Did Efren ruin it for everyone?

J

jjinfla

Banned
Did Efren play too good? His complete dominance of the highly touted final championship match might not be good for the IPT. The way he won took away any hope of marketing the DVD's. Or getting it to be run on TV. There is no drama. No excitement. And the American lost - badly. Perhaps they will sell in the Philippines.

Perhaps KT is re-evaluating the feasibility of making the IPT profitable and that is why we see TBA in the 2006 schedule. But then I did hear about the schedule change on Saturday before the Sunday match.

Somewhere down the line the IPT has to become profitible if it is to continue. Unless, of course, it is a tax write off for KT's other ventures. In which case, enjoy the ride.

Jake
 
Jake, much of the food for thought you raise in your post are explained in the CD of the players meeting in Orlando. If you get a chance to listen to it, it describes in detail the next few years of the IPT.

The first event in January was changed because of it being Super Bowl weekend. It was explained that the IPT would reschedule this tournament to February.

I came away from Orlando with the understanding that the "vision" of Kevin Trudeau is to take pool to a higher level via TV broadcasts and licensing which is incredibly lucrative. The World Series of Poker made millions from licensing contracts. The unique feature about this tour, compared to others in the past, is that the players themselves are stakeholders and will receive monetary gain in other ways than just playing competitively.

I still wonder how and/or why the annual BCA Open pays out $15,000 as a first-prize amount when the organization has employees enjoying 6-figure salaries.

The IPT team assembled for the King of the Hill Shootout in Florida was top class, especially the production crew. There will be some bumps in the road, so to speak, as would occur with any endeavor of this magnitude. As pool makes its way into mainstream America, it appears to me that the IPT is well-equipped to deal with any and all obstacles. If the IPT can't take pool out of the mud, with this caliber of seasoned professionals -- and let's not forget the capital commitment of $28 million -- then pool may, in fact, be doomed forever and ever more, but I think not at this juncture.

The finals match between Efren and Mike Sigel is one of many facets that went into the broadcast of the KOTH in Orlando. I'm personally anxious to see the reality portion which will bring a little personality and color to TV, something which has been sorely lacking, IMHO.

One thing for sure, the IPT has infused a great deal of excitement and positive energy into many a player, which I haven't seen in a very long time, and currently there are thousands and thousands of players who are chomping at the bit to get on the IPT tour. I overheard Pete Fusco stating that if only the IPT had come about 20 years earlier, that players everywhere would all be enjoying a much happier existence today.

JAM
 
I don't think Efren ruined anything. Perhaps a closer match would have made for better TV, but maybe not.

Does it ruin boxing when a champion knocks out another champion? Did we stop watching the young Tyson because we tired of watching him floor boxers we had respect for? No, we didn't. We, instead, chose to revel in the utter brilliance of a boxer so skilled that he could demolish even the highly worthy.

Considered in this light, the IPT final might be viewed as a chance to watch Efren, a legendary champion at the very height of his powers, crush an opponent having undeniable credentials.

I think people will choose to enjoy reveling in the brilliance of Efren and in the majesty of the event, rather than be turned off by the lopsided result.
 
Yes Jam, I listened to to the CD, a few times, and I liked what I heard.
Remember, that was made before the start of the tournament.

I also watched KT and his Natural Cures infomercial last night and I liked what he said there too. What's not to like? A better, healthier body just for reading his book. Which sells for double on TV what I paid for it on Amazon.com.

And I knew someone would mention boxing. But remember, in Boxing as the celebrities are making their grand entrance to their front row seats only to see one of the champions already on his back on the canvas, the promoters had already collected their money from TV and cable contracts. The money was paid up front. Pool is not there yet. They do not have any TV contracts and until they do I can't see them succeeding.

That's why I was really hoping for a good battle between Mike and Efren. Something that could really be pumped on TV. I didn't care who would win. Just so it was exciting and close. Unfortunately that didn't happen and I think they will be stuck with video that not many people will buy.

Perhaps they should not have had the winner break format. Maybe alternate, or each person breaks twice as in bowling.

