Did I make a bad call as Tournament Director?

[Mick]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

UPDATE: I may have made a terrible call.

I am good friends with a person Vic explained the situation to after he left, and this friend has clarified the situation, as Vic sees it.

Vic's CLARIFIED version: Bob runs the table to the ball before the 8, the 4. While potting the 4, bob crashes into the 8 with the cueball, causing the cueball to go in. The cueball colliding with the 8 ALSO CAUSES THE 8 TO GO IN. Vic then sweeps the table as the game is clearly over.

Well... dammit. That makes a lot more sense now. In my defense, Vic continued to describe the results of the shot as "Bob scratched on the 8", Which in my mind meant, "Cueball went in while intentionally potting the 8." The confusingly colored 4-ball certainly didn't help my understanding of the situation. I do now understand why he got mad and was calling us cheaters.

 

[Zerksies]

Sounds like the one player isn't paying attention to the game. Because paying attention to what ball your opponent is shooting is very important. It a big thing knowing they are pocketing the 8 or the ball before it. It he said she said crap, unless you have someone that actually witnessed it. replay the game.

 

[Kentucky Rack Man]

When my reading of this topic began in a short time my mind went to play the game over. Both appear honest and reputable. I think decision was fair. You could go back to the slow motion instant replay lol

 

[bbb]

someone was lying but you made the correct decision based on the evidence you had
jmho

 

[Cornerman]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

I’ve got my thoughts, and Vic ain’t gonna like it.

 

[cookie man]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

Vic made the mistake. He should pay the price. Loss of that game

 

[buckshotshoey]

Replay of game is the only decision you could make given the circumstances.

If there was video evidence, or you actually seen what happened, then loss of game for Vic.

 

[Island Drive]

What does ''swiping the table mean''?

 

[Mick]

What does ''swiping the table mean''?

Pulled in the balls as you would to rack a new game. Not done in anger or frustration as far as I could tell. I believe he used his cue to do this.

 

[Poolplaya9]

With a he said/she said like this, and with no solid evidence to support either side, I can't see any other ruling than to replay the game.

This *might* be one of those ultra rare scenarios where you consider seeking out an independent witness to help inform your ruling though. If there was somebody up close who had been following the game and saw which ball Bob shot, and they are 100% confident about it, and I was 100% certain they were not affiliated in any way with either player, this might be one of the exceptionally rare cases where I might let that influence my ruling since it is something that would be very difficult for them to be mistaken about (would never even consider using a third party for something like a disputed foul though).

While it doesn't affect the ruling, assuming this was truly an honest mistake on one of their parts, Bob's version seems more likely to be what actually happened. If Bob was shooting the 8 he would know it. Vic on the other hand could more easily be mistaken since he wasn't at the table and maybe wasn't paying as much attention as he should have been, or perhaps the 4 could have looked like the 8 from where he was sitting etc. And if Bob was actually shooing at the 8, he wouldn't have sat down right after the shot as he would have known the match was over and would have been walking over to shake his opponents hand, or standing there cursing his bad luck/execution that cost him the match or something else besides going back to his chair expecting the match to be continuing. It seems most likely that Vic either made the mistake, or tried to pull a move.

 

[rexus31]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

If Vic clams the 8B was pocketed yet it was on the table when you arrived, is that not enough evidence to surmise Vice wasn't paying attention and "swiped" the table in error, thus forfeiting the game?

 

[The_JV]

Vic is clearly in the wrong. For his story to hold water....:

Bob would have known he lost game and that the 8 was no longer on the table, but yet pretended that Vic still needed to run his balls down to nothing...? I guess hoping to convince Vic that he inadvertently knocked the 8 in at some point while cleaning up the table...? ...and once Bob realized his ploy to deceive Vic had failed, he switched tactics to a ruse in which he claims the 8 was actually still on the table when Vic swiped the balls and put it back on the playing surface while no one was looking..?...lol

Knowing how pool players are. I don't necessarily disagree with the call to replay the rack. However based on what you've described. Vic clearly wasn't paying attention and for his story to ring true a whole bunch of various forms of bs had to have been done by who we're characterizing as a "player with integrity".

If I had to make the call. I would have sided with Bob and awarded him the game.

 

[buckshotshoey]

With a he said/she said like this, and with no solid evidence to support either side, I can't see any other ruling than to replay the game.

This *might* be one of those ultra rare scenarios where you consider seeking out an independent witness to help inform your ruling though. If there was somebody up close who had been following the game and saw which ball Bob shot, and they are 100% confident about it, and I was 100% certain they were not affiliated in any way with either player, this might be one of the exceptionally rare cases where I might let that influence my ruling since it is something that would be very difficult for them to be mistaken about (would never even consider using a third party for something like a disputed foul though).

Unless the witness you talk to happened to buy into a Calcutta. You just never know. Too many people around with zero integrity.

Correct call to replay game.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

Sounds like the correct and fairest ruling to me, since you or apparently no one else witnessed exactly what happened.

 

[Poolhall60561]

I would of ruled, replay the game.
right or wrong that’s the ruling, move on
the player that trashed you on social media is a dick
It’s just a game, get over it

 

[dquarasr]

Curious: which player is trashing you?

 

[thenaturalpoolplayer]

Here's a situation that came up tonight. One of the players is trashing me on social media as being biased, and I don't think it's deserved.

Situation: Vic and Bob are in a vnea 8-ball race to 2. Vic is up 1-0, and the second game has a mishap at the end. There is some arguing and confusion before I get called over.

Bob's version: He has run the table to the ball before the 8, a dark purple 4 ball. He cuts in the 4, but manages to scratch. He sits down as Vic approaches the table and, instead of taking ball in hand, Vic swipes the balls as if to rack a new rack.

Vic's version: Bob runs the table to the 8. While making the 8, Bob scratches. Vic swipes the table to rack the balls for the next players.

Both players have integrity, and I'd expect neither to lie or cheat. When I get to the scene, some balls have been brought up from the return in the confusion, and the 8 is currently on the table.

I rule that the only fair decision would be to replay the game, as the situation stems from an honest mistake by one of the players, and it is impossible to determine which player is mistaken.

Do you see any other possible ruling here?

Either way I thought scratching on the 8 was ball in hand not a loss...so in this case wouldn't it have been spotted? If not then pull the video as it is imperative we get the call right for this crucial league game.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Unless the witness you talk to happened to buy into a Calcutta. You just never know. Too many people around with zero integrity.

Correct call to replay game.

That's why I said if you were 100% certain they had no affiliation of any kind. If there was a calcutta, particularly if you didn't know who bought who, you certainly couldn't be 100% sure there wasn't some possible affiliation. If you don't know all the people very well you couldn't be sure either. Etc.

 

[Mick]

Curious: which player is trashing you?

I intentionally left this out so as to not flavor the responses in this thread. Everyone should have figured out it was Vic. After I bent over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt and replay the game. Of course it had to be the 4 ball. Nothing else makes sense. Bob was so pissed at being called a cheater, he ran 2 and out, and sent Vic home.

 

[Pool Hand Luke]

If it's a bar table the 8 ball can't be spotted. Also if the 8 was made it would be the last ball to come back up on the new rack as it would be last in line in the ball return. That sounds a little fishy to me, so I would tend to believe Bob more than Vic, but agree with the others that say you made the right call.