Did I Overthink Here?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i was on the 4-Ball, wanting to get perfect position on the 5-Ball to get back across to the 6-Ball. here are some of the things that went through my mind:

1) HAVE to get an angle on the 5-Ball to get back over to the 6-Ball
2) CANNOT get straight in on the 5-Ball
3) coming in between the 5-Ball and 8-Ball takes me towards the side pocket
4) cant come in behind the 5-Ball off the long rail, thats too risky, i might bump into the 5-Ball
5) could i stun it, or hit it very easy with a tip of left english, and then pocket the 5-Ball into the lower right corner pocket instead?
6) would inside english help me hold the cue ball at the angle i need soes when i pocket the 5-Ball i have an angle to get across for the 6-Ball?

i elected to go with option #6, hitting it with authority and using some inside english to try and hold the angle. i bumped the 8-Ball, and missed position. it frustrated the sh~t out of me, that this simple five ball out was something i failed to have success on.

i am listening posters, where did i screw up? did i overthink? choose the wrong option? have completely missed the right option?

DCP

CueTable Help

 
I think the wrong option here is based solely on your skill sets and comfort levels with the shot. You're not Efren.

I know a bunch of guys who would stun the cue, and shoot the 5-ball in the lower right hand corner with follow to come out for the 6. Myself, I would do the same shot you attempted (although I'd hope for better results). There's no single correct way to run a rack. If anything, perhaps the multitude of options prohibited you from focusing on the one you chose to execute.
 
i think you just got a little unluckey. i would have tried the same shot. maybe without the inside english though.

How did the rest of the rack play out? you try to bank the 5 or play safe?
 
I agree

with Steve pretty much, and probably would shoot the way you did but
bring the cue over to the long rail. Just a slight back angle cut on the 5,
and I can slide the cue over to the other side for the 6. If worried about scratching in the other side, I would use low left on the backcut to 'slide'
the cue over, but pulling it back up table before that side pocket.
 
Snapshot9 said:
with Steve pretty much, and probably would shoot the way you did but
bring the cue over to the long rail. Just a slight back angle cut on the 5,
and I can slide the cue over to the other side for the 6. If worried about scratching in the other side, I would use low left on the backcut to 'slide'
the cue over, but pulling it back up table before that side pocket.
Click to expand...

i like this idea a lot more than the inside english option.
 
StevenPWaldon said:
I think the wrong option here is based solely on your skill sets and comfort levels with the shot. You're not Efren.

I know a bunch of guys who would stun the cue, and shoot the 5-ball in the lower right hand corner with follow to come out for the 6. Myself, I would do the same shot you attempted (although I'd hope for better results). There's no single correct way to run a rack. If anything, perhaps the multitude of options prohibited you from focusing on the one you chose to execute.
Click to expand...

I like this option. It's natural position to roll over to the side where the 5 is, and shoot it in the far corner. And you should have an angle to get over for the 6. I'd want to be fairly close to the 5 also. Makes it an easy shot.
 
Stunning over to play it in the lower right corner is the right option, IMHO.

It's natural, and the speed lays better. If you shoot the inside english option and hit a fraction too hard, you end up with no angle to move to the 6. If you are going to go that route, better is to use speed enough to lay it on the bottom rail, so you can stun over for shortside position on the 6.

Personally, I don't like the inside english option at all. It's much harder than just stunning over, and I just don't like hitting shots where you have to combine a higher degree of difficulty with perfect speed control. Either execution or speed is likely to be off.

The thing about stunning over is that except for straight in, any angle you get inside the first diamond is going to get you to the 6. So, what that means is: You are effectively playing position anywhere with a two-diamond wide area.

If you stun over and just barely get inside the first diamond, you have a nice angle to shoot the 5 in with a just above center inside english shot to get to the 5. If you hit it two diamonds harder than that, you cross through that zone, hit the rail, and end up with the exact same shot.

Compare it to your choice, DCP. Imagine your position zone on the other side of the 5. Now imagine your angle off the 4.. if you don't run into or get hooked by the 8, you have to avoid the side pocket. So you are effectively shooting at a position zone that is about half a diamond wide, and you have to hit that zone while using inside english and controlling your speed perfectly.

