Did I just get Hustled?

[rackmsuckr]

Well, for me, it is pretty simple. I'm a spazz when it comes to flipping - it rolls 2 tables over or goes in a pocket. I call, but I wait until it's in the air. I will not call first and let them manipulate it in the air. You usually get one of those pansy tosses when they know beforehand.

I also call the OPPOSITE of what is showing while sitting on their thumb. If you are the one flipping, you probably shouldn't show what is up, if you believe my method. Most flippers toss about a foot in the air and in my experience, unless it starts rolling, it usually lands on the table the opposite of what was showing. It has increased my odds of winning the flip considerably if they show me what it starts out with. Of course, in 8 ball, it may not be in my favor to break. lol (I get a good spread but don't make a ball and they run out. Grrrr.) On the other hand, I did just win most break and runs for the season in my all-male league.

 

[CamposCues]

Betting with Bullies

It looks like you got bullied more than anything. I hate when people nag you to bet at pool, coin tosses, arm wresting, 3 card, etc and after you give in and actually somehow win, they don't want to pay or try to bully you. I hate that crap, it's pretty much my pet peeve. I've had a several run ins with these types of people, as almost everyone has. I'm sure most of you will probably think I'm immature or a fool for how I have always handled it. I have a strict policy to punch these jackoffs. Every time I've run into someone who welches or more to the point tries to bully their way off with "my" cash, I've punched them in the face until I've gotten my money or a black eye of my own. I've won some and lost some but none of them ever got out with out a scratch and I guarantee I made them think twice about pulling that sh*t again. I'm not a big or tough guy by any means but I just can't take some clown thinking he's going to take my money and I'm going to let it happen. Oh, I did get pistol whipped once and that sucked...long story. I also realize I'm from a part of the country where a fist fight is a fist fight and that this approach in many parts of the country would have gotten me shot years ago. Any way I would have drilled that guy square in the nose before he ever got those hundreds any where near his pocket. Go Huskers!!!

 

[alstl]

I just got back from an out of town pool hall(away for holiday) and someone attempted to hustle me.


He was laying it on really thick(fake back story, the whole 9 yards), but since I was almost leaving and didn't care since I knew I wasnt playing I didnt call him on it.

Anyway, before I went I could tell he at least wanted a small score so he wanted to bet me $100 for $100 on a coin flip(my own coin on pool table).

I won twice in a row and was up $200 when I decided I'd call it quits(ok I'm a bit of a nit but 50/50 for $200 too much for me, plus he knew I was suppose to leave like 20 minutes earlier and was stringing me on to gamble).

He got a little ansy and then looked over at the coin(legit coin), but wanted to test it since I won "Each and every time we played"(I figured this was his "out" if he lost tosses over and over).

Then, and I swear it all looked legit, we took turns flipping the coin over the now contested money(he said he thought I was scamming him) and it came up heads, then heads again, and then heads yet again.

It kept coming up heads for 8 times after the 2 we were betting on(10 in a row straight).

Now, I know the odds of this so I wasnt concerned but he was playing it up like he wasnt going to pay(he had taken money off the table including my winnings). He however acted as if he was convinced it was a trick coin or something.

Finally seeing as I was out of town and he looked pretty serious(plus I was alone and it looked like he had a road buddy), I talked him into giving me my $100 back, as the second bet was with his own money(my winnings) and I didnt care about it.... and just calling it even and I left.

So anyway, is this a common scam(betting on coins and then blowing up?) or what?

Can anyone provide more info on this scam or help explain what happened as I'm a bit confused on how much he was playing me.


Finally, and I don't bet very much at all(I'm not that good), but even though money was on the table, he snatched it and didnt want to pay.... other than taking a picture and exposing him on as many pool forums and whatnot as a hustler/road player and also stealing if he doesnt win, is there anything short of violence to induce someone to pay?

Thanks!

You don't bet much but you lay $100 on a coin flip?

 

[Donovan]

I know some of you may have answered these quotes already, but since I wrote them as I read them, I will post it anyway. Funny some minds think alike.

Isnt the odds of each individual coin toss 50/50. So even if all of your opponents call heads, isnt the odds still equal for that individual flip. At first I was thinking your math is right, but now I am not so sure....

Read it again, that is what I said. Read all the facts first and then you should get it.

The chances of heads or tails is 50/50....But the odds of flipping 8 in a row or more heads is not 50 /50.. Eventually a tails has to hit and the likely hood is increased with each heads flipped....The odds somebody might run out of money is a better bet...

That is the fallacy. The odds of each flip are still 50/50. The coin doesn't just sit there and think it has to flip different or catch up because of what happened before. Hence one of the thinking process people think when watching Roulette. This is why they show you the last 10 numbers. People think it has to even up, NO IT DOESN'T even if there was no green. Don't fall for that stuff.

