Hey guys, I recently bought a 9' Diamond Pro Am. Upgraded from an 8' Connely. While I love the Diamond tables, this thing is killing my confidence. Exposing me for a less than accurate shooter or having an inability to adjust for conditions. Lol. Even when going back to league tables, mostly Valley, I am doubting my aim points and adjustments for english causing me to miss normally routine shots. I am only a month into owning the Diamond so I hope it will get better with time. I normally play with a Predator Z2 shaft which causes a lot of balls to be spun out of the pocket. When I switch to the 314 there is a noticeable improvement but I don't like using the 314 on other tables. Should I learn to play with two different shafts depending on the table or nuckle down and struggle thru a transition period with the Z2? Any thoughts on the matter?
Diamond tables
- Thread starter lilspoon
- Start date
The only issue I have with going from most Diamonds I have played on was with speed and banking. If you have the 4.5" pockets, making balls on any other table will be easy. Position will take a bit to get used to though, you are going from a fast consistent 9' table to probably a random speed 7' table with rails that probably play 6 different ways depending on what rail you hit.
But you are right, a well setup table with tight pockets will make you look bad for a while. Although I play on tables that have odd rolls, poorly setup pockets and old rails that also make you look bad, especially on shots needed more than a several foot area for position or slow kill shots. I absolutely HATE haivng to fight against the table as well as trying to beat the other player.
I think my biggest issue with pool is having such random equipment you play on, the game requires too much accuracy to have the table roll off a shot 3 inches to the side on it's own. It would be like if you are cooking and the oven randomly turns the temperature up and down, you're not going to get anything good from that.
But you are right, a well setup table with tight pockets will make you look bad for a while. Although I play on tables that have odd rolls, poorly setup pockets and old rails that also make you look bad, especially on shots needed more than a several foot area for position or slow kill shots. I absolutely HATE haivng to fight against the table as well as trying to beat the other player.
I think my biggest issue with pool is having such random equipment you play on, the game requires too much accuracy to have the table roll off a shot 3 inches to the side on it's own. It would be like if you are cooking and the oven randomly turns the temperature up and down, you're not going to get anything good from that.
Just play pool and keep with a cue & shaft combination that you like. Then allow your mind to make the subtle adjustments needed. Next, don't give up. If you do this, then be sure to remember your original post a year or so from now. With consistent, effective practice, you will almost assuredly have experienced measurable success during the next year or so.
Lastly, practice playing the ghost. Start with 3 balls and go all the way to the point that the ghost is beating you. It will prepare you for competition, as you will be competing against yourself. Lastly, you will be able to measure your progress against yourself and against other players using a semi-reliable yardstick.
Stay positive, have fun, and keep at it.
- Neil aka JL
P.S. I just use a sneaky pete w/ a standard maple shaft on both my 9' diamond pro and my 7' valley bar box. Why change it up?
P.S.S. Two or three years ago I could not beat the 9 ball ghost on my diamond, and now I can even in a race going to 11 or more. So I can testify that this type of practice can work. Oh yeah, try some straight pool too...
Lastly, practice playing the ghost. Start with 3 balls and go all the way to the point that the ghost is beating you. It will prepare you for competition, as you will be competing against yourself. Lastly, you will be able to measure your progress against yourself and against other players using a semi-reliable yardstick.
Stay positive, have fun, and keep at it.
- Neil aka JL
P.S. I just use a sneaky pete w/ a standard maple shaft on both my 9' diamond pro and my 7' valley bar box. Why change it up?
P.S.S. Two or three years ago I could not beat the 9 ball ghost on my diamond, and now I can even in a race going to 11 or more. So I can testify that this type of practice can work. Oh yeah, try some straight pool too...
Absolutely true! When the table prevents you from playing your game, it is awful, plain and simple. The fades in bars is getting worse and worse as time goes on. Even some pool halls!