Even a very, very rich man does not like to keep losing money. And KT is fond of saying, "it's all about the money". Of course he says it about other people. But I am sure it applies to him as well. Otherwise, why does he continue to work?

Well, I hope the February event does take place and it is better, or as good, as the Orlando event. But I am sure many people will be on pins and needles in anticipation.

Another consideration. Take away the 150 pros and their family/friends and how many actual ticket buyers were in attendance? Myself and 6 others from here. Spetty, Kay, Fred, Linda and maybe a couple dozen other real fans from what I could see.

Can't count Jack Justice and other people showcasing their cues, cases and pool objects. Or people taking pictures or writing articles.

Here you had the greatest extravaganza (in my opinion) in pool and it is ignored by the general public. Why is that? One reason is that the pool players themselves did not push it. How many of the pool players pushed tickets? Probably none. They can't each draw a half dozen fans? The seats should have been packed with fans. Yet they were mostly occupied by the 150.

I sincerely hope KT finds a way to make the IPT profitable and goes forward with the 2006 season.

Well, the next 60 days should prove interesting.

Jake
 
No ...

Efren didn't ruin it, he set the standard for the tour.
I enjoy Pool play well. The better it is, the more
exciting it is. Just think, next time it could be
Manalo vs. Efren in the finals. Who wouldn't want
to watch that?
 
jjinfla said:
Yes Jam, I listened to to the CD, a few times, and I liked what I heard.
Remember, that was made before the start of the tournament.

I also watched KT and his Natural Cures infomercial last night and I liked what he said there too. What's not to like? A better, healthier body just for reading his book. Which sells for double on TV what I paid for it on Amazon.com.

And I knew someone would mention boxing. But remember, in Boxing as the celebrities are making their grand entrance to their front row seats only to see one of the champions already on his back on the canvas, the promoters had already collected their money from TV and cable contracts. The money was paid up front. Pool is not there yet. They do not have any TV contracts and until they do I can't see them succeeding.

That's why I was really hoping for a good battle between Mike and Efren. Something that could really be pumped on TV. I didn't care who would win. Just so it was exciting and close. Unfortunately that didn't happen and I think they will be stuck with video that not many people will buy.

Perhaps they should not have had the winner break format. Maybe alternate, or each person breaks twice as in bowling.

Even a very, very rich man does not like to keep losing money. And KT is fond of saying, "it's all about the money". Of course he says it about other people. But I am sure it applies to him as well. Otherwise, why does he continue to work?

Well, I hope the February event does take place and it is better, or as good, as the Orlando event. But I am sure many people will be on pins and needles in anticipation.

Another consideration. Take away the 150 pros and their family/friends and how many actual ticket buyers were in attendance? Myself and 6 others from here. Spetty, Kay, Fred, Linda and maybe a couple dozen other real fans from what I could see.

Can't count Jack Justice and other people showcasing their cues, cases and pool objects. Or people taking pictures or writing articles.

Here you had the greatest extravaganza (in my opinion) in pool and it is ignored by the general public. Why is that? One reason is that the pool players themselves did not push it. How many of the pool players pushed tickets? Probably none. They can't each draw a half dozen fans? The seats should have been packed with fans. Yet they were mostly occupied by the 150.

I sincerely hope KT finds a way to make the IPT profitable and goes forward with the 2006 season.

Well, the next 60 days should prove interesting.

Jake
Click to expand...

Beware, this may take a while to catch on. Sure the players could have pushed more tickets. Don't be too tough on them. Some are just a bit overwhelmed by all this. Pool has been the same old thing for many years and now this comes along.
Could the finals have been better? Yes! Still, I don't think a lot of people realise the pressure put on himself. There was a lot to lose. Sure he made good money out of it, but his past was put on the line, he is the one who had to sit all week long and wait and wait and wait.
The IPT brings rapid changes to this game/sport and everyone will get aclimated and quickly. There are always problems to be dealt with and there are solutions to those problems. With the IPT format and business plan, the game is out of the hands of the players and controled by big business. That to me is the most positive change of all.
I have never in my life missed a ball from the rail.
 
jjinfla said:
Yes Jam, I listened to to the CD, a few times, and I liked what I heard.
Remember, that was made before the start of the tournament.