Donovan's assertion that you can use people's tendency to call heads against them (since they'll call heads 70% of the time and it will only come up 50% of the time) is incorrect.
-Andrew

You may not win an exactly 20%, but I can guarantee you that you will win more than you will lose, if you flip the coin. Some may border 18% some may border 22% or whatever. The law of averages proves I can't be wrong.

But you don't have to believe me. Start tracking this yourself. Keep track of all the flips you make and how many times heads was called. I did this for statistics class to prove my know-it-all (KIA) Psychology professor I could beat the coin flip in everyday life. The KIA told me it was not possible. I showed him that he forgot to think about the psychology of people and the superstitions of the human mind. LOL

I then did this for 30 days and asked tons of people. I kept track of just the one flip against different people. I wish to God by computer back then didn't go belly up and lose my study forever. But I did prove the theory. I remember that I had people calling heads 78% of the time and that I had a winning percentage of 26%. Keep in mind that it was done at a college and using students and townies from rural America.

The coin flip was not a 50/50 split at the end of the study, which proves that tails does not have to come up after 10 heads in a row. I'm sorry, but I don't remember how many total flips happened. I think it was in the 400 and some range.

 

[Cardinal2B]

I also realize I'm from a part of the country where a fist fight is a fist fight and that this approach in many parts of the country would have gotten me shot years ago. ...Go Huskers!

Last November I played in a MSBL baseball tournament for folks over 48 (yes, hardball). This guy was catching without a chest protector. Now, I know pitchers over 48 don't throw as hard as Roger Clemens, but still, foul balls going into your chest could be pretty painful. So, we yelled over from our bench "Hey, you forgot your chest protector! You need a chest protector man!"

He replied, by way of explanation, "I'm from Nebraska."

Those Huskers are pretty tough.

 

[CamposCues]

Huskers

Last November I played in a MSBL baseball tournament for folks over 48 (yes, hardball). This guy was catching without a chest protector. Now, I know pitchers over 48 don't throw as hard as Roger Clemens, but still, foul balls going into your chest could be pretty painful. So, we yelled over from our bench "Hey, you forgot your chest protector! You need a chest protector man!"

He replied, by way of explanation, "I'm from Nebraska."

Those Huskers are pretty tough.

I hope they are tonight. I'm a big Husker fan but not overly optomistic about our chances against Michigan. They have a better team. I hope it's a good game and not a blow out. Go Huskers!!!

 

[Masayoshi]

I know some of you may have answered these quotes already, but since I wrote them as I read them, I will post it anyway. Funny some minds think alike.



Read it again, that is what I said. Read all the facts first and then you should get it.



That is the fallacy. The odds of each flip are still 50/50.

The coin doesn't just sit there and think it has to flip different or catch up because of what happened before. Hence one of the thinking process people think when watching Roulette. This is why they show you the last 10 numbers. People think it has to even up, NO IT DOESN'T even if there was no green. Don't fall for that stuff.



You may not win an exactly 20%, but I can guarantee you that you will win more than you will lose, if you flip the coin. Some may border 18% some may border 22% or whatever. The law of averages proves I can't be wrong.

But you don't have to believe me. Start tracking this yourself. Keep track of all the flips you make and how many times heads was called. I did this for statistics class to prove my know-it-all (KIA) Psychology professor I could beat the coin flip in everyday life. The KIA told me it was not possible. I showed him that he forgot to think about the psychology of people and the superstitions of the human mind. LOL

I then did this for 30 days and asked tons of people. I kept track of just the one flip against different people. I wish to God by computer back then didn't go belly up and lose my study forever. But I did prove the theory. I remember that I had people calling heads 78% of the time and that I had a winning percentage of 26%. Keep in mind that it was done at a college and using students and townies from rural America.

The coin flip was not a 50/50 split at the end of the study, which proves that tails does not have to come up after 10 heads in a row. I'm sorry, but I don't remember how many total flips happened. I think it was in the 400 and some range.

do you actually believe that, or are you just trying to BS people?

just because you win more than 50% of your coin flips over a short period doesnt mean that the probability of winning a coin toss isnt 50/50. even if your opponent calls heads only 70% of the time, after infinite trials, he will win half of those times (35%), and he will win half of the times calls tails (15%) which makes for a 50% win ratio. there is nothing you can do to change this short of using a trick coin or knowing how to flip to your advantage.

 

[OldHasBeen]

The bottom line on a coin flip is..........

50 - 50
The ONLY advantage that anyone can have (over a very long period of time) is to be the flipper and not the caller. The caller has the onus to call it exactly 50 heads & 50 tails.

