Diamond Pro-Am Misconceptions

[realkingcobra]

Yes I bought a 7' pro-am with procut pockets and simonis 860 cloth

It does not matter though it is a fine table. I will use it to improve my ball control and be able to play on any table. I was not trying to stir the pot or start any debates on here. I was simply wondering if anyone else knew things about the table that they thought should be known prior to purchasing one. I see a perceive a huge difference between the quality of the cushions. When I look at other tables including GC with their superspeed cushions that last about 20 years typically to the diamond blacks with a 7 year warrenty. I noticed others on here that seem to want to put blame on me for not knowing prior to purchase or think it is some sort of joke. It is not a joke or anything to make fun of or place blame on any individual. I wanted to share my thoughts with other potential buyers so they were more prepared prior to paying $5400 or $5600 of their own. I do not have the space for a larger table in my apartment.

Let me stop you right there, I don't know if you go back far enough to remember the Brunswick Gold Crown 3's having rock hard cushions right out of the box, but I certainly do, by the 100's of tables....all Brunswick did was send out new replacement cushions at no cost, but didn't fork out a dime towards the cost of labor to replace them....so let's get that straight right now. Second, in 16 years of working with Diamond, I have yet to replace a set of black cushions. Third, you could have requested the Artemis International K55 cushions be installed on your new 7ft Pro am, UT you didn't ask. Even Ford don't put the same tires and rims on all the Mustangs they sell that come with the Shelby GT500. And forth, who gave you a time line of 7 years life of the black cushions?....because who ever did is an idiot and don't know shit....that's not my opinion, those are the facts. I know a whole lot of table mechanics around this country that are installing the Diamond black K55 cushions on BRUNSWICK GCS, instead of the Superspeeds....why do you suppose that is?

 

[Kevin3824]

Let me stop you right there, I don't know if you go back far enough to remember the Brunswick Gold Crown 3's having rock hard cushions right out of the box, but I certainly do, by the 100's of tables....all Brunswick did was send out new replacement cushions at no cost, but didn't fork out a dime towards the cost of labor to replace them....so let's get that straight right now. Second, in 16 years of working with Diamond, I have yet to replace a set of black cushions. Third, you could have requested the Artemis International K55 cushions be installed on your new 7ft Pro am, UT you didn't ask. Even Ford don't put the same tires and rims on all the Mustangs they sell that come with the Shelby GT500. And forth, who gave you a time line of 7 years life of the black cushions?....because who ever did is an idiot and don't know shit....that's not my opinion, those are the facts. I know a whole lot of table mechanics around this country that are installing the Diamond black K55 cushions on BRUNSWICK GCS, instead of the Superspeeds....why do you suppose that is?

You know I did not give attitude here before this yet I read it in your comment above RKC. First I would like to ask you then what is the warrenty on the Black Diamond Cushions if it is not 7 years? Diamond themselves told the person I bought it off of it was seven years. They also mentioned that the black cushions were made exclusively for Diamond and put on the 7,8 foot tables because they wanted to slow down the rebound on the smaller tables. Secondly, I was not comparing multiple models of the table I was comparing the exact same model that is sold in three lengths. The same model should retain the same materials, and quality standards. Thirdly I was under the impression when I ordered it they would have been the highest quality cushions on the market. Far as why do I think people are installing diamond cushions on GCs that is simple as well. I think they are doing that because the angle and facings are different between Brunswick and Diamond. I also think that they are under the impression that bastardizing their gold crowns the way you have taught people to do on here will give them a better playing table then Brunswick made in the first place. While it may become a better playing table it is no longer original and it will lose value as an antique.

I commend you on your knowledge as a table mechanic I think your probably one of the best in the country, However, I had two of your coworkers installing my table back in April which took them 5 hours and the table had to be put together inside the house. They told me that if you had done it you would have shown up in your RV and plugged into my water and electric and it would have taken a week. That would not have been acceptable to me and I am sure the city I live in would have arrested you for sleeping in an rv in city limits and towed your RV. Your coworkers do not respect you as much as I do because I learn from your comments. I also heard that Diamond only has three crews of installers which I thought they were far larger then that as a company. I am sure they also have many contractors they sub out work to though for larger events.