I also watched KT and his Natural Cures infomercial last night and I liked what he said there too. What's not to like? A better, healthier body just for reading his book. Which sells for double on TV what I paid for it on Amazon.com.

And I knew someone would mention boxing. But remember, in Boxing as the celebrities are making their grand entrance to their front row seats only to see one of the champions already on his back on the canvas, the promoters had already collected their money from TV and cable contracts. The money was paid up front. Pool is not there yet. They do not have any TV contracts and until they do I can't see them succeeding.

That's why I was really hoping for a good battle between Mike and Efren. Something that could really be pumped on TV. I didn't care who would win. Just so it was exciting and close. Unfortunately that didn't happen and I think they will be stuck with video that not many people will buy.

Perhaps they should not have had the winner break format. Maybe alternate, or each person breaks twice as in bowling.

Even a very, very rich man does not like to keep losing money. And KT is fond of saying, "it's all about the money". Of course he says it about other people. But I am sure it applies to him as well. Otherwise, why does he continue to work?

Well, I hope the February event does take place and it is better, or as good, as the Orlando event. But I am sure many people will be on pins and needles in anticipation.

Another consideration. Take away the 150 pros and their family/friends and how many actual ticket buyers were in attendance? Myself and 6 others from here. Spetty, Kay, Fred, Linda and maybe a couple dozen other real fans from what I could see.

Can't count Jack Justice and other people showcasing their cues, cases and pool objects. Or people taking pictures or writing articles.

Here you had the greatest extravaganza (in my opinion) in pool and it is ignored by the general public. Why is that? One reason is that the pool players themselves did not push it. How many of the pool players pushed tickets? Probably none. They can't each draw a half dozen fans? The seats should have been packed with fans. Yet they were mostly occupied by the 150.

I sincerely hope KT finds a way to make the IPT profitable and goes forward with the 2006 season.

Well, the next 60 days should prove interesting.

Jake
Click to expand...

Beware, this may take a while to catch on. Sure the players could have pushed more tickets. Don't be too tough on them. Some are just a bit overwhelmed by all this. Pool has been the same old thing for many years and now this comes along.
Could the finals have been better? Yes! Still, I don't think a lot of people realise the pressure Mike put on himself. There was a lot to lose. Sure he made good money out of it, but his past was put on the line, he is the one who had to sit all week long and wait and wait and wait.
The IPT brings rapid changes to this game/sport and everyone will get aclimated and quickly. There are always problems to be dealt with and there are solutions to those problems. With the IPT format and business plan, the game is out of the hands of the players and controled by big business. That to me is the most positive change of all.
I have never in my life missed a ball from the rail.
 
jjinfla said:
Yes Jam, I listened to to the CD, a few times, and I liked what I heard.
Remember, that was made before the start of the tournament.
Click to expand...

The event in Orlando was not actually the start of the IPT tour, as it relates to rankings and tour cards, et cetera. It was a King of the Hill Shootout exhibition. The players meeting, though, was the FIRST time that anyone heard about the IPT tour in its entirety from the IPT staff, and the players were given the opportunity to ask questions and learn more about what's up ahead.

jjinfla said:
...Another consideration. Take away the 150 pros and their family/friends and how many actual ticket buyers were in attendance? Myself and 6 others from here. Spetty, Kay, Fred, Linda and maybe a couple dozen other real fans from what I could see....
Click to expand...

Unlike high-profile competitions in the past here in the States, the IPT tournaments will be geared for TV and video productions. Many independent promoters who hold pool tournaments currently do depend on the gate for ticket sales. The success of the IPT, the way I understand it, is not dependent on the ticket buyers in attendance. It's all about the image projected on TV. That is why every single match was recorded.

jjinfla said:
Here you had the greatest extravaganza (in my opinion) in pool and it is ignored by the general public. Why is that? One reason is that the pool players themselves did not push it. How many of the pool players pushed tickets? Probably none. They can't each draw a half dozen fans? The seats should have been packed with fans. Yet they were mostly occupied by the 150.
Click to expand...