TY & GL

 

[Donovan]

do you actually believe that, or are you just trying to BS people?

just because you win more than 50% of your coin flips over a short period doesnt mean that the probability of winning a coin toss isnt 50/50. even if your opponent calls heads only 70% of the time, after infinite trials, he will win half of those times (35%), and he will win half of the times calls tails (15%) which makes for a 50% win ratio. there is nothing you can do to change this short of using a trick coin or knowing how to flip to your advantage.

I never argued the fact that a coin toss isn't 50/50. I am the first one who stated that. in this thread. Reread the original post. You keep saying short term. I said lifetime...(God, I hope that isn't short term )

You are just plain not getting it or I am not explaining it right. Instead of debating it, go try the experiment yourself. Seeing is believing. I will admit, when I argued the fact in class with the professor, I wasn't positive. I just wanted to see if I could roll him on the subject. But then I actually went and tried it out. Oh and for the record, this is not BS. Or maybe it is if BS stands for Betting Sure!

He gave me a D in the class even though my work was in the B range, not that I really cared. [Put your favorite slam here. ]

 

[Donovan]

50 - 50
The ONLY advantage that anyone can have (over a very long period of time) is to be the flipper and not the caller. The caller has the onus to call it exactly 50 heads & 50 tails.

TY & GL

Thanks for the re-statement. LOL Maybe they will believe you.

I was only trying to be helpful and sharing to my brothers and sisters. I had no idea anyone would not believe me or maybe not get it.

 

[JoeyA]

I once saw a man who could flip a silver dollar into the air and who had the ability of making the coin come up heads or tails virtually every time. He always caught the coin in his hand flat.

I even know someone on this forum who can flip a quarter in the air and they can determine the outcome virtually every time.
JoeyA

OHB is right on with his answer, but this actually could have been
the ole 'intimidation' hustle where they see how it goes, and if they
win they laugh and joke around about being lucky, but if they come
out a loser, they try various intimidation techniques (including using
a buddy or two) to get you to give there money back so they don't
lose anything. This involves questioning the process, accusing you
of using a rigged coin or of being an asshole or cheating them in some
way or some other con, but their purpose is to get their money back.
YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER YOU ARE BEING PLAYED OR NOT.

One suggestion: If you flip in the future, do NOT use a common coin.
They might be planning on switching coins on you at a certain point, like
a two headed coin. At least use a half dollar or silver dollar, or I got
a anniversary coin from the VNEA one year in Vegas that I use to
carry all the time.

 

[vagabond]

Well, for me, it is pretty simple. I'm a spazz when it comes to flipping - it rolls 2 tables over or goes in a pocket. I call, but I wait until it's in the air. I will not call first and let them manipulate it in the air. You usually get one of those pansy tosses when they know beforehand.

I also call the OPPOSITE of what is showing while sitting on their thumb. If you are the one flipping, you probably shouldn't show what is up, if you believe my method. Most flippers toss about a foot in the air and in my experience, unless it starts rolling, it usually lands on the table the opposite of what was showing. It has increased my odds of winning the flip considerably if they show me what it starts out with. Of course, in 8 ball, it may not be in my favor to break. lol (I get a good spread but don't make a ball and they run out. Grrrr.) On the other hand, I did just win most break and runs for the season in my all-male league.

hello,
It looks like u figured out the technique.
I will flip any coin you want-penny,nickel,dime,quarter and I will toss it more than 3 feet high and I will beat you 75 - 80% of the times.U wanna play?

 

[OldHasBeen]

Are you going to be at the DCC?

hello,
It looks like u figured out the technique.
I will flip any coin you want-penny,nickel,dime,quarter and I will toss it more than 3 feet high and I will beat you 75 - 80% of the times.U wanna play?

Just wondering if you'll be at the DCC?

TY & GL

 

[vagabond]

Just wondering if you'll be at the DCC?

TY & GL

No. I am not coming .I am old and feeble.I can`t see well.I can`t play a lick but I still can flip the coin and make it land the way I want.Thanks for the inquiry.

 

[rackmsuckr]

hello,
It looks like u figured out the technique.
I will flip any coin you want-penny,nickel,dime,quarter and I will toss it more than 3 feet high and I will beat you 75 - 80% of the times.U wanna play?

Let's see, if it goes 3 feet high, then I need to reverse it, then back again...yay, it's the same. Although, sometimes it's not the height, but the speed of the flick. Are you hustling me??? All I know is that it works more often than it should on pure statistics.

 

[lamar25]

The odds are not 50/50 because it was proven, for a quarter anyway, that
the head side of a quarter from the horizontal middle is heavier than the
tail half, which would cause a tendency for the head side to end up on
the bottom more than 50/50 if the coin lands on a flat surface, and not the
hand.