Just play pool and keep with a cue & shaft combination that you like. Then allow your mind to make the subtle adjustments needed. Next, don't give up. If you do this, then be sure to remember your original post a year or so from now. With consistent, effective practice, you will almost assuredly have experienced measurable success during the next year or so.
Lastly, practice playing the ghost. Start with 3 balls and go all the way to the point that the ghost is beating you. It will prepare you for competition, as you will be competing against yourself. Lastly, you will be able to measure your progress against yourself and against other players using a semi-reliable yardstick.
Stay positive, have fun, and keep at it.
- Neil aka JL
P.S. I just use a sneaky pete w/ a standard maple shaft on both my 9' diamond pro and my 7' valley bar box. Why change it up?
P.S.S. Two or three years ago I could not beat the 9 ball ghost on my diamond, and now I can even in a race going to 11 or more. So I can testify that this type of practice can work. Oh yeah, try some straight pool too...
Not that is some solid advice!! Thank you very much sir. I will do just that.
Well first off, you went from a 8ft. to a 9ft. table. The old 8ft. had 5 inch pockets, your new table has 4 1/2 inch pockets. Plus, the pockets are cut a lil different angle. Basically,it's a tougher table than you are used to playing on.
Once you get to playing well on your new table, the other tables will be that much easier to pocket balls.
I've had my Diamond for about 6 years now, my game has jumped up noticeably
If you have new 860 on the table, you can get a lot of skid until it wears in. Also, once it does wear in, the pockets will get TIGHTER...lol. I would try staying in the middle of the cue ball for a while ( high, low, center ) and make a lot of balls giving up some position play. Making balls gives you confidence.
Good luck
Good luck
In six months or so, when you step up to a Valley it will feel like a toy with peach baskets for corners and fescue for cloth. You'll feel like you can let your stroke out, run and gun style.
I don't like the springy rails ,short banking or tight pockets either. But, I did exactly that on my home table because it's much easier going from that to a Brunswick or Valley than the other way around.
Hang in there buddy. It's 100% mental 90% of the time.
I don't like the springy rails ,short banking or tight pockets either. But, I did exactly that on my home table because it's much easier going from that to a Brunswick or Valley than the other way around.
Hang in there buddy. It's 100% mental 90% of the time.
I had the same fear of diamonds and gradually overcame it.
I still cry when I rattle a ball but I'm working on that (on both the rattling and the crying lol).
So, you asked for thoughts -
1. Diamond's pockets are tighter, but they're also cut a little different, and that's good.
They are cut in a way that helps the ball find the hole once it passes the points and hits a facing.
The #1 trick to not rattling balls on a diamond: don't hit the rail on the way in. Like if you have a ball near the rail
(not necessarily right on it)... don't slop it in the way a lot of people subconsciously do.
Aim for the 'thin side' of the pocket and let it go off the facing and into the hole.
If you aim at the 'fat side' of the pocket and hit the rail, then the facing, it may rattle at higher speeds.
It's ok to hit the outer facing (blue line), avoid hitting the rail on the way in (red line).
2. Shoot softer. It has fast cloth and springy rails. You don't need to crush a ball.
Try not to leave yourself very straight so you can just roll balls in. This makes shotmaking easier
on any table but is especially true on diamonds.
3. The predator is not spinning balls out of the hole.
I dunno who told you that about Z2's or if you came up with it yourself, but it's a classic example
of pool players coming up with wacky equipment excuses. A ball that hits the facing will not stay up
due to some tiny difference in spin. If it stays up it's because you missed and needed to aim
closer to the heart of the pocket. Most shots are moving too fast for spin
to grab a facing and change the path in any way, and your Z2 is not wildly different from a 314.
4. Switching back and forth between shafts will hurt your game. Pick one and stick to it.
You will only kill yourself with doubt and excuses if you keep switching. I've seen it firsthand,
guys who shoot good but keep agonizing over which shaft to use. Every time they miss a ball they go
to the other shaft (instead of working on the REAL problem that caused them to miss).