The pool players will play a key role in the popularity of the TV and/or video productions, but I don't believe that it is incumbent upon them as pool players to seek out prospective attendees. Hopefully, when the TV and/or video productions are released, the popularity of pool will grow here in the U.S. and abroad. I believe this is the aim of the IPT, to target prospective pool fans and enthusiasts with the finished product of the broadcasts and videos, as opposed to achieving success by the actual attendance at an IPT tournament. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 
Cancelled for wrong reason

JAM said:
Jake, much of the food for thought you raise in your post are explained in the CD of the players meeting in Orlando. If you get a chance to listen to it, it describes in detail the next few years of the IPT.

The first event in January was changed because of it being Super Bowl weekend. It was explained that the IPT would reschedule this tournament to February.

I came away from Orlando with the understanding that the "vision" of Kevin Trudeau is to take pool to a higher level via TV broadcasts and licensing which is incredibly lucrative. The World Series of Poker made millions from licensing contracts. The unique feature about this tour, compared to others in the past, is that the players themselves are stakeholders and will receive monetary gain in other ways than just playing competitively.

I still wonder how and/or why the annual BCA Open pays out $15,000 as a first-prize amount when the organization has employees enjoying 6-figure salaries.

The IPT team assembled for the King of the Hill Shootout in Florida was top class, especially the production crew. There will be some bumps in the road, so to speak, as would occur with any endeavor of this magnitude. As pool makes its way into mainstream America, it appears to me that the IPT is well-equipped to deal with any and all obstacles. If the IPT can't take pool out of the mud, with this caliber of seasoned professionals -- and let's not forget the capital commitment of $28 million -- then pool may, in fact, be doomed forever and ever more, but I think not at this juncture.

The finals match between Efren and Mike Sigel is one of many facets that went into the broadcast of the KOTH in Orlando. I'm personally anxious to see the reality portion which will bring a little personality and color to TV, something which has been sorely lacking, IMHO.

One thing for sure, the IPT has infused a great deal of excitement and positive energy into many a player, which I haven't seen in a very long time, and currently there are thousands and thousands of players who are chomping at the bit to get on the IPT tour. I overheard Pete Fusco stating that if only the IPT had come about 20 years earlier, that players everywhere would all be enjoying a much happier existence today.

JAM
Click to expand...

Not trying to be a nit picker but if he told me that was reason for cancelling I would have questioned it immediately. SUPER BOWL WEEKEND IS FEB. 4-5
not in January.
 
nfty9er said:
Not trying to be a nit picker but if he told me that was reason for cancelling I would have questioned it immediately. SUPER BOWL WEEKEND IS FEB. 4-5
not in January.
Click to expand...



UH__OH???????????
 
nfty9er said:
Not trying to be a nit picker but if he told me that was reason for cancelling I would have questioned it immediately. SUPER BOWL WEEKEND IS FEB. 4-5
not in January.
Click to expand...

I do apologize for giving the wrong impression, nfty9er. It was one of a couple reasons given for the date change, but I can't remember the others stated.

I don't know how long one of these IPT tournaments will take. The KOTH Shootout with 44 players took 5 days, and the future IPT events with 150 participants may take longer.

I did overhear some comments from the players that they need to be in good shape, healthy, and strong, as some of the tournaments days may last from 10:00 a.m. until 10:00 p.m.. Endurance will be play a role for sure.

When Efren started out on Level 3 at the KOTH, I think he played a little cold, and some of his opponents, aside from his fellow Hall of Famers, were all warmed up, having made it through Levels 1 and 2. When Ray Martin pulled way out ahead of Efren and got on the Hill, the crowd was glued to their table. Folks were whispering, "This is a BIG upset." Ray, BTW, played damn good, but he too was playing a little cold. It wasn't long before Efren caught a gear and "adjusted" to the equipment.