A flipped coin does not have a confined point of rotation (re: horizontal middle) , and will rotate at the midpoint of it's mass weight, meaning the odds would be 50/50.

Have you ever had to have your wheels & tires balanced that have a confined point of rotation?

Lamar

 

[vagabond]

Let's see, if it goes 3 feet high, then I need to reverse it, then back again...yay, it's the same. Although, sometimes it's not the height, but the speed of the flick. Are you hustling me??? All I know is that it works more often than it should on pure statistics.

I will flip it any speed u want and still will win.
I am good with coin toss, giving `mud `racks ( u can inspect them and u will not find any violation of any rules), defensive breaks but I can`t beat any one in the actual game.I always loose to women/girls/ladies playing 8 ball , 9 ball.

 

[CamposCues]

Coin Toss

I'm not trying to slow down the highly exciting coin toss debate but I'm hammered and the Huskers beat Michigan. It took a few bad calls but the Huskers won and it was a great game. Go Huskers!!!

 

[MacGyver]

WOW there is a lot of misinformation being put out... here are some FACTS:

1: I don't bet much, but the first bet was weighted and the second was basically with his money... and thats when I quit... original bet was 40:90 but he made it 100-100 for next, so he had many outs to get 10 of my dollars at the least, 40 at the most.... I understand the thinking behind it(if you keep more than doubleing the bet then you are practically assured of getting money at the end of a run of flips)

2: I am a proffesional magician and it was my own half dollar(from the bank) and it was completely legit as far as double headed and switches... believe me I am well versed and could have cheated if I had wanted to(I don't cheat though).

3: The probablility of a coin flipped is actually about 51% that it will land on the original side it was flipped from. please read this article:

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2004/june9/diaconis-69.html

And there are math/physics papers that have the actual proofs.... it would take thousands of tosses to detect this bias.

4: This is to many: OFFERING ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS ALL LOGIC, PHYSICS, AND MATH IS JUST STUPID AND STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesnt matter if you "tested" it or "personally experianced" it. Unless you've conducted scienctific test or a proof in math to back it up, PLEASE stop spreading around nonsense in this forum and others.

The probability of a coin is for all intents and purposes 50/50, and even though you may have noticed a streak in one way(that is the thing about random, MANY streaks) there are just as many in the other direction so don't claim to know any "inside information" that goes against all science.

If out of 1,000,000 throws, you call head 0% of the time, 70% of the time or 100% of the time, you'll still win about 50% of the tosses.

5: Spinning coins is actually very different than flipping and not near 50%... coins actually ARE heavier on one side and when spun and then let come to rest, there is a large bias... but as previously mentioned this does not affect flipping.

6: There IS a method(that I know of) to toss a coin that you can control the outcome with a legit coin and even having someone else catch the coin(or table). It's 100% surefire with them catching and very very very close to that with a table or floor(obviously you can get a weird bounce every now and again but not often). I know this method, but as said I legit tossed it and I was tossing AND calling.(also I have double head/tails, weighted and magnetic(like dice) at my disposal and actually on my person, so I don't believe I would have been fooled if there was anything going on)


Anyway, I know he was doing an initial weight to get me playing and then more than doubling each bet so that he would always come out a winner, but I wasnt falling for that(I kept it either less than doubling or lower).

I guess he just bluffs when he loses 2-4 in a row, but damn the coin coming up 10 times heads threw me too and the only reason I gave it a second thought.

Hope this clarifies, and please don't listen to any stories about coins not being close to 50/50.... yes for weeks someone might notice a trend, but that is just how humans are, we try to find patterns in chaos.... but a coin flip IS near 50/50(actually 51% for starting side as published by Persi Diaconis).


Hope this clears some things up, if anything else let me know....

edit: I just wanted to say thanks to Tom and others than have provided good info and advice... Yes I'll be more careful and suspicious when gambling in the future...

 

[Masayoshi]

I never argued the fact that a coin toss isn't 50/50. I am the first one who stated that. in this thread. Reread the original post. You keep saying short term. I said lifetime...(God, I hope that isn't short term )

You are just plain not getting it or I am not explaining it right. Instead of debating it, go try the experiment yourself. Seeing is believing. I will admit, when I argued the fact in class with the professor, I wasn't positive. I just wanted to see if I could roll him on the subject. But then I actually went and tried it out. Oh and for the record, this is not BS. Or maybe it is if BS stands for Betting Sure!

He gave me a D in the class even though my work was in the B range, not that I really cared. [Put your favorite slam here. ]

ok...now i am almost certain you are BSing.