Did SVB do the C word?

of course he choked, choking means to lose when you're supposed to win, if you're up 15 racks, then you're supposed to win

having said that, it's no big deal, and choking here and there doesn't neccessarily make you a "choker" per se

Efren choked for YEARS before he started winning

it's all about development
 
Maybe Alex just caught a gear and won. That's pretty much all there is to it. If the race was to 80? "If's" and "buts" really don't go down in the record book.

Keep score this way. W Or L. Who got paid?
 
crawfish said:
Maybe Alex just caught a gear and won. That's pretty much all there is to it. If the race was to 80? "If's" and "buts" really don't go down in the record book.

Keep score this way. W Or L. Who got paid?
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It's race to 100 :) ....I think SVB got over confident after day 2...and I guess Alex said to himself" .."Are you done? let me show you how to finish this game with a full blast :D "
 
smashmouth said:
of course he choked, choking means to lose when you're supposed to win, if you're up 15 racks, then you're supposed to win
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With all due respect, I don't know if I would define choking how you did. That would mean that every underdog that has won, won because the other player/team choked. I would not say that the Colts choked against the Jets in 1969 or that Sonny Liston choked against Muhammad Ali. They were both "suppose to" win. I know Shane had a huge lead and it looked like he would run away with it, but Alex played great and never gave up. Shane did make some mistakes that he normally wouldn't make, but he was sitting in his chair a long time when Alex went on his great comeback. If you want to see someone choke and dogg-it, watch me play some time.
 
rossaroni said:
With all due respect, I don't know if I would define choking how you did. That would mean that every underdog that has won, won because the other player/team choked. I would not say that the Colts choked against the Jets in 1969 or that Sonny Liston choked against Muhammad Ali. They were both "suppose to" win. I know Shane had a huge lead and it looked like he would run away with it, but Alex played great and never gave up. Shane did make some mistakes that he normally wouldn't make, but he was sitting in his chair a long time when Alex went on his great comeback. If you want to see someone choke and dogg-it, watch me play some time.
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THere's a difference in upset and choking though.
The Oilers choked agains the Bills in the second half after being ahead 30+.
Greg Norman choked in the final day of that Masters.
Choking is when you can't close the show when you are supposed to. And sometimes with multiple opportunities.
Yankees ahead 3-0 against the Sox might have been the worst case of choking ever. Sorry for the Yanks fans.
 
JoeyInCali said:
THere's a difference in upset and choking though.
The Oilers choked agains the Bills in the second half after being ahead 30+.
Greg Norman choked in the final day of that Masters.
Choking is when you can't close the show when you are supposed to. And sometimes with multiple opportunities.
Yankees ahead 3-0 against the Sox might have been the worst case of choking ever. Sorry for the Yanks fans.
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I do agree with you. I was replying to a poster that said, "choking means to lose when you are suppose to win." I think there is more to choking then that definition. If I played Shane, he is probably suppose to win:rolleyes: , but if I put a 100 pack on him, it doesn't mean that he choked. He just flipped bad!:p In his match against Alex, being up 22 games, he looked to be cruising to victory, but he didn't neccessarily choke or give the match to Alex.
 
I dont necesarrily think that SVB was "supposed to win". I mean Alex has been a solid and dangerous player for years now. He knows what it takes to win and that is what makes him a champ. Alex is also the only player thus far that has kept nipping at the heels of SVB in these tournies. That kind of "never say die" would get to anyone....except Tiger Woods. JMO.

Southpaw
 
rossaroni said:
If you want to see someone choke and dogg-it, watch me play some time.
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lol, I used to get my fill of that from 80's Blue Jay teams and pre-steroid Barry Bonds, now I just watch A-Rod
 
smashmouth said:
lol, I used to get my fill of that from 80's Blue Jay teams and pre-steroid Barry Bonds, now I just watch A-Rod
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They got nothing on me!:rolleyes: Every time I actually get to the 9-ball, I pause for a second and pray that my opponent gives it to me.
 