Your game will only go up once you take away the shaft excuse and just stick to one until
it's part of your arm. It doesn't matter which one you choose, they both can put balls in the hole.
Just pick one, then sell, give away, or burn the other one. Do not keep it in your bag
or you will be tempted to switch back and forth, and this will hold your game back by at least a ball.
I still cry when I rattle a ball but I'm working on that (on both the rattling and the crying lol).
So, you asked for thoughts -
1. Diamond's pockets are tighter, but they're also cut a little different, and that's good.
They are cut in a way that helps the ball find the hole once it passes the points and hits a facing.
The #1 trick to not rattling balls on a diamond: don't hit the rail on the way in. Like if you have a ball near the rail
(not necessarily right on it)... don't slop it in the way a lot of people subconsciously do.
Aim for the 'thin side' of the pocket and let it go off the facing and into the hole.
If you aim at the 'fat side' of the pocket and hit the rail, then the facing, it may rattle at higher speeds.
It's ok to hit the outer facing (blue line), avoid hitting the rail on the way in (red line).
2. Shoot softer. It has fast cloth and springy rails. You don't need to crush a ball.
Try not to leave yourself very straight so you can just roll balls in. This makes shotmaking easier
on any table but is especially true on diamonds.
3. The predator is not spinning balls out of the hole.
I dunno who told you that about Z2's or if you came up with it yourself, but it's a classic example
of pool players coming up with wacky equipment excuses. A ball that hits the facing will not stay up
due to some tiny difference in spin. If it stays up it's because you missed and needed to aim
closer to the heart of the pocket. Most shots are moving too fast for spin
to grab a facing and change the path in any way, and your Z2 is not wildly different from a 314.
4. Switching back and forth between shafts will hurt your game. Pick one and stick to it.
You will only kill yourself with doubt and excuses if you keep switching. I've seen it firsthand,
guys who shoot good but keep agonizing over which shaft to use. Every time they miss a ball they go
to the other shaft (instead of working on the REAL problem that caused them to miss).
Your game will only go up once you take away the shaft excuse and just stick to one until
it's part of your arm. It doesn't matter which one you choose, they both can put balls in the hole.
Just pick one, then sell, give away, or burn the other one. Do not keep it in your bag
or you will be tempted to switch back and forth, and this will hold your game back by at least a ball.
Chris is right here. Using an LD shaft does not cause balls to "spin out of the pocket". You likely have some stroke flaws that your former table was more forgiving with.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Well first off, you went from a 8ft. to a 9ft. table. The old 8ft. had 5 inch pockets, your new table has 4 1/2 inch pockets. Plus, the pockets are cut a lil different angle. Basically,it's a tougher table than you are used to playing on.
Once you get to playing well on your new table, the other tables will be that much easier to pocket balls.
I've had my Diamond for about 6 years now, my game has jumped up noticeably
CreeDo is exactly right with the diagram he provided. I've been talking to a friend about diamonds and was saying the same thing. It's a bit like playing with snooker pockets in that you can't really touch a rail on your way to the pocket. I've played on tables the same and tighter than 4.5, and its really the pocket cut that makes the biggest difference to me.
To be honest I don't really get why people are so up on diamonds to begin with. They're certainly better than an old unkept anything, but with an odd pocket cut, (compared to almost every other table) rails that make balls come up short, and pockets that leave "scuff marks" on balls, it seems the best thing diamond does is sponser events.
I don't travel much, and I have some friends that do. I'm told I'm pretty spoiled by having tables in my area (9fter, and 7fters) that are in really good condition. We also have few diamonds around, so maybe they're just a breath of fresh air to areas unlike mine.
To be honest I don't really get why people are so up on diamonds to begin with. They're certainly better than an old unkept anything, but with an odd pocket cut, (compared to almost every other table) rails that make balls come up short, and pockets that leave "scuff marks" on balls, it seems the best thing diamond does is sponser events.
