design... just a metal cased light.

Too industrial looking for a home billiard room. I'd never hang one in my room... but in time (as I've said several times) I'll gut out a Diamond (or GC) box and mount LED lights inside when the time comes. The big wait is basically for the 8' LED tubes to get better and cheaper... then bypass the ballast wiring and replace the old florescents with LED tubes.
 
Im not sure what the price is of a new Diamond full size light as I got it with me table without an upcharge.

But having played under lots of light variations over the year, I can unequivocally say nothing lights up a table like a full size Diamond. It has 6 bulbs total and does an amazing job.

I'm very happy with it and hope you find something that meets all of your criteria.
 

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Like the way of televisions and mobile phones, pool table lights will go. From big and boxy to sleek and thin. It's Already happening. :thumbup:
 
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Like the way of televisions and mobile phones, pool table lights will go. From big and boxy to sleek and thin. It's Already happening. :thumbup:

Maybe... but we're talking about a piece of furniture... not just a light. So by that rule what is your sofa or coffee table going to look like?
Televisions became sleek because they were too confining sitting on top of furniture. Now they can just be hung from the wall.
Mobile phones slimmed down because they were easier to carry and keep up with.
I don't seriously believe that either of these comparisons happened because of a new idea of what esthetics should look like with TVs or cell phones. It was functionality that caused these design changes once we were able to get away from the old CRT tubes. Televisions were almost never attractive at their best before flat screens. The first cell phones were big, bulky, clumsy and heavy (and not all that portable).
However a wooden framed light hanging over a pool table is not going to be any more intrusive than a skinny square metal frame (it's hanging well out of the way)... but it will be more attractive.
Or should Diamond and GC-IV table owners be worried about their tables soon becoming obsolete, because future pool tables will be thin, metal (or plastic) and as plain as possible with no decorative imagination.
If your prognostications are true about the bland looks of billiard light designs of the future... so be it. But I'm really doubting that the purest will travel that route... at least in my lifetime. Even the youngest of successful ladder climbers in this country fill their homes with the nicest wooden furnishings that they can afford.
You're defining functionality as style. Everyone tries to make things that are best built functionally... more stylish... it helps to sell the product. Each has it's place... but style will always win out... if it is still functionally sound.
Pool halls will perhaps go the path of smaller, thinner LED lighting just because the electrical cost of running 10 or more lights would be economically effective. But you can't honestly believe that flat black metal light can compare in appearance to a well crafted wood-grained piece of furniture.
Just because they have them in some places in Europe doesn't predict anything. This metallic style of lighting resembles the types of hanging lights from back in the 1940's and 50's in old department stores. I'll take Ky Boy's table/ light setup... any day.
People will buy and believe what they want to. I think that the only way these will be a future popular option is if they are priced well below that of a "furniture" style light.

And with that... I'm out of comments for this thread. Go sell em'
 
Maybe... but we're talking about a piece of furniture... not just a light. So by that rule what is your sofa or coffee table going to look like?
Televisions became sleek because they were too confining sitting on top of furniture. Now they can just be hung from the wall.
Mobile phones slimmed down because they were easier to carry and keep up with.
I don't seriously believe that either of these comparisons happened because of a new idea of what esthetics should look like with TVs or cell phones. It was functionality that caused these design changes once we were able to get away from the old CRT tubes. Televisions were almost never attractive at their best before flat screens. The first cell phones were big, bulky, clumsy and heavy (and not all that portable).
However a wooden framed light hanging over a pool table is not going to be any more intrusive than a skinny square metal frame (it's hanging well out of the way)... but it will be more attractive.
Or should Diamond and GC-IV table owners be worried about their tables soon becoming obsolete, because future pool tables will be thin, metal (or plastic) and as plain as possible with no decorative imagination.
If your prognostications are true about the bland looks of billiard light designs of the future... so be it. But I'm really doubting that the purest will travel that route... at least in my lifetime. Even the youngest of successful ladder climbers in this country fill their homes with the nicest wooden furnishings that they can afford.
You're defining functionality as style. Everyone tries to make things that are best built functionally... more stylish... it helps to sell the product. Each has it's place... but style will always win out... if it is still functionally sound.
Pool halls will perhaps go the path of smaller, thinner LED lighting just because the electrical cost of running 10 or more lights would be economically effective. But you can't honestly believe that flat black metal light can compare in appearance to a well crafted wood-grained piece of furniture.
Just because they have them in some places in Europe doesn't predict anything. This metallic style of lighting resembles the types of hanging lights from back in the 1940's and 50's in old department stores. I'll take Ky Boy's table/ light setup... any day.
People will buy and believe what they want to. I think that the only way these will be a future popular option is if they are priced well below that of a "furniture" style light.

And with that... I'm out of comments for this thread. Go sell em'

C'mon, you're telling me you can't look at the photo of the Italian tour stop and see how aesthetically *****in it looks with those futuristic thin lights hovering above each table? It's a cool look. And aesthetics/pleasing to the eyes have a lot to do with lights. Hence the recessed overhead lighting popular in open concept houses.

And I'm going to speak personally for myself as a basement pool table owner with eight foot ceilings, a big box light you have to duck and dodge all the time. A thin LED is out of the way. I'm sold.
 
Here's an email I just got from an LED buyer:

From: xxxxx
To: brian_butler@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: LED

Light installed about 7.5 feet (228.5cm) from the floor.
About 4'9" (145 cm). from light to playing surface.

Did not install the dimmer.

Very satisfied with the results.

You can use these pics as you like.

Thanks,

xxxx

Here are the pics he sent. I think the result is pretty nice.

tableone.jpeg


table2.jpeg


table3.jpeg


table5.jpeg


table4.jpeg
 
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