Diamond pocket angles ?

sixwillwin

sixwillwin

King of the Meadow
Silver Member
I have a 2007ish red label proam 9 foot diamond table. I have had it one year. I was told by seller/Diamond authorized mechanic, that he had redone the rails etc. Make it similar to Blue Label (unsure). It plays great except for: Balls seem to hang up in the corner pockets and rebound across the jaws, more than other Diamonds I play on. I just played on a different proam and balls definitely dropped easier, wasn't so slow speed dependent on the rail shots. It seemed like the facing angles on the cushions were slightly different, but that is just from eyeballing them, I'm not sure.

How can I determine what my pocket (cushion face?) angles are? I am curious if that may be why? Or is there some test or measurement I can do to determine if it is taking balls as it should? Btw, I love my table and it is making me a better player, this is mostly from a curiosity standpoint. Thank you in advance.


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sixwillwin said:
I have a 2009 red label proam 9 foot diamond table. I have had it one year. I was told by seller that RKC had redone the rails etc at some point. I have tried to email and message him to verify but no luck in a reply. Balls seem to hang up in the corner pockets and rebound across the jaws, more than other Diamonds I play on. I just played on a different proam and balls definitely dropped easier, wasn't so slow speed dependent on the rail shots. It seemed like the facing angles on the cushions were slightly different, but that is just from eyeballing them, I'm not sure.

How can I determine what my pocket (cushion face?) angles are? I am curious if that may be why? Or is there some test or measurement I can do to determine if it is taking balls as it should? Btw, I love my table and it is making me a better player, this is mostly from a curiosity standpoint. Thank you in advance.


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Click to expand...

Pick up a cheap angle finder. Harbor Freight should have them.
 
sixwillwin said:
I have a 2009 red label proam 9 foot diamond table. I have had it one year. I was told by seller that RKC had redone the rails etc at some point. I have tried to email and message him to verify but no luck in a reply. Balls seem to hang up in the corner pockets and rebound across the jaws, more than other Diamonds I play on. I just played on a different proam and balls definitely dropped easier, wasn't so slow speed dependent on the rail shots. It seemed like the facing angles on the cushions were slightly different, but that is just from eyeballing them, I'm not sure.

How can I determine what my pocket (cushion face?) angles are? I am curious if that may be why? Or is there some test or measurement I can do to determine if it is taking balls as it should? Btw, I love my table and it is making me a better player, this is mostly from a curiosity standpoint. Thank you in advance.


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Click to expand...

The pocket angles are the same as Diamond is using today, the problem you're having is grazing the rails on the way into the pocket....and that can be greatly increased if the cloth is in need of being replaced.
 
I got a cheap angle finder today and measured my different corner pocket angles. This is a cheap $9 tool and I probably am not being real accurate, the numbers I am seeing are in between 141.5 and 143.

Took some pictures while I was measuring, if anybody wants to see them I could post them here.

I guess the next time my table gets recovered, I could have somebody look at the pocket angles? From what I understand 141° is optimum for my diamond table and accepts balls slightly easier than say a 143* ?
 
sixwillwin said:
I got a cheap angle finder today and measured my different corner pocket angles. This is a cheap $9 tool and I probably am not being real accurate, the numbers I am seeing are in between 141.5 and 143.

Took some pictures while I was measuring, if anybody wants to see them I could post them here.

I guess the next time my table gets recovered, I could have somebody look at the pocket angles? From what I understand 141° is optimum for my diamond table and accepts balls slightly easier than say a 143* ?
Click to expand...

A LOT EASIER than 143* on rail shots .
I don't know if 141* is the optimal angle, but that is what Diamond designed for their tables.
Imho, 4 7/16 corners at 139* would play better. 4 3/8" even.
 
JoeyInCali said:
A LOT EASIER than 143* on rail shots .
I don't know if 141* is the optimal angle, but that is what Diamond designed for their tables.
Imho, 4 7/16 corners at 139* would play better. 4 3/8" even.
Click to expand...

what is the basis for this "honest opinion" ? 139 degree's would be weird.... 141 works great, if you miss hit the ball the pocket rejects it back into the playing surface. if you hit it right it goes in. there is the times it rattles in the corner on diamond tables, usually when you try to cheat the pocket to much.
 
sixwillwin said:
I got a cheap angle finder today and measured my different corner pocket angles. This is a cheap $9 tool and I probably am not being real accurate, the numbers I am seeing are in between 141.5 and 143.

Took some pictures while I was measuring, if anybody wants to see them I could post them here.

I guess the next time my table gets recovered, I could have somebody look at the pocket angles? From what I understand 141° is optimum for my diamond table and accepts balls slightly easier than say a 143* ?
Click to expand...
Who did you buy the table from?
 
Line up 4 balls frozen to the rail above the side pocket and hit the stack with break speed. if the bottom ball goes by the side and pockets in the corner your table is fine. You just have to stop trying to cheat the pocket down the rail on the rail side at any kind of speed. RKC did my table and the cloth is 3 years old now but in great shape still. If you graze the outside rail too much on the way in the ball rattles most of the time. The answer isn't in the table, it's in the aim. Aim better, it will improve your game.