I just think that Diamond Billiards needs to fix their website so people can make their choices online accurately, If I was to go to a car dealer website I could see a picture of the exact car I was buying. The colors would be accurate. There is a lot to be said for truth in advertising. The Diamond website is so poorly laid out it is difficult to even find specific information about materials used. It has not mentioned in the past year dymondwood is not available. Nor do they offer any discounts for a table made with materials other then dymondwood. When I went on there I sent them an email to get price and availability and did not receive a call back for more then 5 days. I ended up buying through one of their dealers instead.

Keep in mind Table Mechanics have the advantage of working on the table and seeing all the parts up close. When my rails were shipped to me they were already covered in cloth just needed to be bolted together and bolted on top of the table bed after wit was put together and cloth installed.

Reading on here has made me believe that while the pro am may be the best table on the market if it is not made with 100% gum rubber cushions like the ones on their 9 foot models they should be named something else other than Pro-Am.

 

[realkingcobra]

You know I did not give attitude here before this yet I read it in your comment above RKC. First I would like to ask you then what is the warrenty on the Black Diamond Cushions if it is not 7 years? Diamond themselves told the person I bought it off of it was seven years. They also mentioned that the black cushions were made exclusively for Diamond and put on the 7,8 foot tables because they wanted to slow down the rebound on the smaller tables. Secondly, I was not comparing multiple models of the table I was comparing the exact same model that is sold in three lengths. The same model should retain the same materials, and quality standards. Thirdly I was under the impression when I ordered it they would have been the highest quality cushions on the market. Far as why do I think people are installing diamond cushions on GCs that is simple as well. I think they are doing that because the angle and facings are different between Brunswick and Diamond. I also think that they are under the impression that bastardizing their gold crowns the way you have taught people to do on here will give them a better playing table then Brunswick made in the first place. While it may become a better playing table it is no longer original and it will lose value as an antique.

I commend you on your knowledge as a table mechanic I think your probably one of the best in the country, However, I had two of your coworkers installing my table back in April which took them 5 hours and the table had to be put together inside the house. They told me that if you had done it you would have shown up in your RV and plugged into my water and electric and it would have taken a week. That would not have been acceptable to me and I am sure the city I live in would have arrested you for sleeping in an rv in city limits and towed your RV. Your coworkers do not respect you as much as I do because I learn from your comments. I also heard that Diamond only has three crews of installers which I thought they were far larger then that as a company. I am sure they also have many contractors they sub out work to though for larger events.

I just think that Diamond Billiards needs to fix their website so people can make their choices online accurately, If I was to go to a car dealer website I could see a picture of the exact car I was buying. The colors would be accurate. There is a lot to be said for truth in advertising. The Diamond website is so poorly laid out it is difficult to even find specific information about materials used. It has not mentioned in the past year dymondwood is not available. Nor do they offer any discounts for a table made with materials other then dymondwood. When I went on there I sent them an email to get price and availability and did not receive a call back for more then 5 days. I ended up buying through one of their dealers instead.

Keep in mind Table Mechanics have the advantage of working on the table and seeing all the parts up close. When my rails were shipped to me they were already covered in cloth just needed to be bolted together and bolted on top of the table bed after wit was put together and cloth installed.

Reading on here has made me believe that while the pro am may be the best table on the market if it is not made with 100% gum rubber cushions like the ones on their 9 foot models they should be named something else other than Pro-Am.

Well now, I guess there's one reason to try and explain to you that you have no idea what you're talking about.....you did that all by yourself....LMAO

 

[Kevin3824]

Well now, I guess there's one reason to try and explain to you that you have no idea what you're talking about.....you did that all by yourself....LMAO

I have always read your postings and known you know how pool tables are put together better then most. You even have a very deep knowledge of what makes a table play better. That was never an issue. In fact, I did not take issue with you until I felt like you were treating me like an idiot.