I don't travel much, and I have some friends that do. I'm told I'm pretty spoiled by having tables in my area (9fter, and 7fters) that are in really good condition. We also have few diamonds around, so maybe they're just a breath of fresh air to areas unlike mine.
haha I went through the same thing when I got my valley. The previous guy shipped the pockets tight. Theres a lot of balls you expect to roll in on a bar box that sit in the hole lol It can mess with you for sure but in the end it makes you more accurate and now when I'm at leagues the pockets look like buckets. You don't need to learn to shoot with 2 shafts you need to work on the accuracy of your stroke.
If you're used to 7' Valley tables and your 8' Connelly table then the Diamond is really going to challenge you until you work on your fundamentals. I had the same problem when one of my good friends got his own 9' Gold Crown table and I started playing on it with him once a week. I'd been playing on 7' bar boxes and my 8' Gandy table and when I went his home to play on his tight Gold Crown I was lost because my speed and aiming had gotten so bad from playing on the easy tables. I stuck with it and worked on my fundamentals, aiming, and maybe most important my shot speed. I was used to hitting balls firm, but the tight Gold Crown didn't like that unless you hit the pocket almost perfectly. Catch the rail going in at a faster than required speed and the ball just wouldn't fall. My friend was a better player than me so his ability combined with me adjusting to playing correctly made for many nights of a lot of racking playing 9 ball. After a few weeks of being tortured on the table I finally started getting my speed and aiming down to what the 9' table required and I could win some games playing him.
Once you get used to your Diamond and get your speed and fundamentals down to where you are comfortable you'll see a big difference in your game. The Diamond tables I've played on are challenging, but they will make a better player out of you and you'll have an easy time playing on other tables. Don't get discouraged and work on your speed and fundamentals. The shaft you use doesn't make that much difference as long as you are comfortable playing with it.
James
Once you get used to your Diamond and get your speed and fundamentals down to where you are comfortable you'll see a big difference in your game. The Diamond tables I've played on are challenging, but they will make a better player out of you and you'll have an easy time playing on other tables. Don't get discouraged and work on your speed and fundamentals. The shaft you use doesn't make that much difference as long as you are comfortable playing with it.
James
This game is mostly mental, By that I mean if your thought process is right on nothing much more matters. If you're thinking about missing and adjusting for one thing or another you're not going to have any fun no matter how pure your stroke is. Tables vary from one to another and most likely require some adaptation, but outside of the horrible tables the game and the tables are fairly consistent. Keeping a positive frame of mind is critical. Look at your new table as a challenge more than an obstacle to overcome. It most likely plays the way it should but you're used to playing into buckets. You'll be fine once your mind accepts that transition and it'll make you a much better player.
Again? Dammit!!:wink:
I have a gold crown at home and I can attest to the adjustment required, when moving to a Diamond.
We mortals literally have to play a different game on one, vs. the other. On a GC, one can boss the balls around, whereas on a Diamond, one must soften up and go with what the table gives.
On the Diamonds, you literally need to hit the balls at a slower speed. At higher skill levels, you will note that players play position by getting angles, as opposed to forcing the balls around with speed or spins.
I'd suggest setting up easy-ish shots and shooting them over and over again...OB less than a foot off the rails, to teach yourself to stop brushing the sides on the way in.
It was a pretty damn big investment. You will get used to it and emerge a better player, or you will smash your pool equipment and sell that bish.
Depends on the rails and the cut of the pockets. I have played on a few very well setup Gold Crowns where the pockets were about the same, although the rail reactions were different. A regular pool hall GC III is setup so just about any shot that is in the same zip code as a pocket will go in. In a table setup for good players, the tables are very compatible.
If anyone in N.E. has been to Mazin Sooni's room in Malden MA, those Gold Crowns are some of the best that I have played on. The only tables in my memory that were setup better or equal were the ones in Brighton Billiards near Boston. Equal to any Diamond I think.
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