Here is in my opinion, the right way to play the shot. Notice you have good position anywhere from where my cue ball stopped, to the rail, and back again. A two diamond wide position zone.

CueTable Help



Russ
 
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These wei tables are tough for me to judge, but how bout a different approach.

Pocket the 4 with top left, and go 2 rails between the 8 and the 5. You're sure to have an angle on 5 to get to the 6.
 
Rodney, top left will send the cue ball directly into the 5, I think.. Also, any shot going through the gap between the 8 and 5 has the potential to scratch in the side.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
Rodney, top left will send the cue ball directly into the 5, I think.. Also, any shot going through the gap between the 8 and 5 has the potential to scratch in the side.

Russ
Click to expand...

I'm missing which side pocket you're talking about.

Make the cue ball hit between the 1st and 2nd diamond on the side rail by the 5 ball, and come up between the 5 and 8.

Maybe more side than top. I have trouble unless I'm actually shooting it.
 
Rodney,

Ahhh.. Gotcha. I missed the two rail part...


Mmmmmmm.. The two rail angle doesn't look like it lays natural. Looks easy to hit the 8, or to end up too thin... or too far away from the 5... For a three cushion player who knows exactly where he is going to hit the rail and knows exactly what english he is putting on the cue ball and how it will react off the rail, it's workable, but I think there are more consistent choices.

I like your choice though, if the 4 ball is a little closer to the middle of the table. :D
 
I'm pretty confident in this shot. For me shot speed is the key. If I leave the cue as close to the center of the table as possible, I like my chances of getting out. Unless of course I'm playing on a real tight-ass table:( .
 

CueTable Help



not sure if this is even possible. hard for me to picture the lay of the balls in my head
 
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I think drawing over to the short side of the five is best. It's pretty much dog proof, and if worse comes to worse and you get straight, you can just draw back a few inches and have a perfectly acceptable bank in the side with no worries about how to get a good angle on the eight.

The two rail route between the five and the eight presents a position problem because you're going to to be faced, in all probability, with a thin or long shot on the five where you've either got to finesse the shot or accept a longer shot on the six.

Going one rail between the five and eight, or using inside to shorten the angle off the rail is hardly a consideration. There are simply too many things that can go wrong to try that shot when there are simpler options available.

Remember, DCP, it's all about the percentages, then execution.
 
VIProfessor said:
I think drawing over to the short side of the five is best. It's pretty much dog proof, and if worse comes to worse and you get straight, you can just draw back a few inches and have a perfectly acceptable bank in the side with no worries about how to get a good angle on the eight.

The two rail route between the five and the eight presents a position problem because you're going to to be faced, in all probability, with a thin or long shot on the five where you've either got to finesse the shot or accept a longer shot on the six.

Going one rail between the five and eight, or using inside to shorten the angle off the rail is hardly a consideration. There are simply too many things that can go wrong to try that shot when there are simpler options available.

Remember, DCP, it's all about the percentages, then execution.
Click to expand...

Tap, Tap.

IMHO, that is by far the right answer, by far. Also, stun, don't really like that term BTW, sends the CB too much toward the end rail, lots of things can happen, especially if your speed is off. When you need an angle, sometimes you are better off cutting straight across the zone, less chance to get straight.

Mike

BTW, Russ, check your stun angle.
 
There is such a thing as stun-follow and stun draw, thanks. :D

If I say "slight follow or slight draw" to a beginner, it means something totaly different. This is a shot with a "stun stroke" shot slightly below center, so I called it a stun shot, which it is.

Russ
 
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There are any number of ways you can run this pattern (or any other pattern).

What I'd like to see you do is experiment more to see which approach works best for you. Part of acquiring experience comes from learning from your mistakes and in practicing the shots you didn't make the first time.
 
I think you just chose the wrong option here. Playing below the 5 to shoot it up-table gives you the much larger margin of error; even if you get close to straight, you can follow it for a makeable cut shot on the 6. Instead of stun or stun-draw that others are suggesting, I'd hit the 4 softly with a little high-left english to follow into the end rail and then approach the 5 along the line of the angle you want. The only way to screw it up too badly is to over hit it and come up even with 5, and you have to hit it real badly to do that.

-Andrew
 
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