My main point through all of this thread was to inform people of things that are not mentioned on the manufacturers website. The use of different key components ithing a particular model line should be clearly stated on the website otherwise it is deceiving to the customer. The lack of proper color charts for the wood tables they send out instead of dymondwood tables is also deceptive. The actual delivery and installation time should also be clearly stated on the web. In fact, If a table cannot be installed completely within the given time frame there should be a discount refunded to the customer. My table was installed in about 5 hours and the crew was not busting their arses either. Therefore, I see no reason why it could not be completed in a day under any circumstances. If they are going to sell a table with wood instead of dymondwood then either use the type of wood your selling it as or at least a stain that will look like it.
In my case I ordered Rosewood and got a finish that looks like a deep cherry color. When I questioned it I was told they use the same stain for both cherry and rosewood. I originally thought with your vast knowledge you would have been able to add to the list of things people should know before buying from Diamond. I guess I overestimated your knowledge.

Now I am done debating with you RKC as this has gone mainly off topic. Maybe I should simply post a list of things to be aware of when buying from Diamond.

 

[realkingcobra]

I have always read your postings and known you know how pool tables are put together better then most. You even have a very deep knowledge of what makes a table play better. That was never an issue. In fact, I did not take issue with you until I felt like you were treating me like an idiot.

My main point through all of this thread was to inform people of things that are not mentioned on the manufacturers website. The use of different key components ithing a particular model line should be clearly stated on the website otherwise it is deceiving to the customer. The lack of proper color charts for the wood tables they send out instead of dymondwood tables is also deceptive. The actual delivery and installation time should also be clearly stated on the web. In fact, If a table cannot be installed completely within the given time frame there should be a discount refunded to the customer. My table was installed in about 5 hours and the crew was not busting their arses either. Therefore, I see no reason why it could not be completed in a day under any circumstances. If they are going to sell a table with wood instead of dymondwood then either use the type of wood your selling it as or at least a stain that will look like it.
In my case I ordered Rosewood and got a finish that looks like a deep cherry color. When I questioned it I was told they use the same stain for both cherry and rosewood. I originally thought with your vast knowledge you would have been able to add to the list of things people should know before buying from Diamond. I guess I overestimated your knowledge.

Now I am done debating with you RKC as this has gone mainly off topic. Maybe I should simply post a list of things to be aware of when buying from Diamond.

Yeah, you're right, all installs are the same as yours. By the way, which floor do you live on, and what size was the elevator the table had to be loaded into, or did it have to be packed up the stairs to get it into your place?

 

[Kevin3824]

Yeah, you're right, all installs are the same as yours. By the way, which floor do you live on, and what size was the elevator the table had to be loaded into, or did it have to be packed up the stairs to get it into your place?

Well now who is showing how smart they are now. Had you actually read the thread prior to passing negative comments you would have seen It had to be built in my living room. There was question on if a turn could be made so mine was a 3 piece and was carried in one piece at a time then built in place. There happens to only be three or four steps to get in my place. No need for an elevator. the installers were not sure if they would have moved it in one piece when they saw it but I ordered 3 piece to be safe for any floor. Granted they only took 5 hours to install it and that was actually probably less but most people have 8 hour work days which leaves 3 hours for other issues that may arise. That installer team was the ones that told me if you did the same job it would have taken you a week to complete it. I have never seen you work before so I have no evidence of validity. Usually, coworkers can accurately estimate how long a job will take someone they have seen work or have worked with to complete a specific job.

However, the point of the concept of the refund of some of the cost if the table could not be installed in a reasonable amount of time was basically because when your told 8 weeks lead time you might plan ahead time off at work then find out it will not arrive for another month. By the time they call you to tell you an actual final delivery date keeping in mind till the say it is delivered nothing is set in stone. The customer may not even have ample time to give their employer notice.

So now if I have answered all your questions would you simply answer one question from your knowledge?

Is there any other differences between the Diamond pro am tables sizes with procut pockets that is not obvious on the diamond website other then the use of cheaper cushions on the smaller tables?

 

[Black-Balled]

There are always subtleties that ony come to light after ownership is assumed.

You got a great table. Enjoy it

 

[gxman]

The shelf on the 9ft diamond is deeper than on the 7ft. So now all 4.5" pockets plays the same.