The best part of the finals match between Challenger Efren Reyes and then-King of the Hill Mike Sigel was very last game for the $200,000 win. Efren made a really sweet out, quite an appropriate ending. Everybody at that instance couldn't help but recognize his excellence. Bustamante, who was sitting right behind Efren keeping his score during the finals, agreed that Efren really shined at that moment. The name of that finals room, I found out later, was "The Mothership." It kind of looked like a spaceship, the way it was set up. (LOL)

Interestingly, as popular as Efren Reyes is with pool folk around the world, the majority of the spectators were cheering loudly for Sigel, "Come on, Mike," et cetera. I have never seen the usually reserved Johnny Archer so animated before, but he was really enjoying himself to the fullest and happened to be one of the most vocal railbirds. I happened to be sitting next to Charlie Bryant for a spell, and some fan seated behind Hillbilly kept saying he'd back ANYBODY against Mike Sigel for $100,000, over and over again. I mean, this guy kept heckling. Hillbilly got his nostrils open for a few minutes, exchanging words with the barking railbird, but soon began to ignore him. Sigel seemed to be the crowd's favorite!

JAM
 
JAM said:
some fan seated behind Hillbilly kept saying he'd back ANYBODY against Mike Sigel for $100,000, over and over again. I mean, this guy kept heckling. Hillbilly got his nostrils open for a few minutes, exchanging words with the barking railbird, but soon began to ignore him. Sigel seemed to be the crowd's favorite!

JAM
Click to expand...
LOL, you didn't happen to notice anyone calling that fan "angry white" did you?? :p If it wasn't him, then there's a 2nd angry white out there and that's scary!
 
JAM said:
Jake, much of the food for thought you raise in your post are explained in the CD of the players meeting in Orlando. If you get a chance to listen to it, it describes in detail the next few years of the IPT.
Click to expand...
I am just wondering, if anyone that has a copy of this CD, would be willing to format it to MP3 and upload it to a file sharing website. I would like to listen to it.

Thanks,
Tracy
 
RSB-Refugee said:
I am just wondering, if anyone that has a copy of this CD, would be willing to format it to MP3 and upload it to a file sharing website. I would like to listen to it.

Thanks,
Tracy
Click to expand...
Tracy, you're just FULL of great ideas this wkend! :p I too would like to hear the CD.
 
Timberly said:
LOL, you didn't happen to notice anyone calling that fan "angry white" did you?? :p If it wasn't him, then there's a 2nd angry white out there and that's scary!
Click to expand...

Hi Timberly,
Do u know that ``Angry White`` who wears gold colored jewelry like a raper?
 
vagabond said:
Hi Timberly,
Do u know that ``Angry White`` who wears gold colored jewelry like a raper?
Click to expand...
Yes, big guy that lives in the Atlanta area if I'm not mistaken. Funny at times but annoying at times too. He usually has on a baseball jersey and yes, he wears big gold chains like a lot of the rappers do. ;)
 
jake,,,,,,

sports is defined by dynasties. now,,,while efren's "reign" may not necesssarily qualify as a dynastiy,,, he does what all such great performers do. he raises the ARTISTIC bar to which everyone strives. without such greats, sports settles into mediocrity.

i think EVERYONE appreciates these artistic performances. they get to see how the game should be played.

i don't think such dominance will have causal effect on the game's effort to reach to the general public. the general public will like pool because of other factors,,,,,more commercial factors. the game has always looked too easy for consumers, imo, and the ipt will just have to educate the general public, or at least make them aware of what greatness means. this is all promotion.
 
All I was suggesting is that if the match had been closer it would be a lot easier to promote it on TV. People just don't like lopsided games. In football if a team jumps ahead by 20 points all the sponsors are in agony because they can hear all the channels being switched to another station.

It would have been ideal if Efren won the first match 8-6. Then lost 8-7. And then the final match went back and forth until one of them won.
That would keep the people watching and talking about it for a long time.

It will take some genius to make this match interesting to the public.
But, who knows, they seemed to have done pretty good with the Mike and Loree match.

Jake
 
Timberly said:
Yes, big guy that lives in the Atlanta area if I'm not mistaken. Funny at times but annoying at times too. He usually has on a baseball jersey and yes, he wears big gold chains like a lot of the rappers do. ;)
Click to expand...


Yep, that's Angry. He's definitely a one-of-a-kind. I've only talked to him a couple of times but he doesn't appear to be someone that hides his opinions. He'll tell you what he thinks even if it isn't really what he thinks.
 
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