JC
 
JC said:
Line up 4 balls frozen to the rail above the side pocket and hit the stack with break speed. if the bottom ball goes by the side and pockets in the corner your table is fine. You just have to stop trying to cheat the pocket down the rail on the rail side at any kind of speed. RKC did my table and the cloth is 3 years old now but in great shape still. If you graze the outside rail too much on the way in the ball rattles most of the time. The answer isn't in the table, it's in the aim. Aim better, it will improve your game.

JC
Click to expand...

Ok. I just did this test three times on each pocket and each time the ball dropped. So I guess that's good if that is a legitimate test. Thanks for offering it. I am going to get a more expensive digital angle finder this week and double check the pocket angles.

There is a group of three or four of us that play on my table alot and whenever we go to a different DIAMOND table somewhere, everyone comments how easy it seems compared to my table. That leads me to believe my pocket angles are a little bit off for some reason. But I guess not horribly after doing the above rail test.

When I get it recovered at some point, although the cloth is really good yet, hopefully I can find a good mechanic to check the angles and adjust if necessary. So is it a fact that I want to be at 141°?

Thank you to everyone who replied and offered suggestions. And thx RKC for your private message
 
sixwillwin said:
Ok. I just did this test three times on each pocket and each time the ball dropped. So I guess that's good if that is a legitimate test. Thanks for offering it. I am going to get a more expensive digital angle finder this week and double check the pocket angles.

There is a group of three or four of us that play on my table alot and whenever we go to a different DIAMOND table somewhere, everyone comments how easy it seems compared to my table. That leads me to believe my pocket angles are a little bit off for some reason. But I guess not horribly after doing the above rail test.

When I get it recovered at some point, although the cloth is really good yet, hopefully I can find a good mechanic to check the angles and adjust if necessary. So is it a fact that I want to be at 141°?

Thank you to everyone who replied and offered suggestions. And thx RKC for your private message
Click to expand...

There is no right or wrong pocket angle for your personal table. If you want the pockets to accept balls easier then change the angle closer to 135 degrees. The closer the pocket facings get to parallel to each other, the easier it will be to pocket balls, all other things equal. Make it how you want it.


JC
 
As RKC said this ball rattle gets worse the more the cloth gets worn. If you want some relief then you may want to try this. Look at your pocket facings and you will see the area up high where the balls have been contacting the facings. There will be a dirty stripe visible there. Clean the cloth there with a warm rag soaked and well wrung out with warm water with some fabric softener in it. Should give the balls the slip/nudge they need to not rattle so bad for a while.

JC
 
Thanks JC! I will try that. Also just wanted to update with a digital angle finder I got. I checked all eight angles on the four corner pockets. They range from 141.3 to 143.5 with most in the 142.5 area.

One thing I noticed and was confirmed with the straight edges on the angle finder, is how the ends of the angles, where it meets the nose of the cushion are all slightly rounded out.

I will post a couple pics and you can hopefully see that, I will place some black cloth under that area and i hope it shows up. not sure if its normal or not or even if it affects play at all. just looking for some opinions.


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^
You're gonna hate those when the cloth gets worn.
They'll be spitting balls out even if you hit the ball right.
 
If RKC in fact cut the pocket angles they don't vary from one to the other. It's your gauge.

The setup he uses is dead nuts and there is no variance. I have seen it in action. It's clean as hell.

JC
 
JC said:
If RKC in fact cut the pocket angles they don't vary from one to the other. It's your gauge.

The setup he uses is dead nuts and there is no variance. I have seen it in action. It's clean as hell.

JC
Click to expand...

RKC did not. RKC told me recently he remembered getting some calls from the mechanic possibly, asking a few questions.

I wish i hadnt researched this, its going to bug me now. :smile:

Truth is the table plays great, the pockets all accepted the 4 frozen ball test, so I shouldnt worry about it. Maybe I will just get the cloth changed really early and fix the pocket angles. Any mechanics up for it? I am in South Dakota. :thumbup:
 
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Just bringing this back up because I have had NO luck finding a mechanic. My pocket angles are around 142+* to 143* and that rejects alot of balls. I would like it be more like a factory Diamond of 141*. At least that what I have been told.

I have done the 4 ball down the rail test and the balls go in, but everyone that plays on it says it much harder than normal Diamond.

Anyone with suggestions?
Thanks!
 
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sixwillwin said:
Just bringing this back up because I have had NO luck finding a mechanic. My pocket angles are around 142+* to 143* and that rejects alot of balls. I would like it be more like a factory Diamond of 141*. At least that what I have been told.

I have done the 4 ball down the rail test and the balls go in, but everyone that plays on it says it much harder than normal Diamond.

Anyone with suggestions?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Get it fixed .
Get it down to 140* even.
 
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