rossaroni said:
They got nothing on me!:rolleyes: Every time I actually get to the 9-ball, I pause for a second and pray that my opponent gives it to me.
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:D :D :D
I know this guy who had $10,000 riding on this 9-ball one time. He was on the hill. 9-ball was inches from the pocket while the cueball was almost frozen to the opposite side-rail.
He tried to show everyone in the poolhall who bet against him. Milked the shot. Chalked up excessively and walked around the table a few times.
Got down and shot. Miscued, missed the 9 ball completely.
Lost 10k.
:eek:
 
JoeyInCali said:
:D :D :D
I know this guy who had $10,000 riding on this 9-ball one time. He was on the hill. 9-ball was inches from the pocket while the cueball was almost frozen to the opposite side-rail.
He tried to show everyone in the poolhall who bet against him. Milked the shot. Chalked up excessively and walked around the table a few times.
Got down and shot. Miscued, missed the 9 ball completely.
Lost 10k.
:eek:
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I never knew that we met. I was hoping nobody remembered that!:rolleyes:
 
Choke is when you're 10 games to 1 up and breaking, on a race to 11, AND with alternate breaks and still lost, that's choking to me (Hopkins vs. Reyes).

SVB didn't choked, he just got frustrated and it showed. This was the first time he felt that kind of heat. He's usually on cruise control when getting that kind of a head start and his opponents usually self destructs (Deuel and Earl) and he'll just cruise his way to victory. I've never seen SVB slam the CB or his stick on the table, his action says a lot. He was on tilt after losing such a big lead after using up his bakery of rolls, plus playing nearly flawless pool for two straight days. When Alex caught another gear and got his turn to use his own rolls, SVB just can't stop the bleeding, specially Alex' turn came on the most opportune time, the homestretch.

There's a fine line between winning and losing, and that's the finish line, were heart counts the most...
 
gopi-1 said:
Choke is when you're 10 games to 1 up and breaking, on a race to 11, AND with alternate breaks and still lost, that's choking to me (Hopkins vs. Reyes).

SVB didn't choked, he just got frustrated and it showed. This was the first time he felt that kind of heat. He's usually on cruise control when getting that kind of a head start and his opponents usually self destructs (Deuel and Earl) and he'll just cruise his way to victory. I've never seen SVB slam the CB or his stick on the table, his action says a lot. He was on tilt after losing such a big lead after using up his bakery of rolls, plus playing nearly flawless pool for two straight days. When Alex caught another gear and got his turn to use his own rolls, SVB just can't stop the bleeding, specially Alex' turn came on the most opportune time, the homestretch.

There's a fine line between winning and losing, and that's the finish line, were heart counts the most...
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Folding and choking, I dunno the difference.
I saw the last game on you tube. SVB with ball in hand is supposed to run that rack out. According to Accustats, pros runout more than 80% of the time with ball in hand on the 1-ball ( 9-ball tournaments ),.
 
Alex kept it close despite Shane's good rolls (approx. 70% of the good rolls in the match went Shane's way). IMO Shane C and because of that he is now officially Alex's B.. :D
 
branpureza said:
haha, how is it irrelevant when you're trying to figure out why someone won or lost? The fact that Alex played better in the end is exactly why he won... and for those who think SVB choked, well that's a direct result of what? Alex playing his ass off, that's what... if Alex just folded up like a lawn chair when he was down, which is what most players would have done, Shane would have coasted to victory... instead Alex stepped his game up like a true champion and showed everyone including Shane what heart really was.
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It's completely irrelevant if Alex played better at the end.

the issue up for discussion is whether shane started to choke and dog shots to close the match out. Alex is a great great player, but he's not so much better than Shane that he can overcome the huge deficit he faced without a little help from Shane starting to dog a few shots.

Alex played great and I agree with you about his heart. It was out of this world.

But Shane will be kicking himself because he had this game well within reach, and he did choke.

It'll probably mess with his head for a little while, but he be back i think.
 
Tin Man said:
Shane didn't choke. He was just frustrated at the way things were going. Choking is due to being scared. He was just a little tilted. Why? Obviously Alex made a huge comeback, but he needed and got some good rolls along the way. As Grady always says, the balls know who's winning. Many things could have gone just slightly differently to launch Shane across the finish line.

Don't get me wrong. Alex made the comeback of the decade and it is a match I will always be glad that I witnessed. When you are down that much you have to play great just to give yourself a chance and hope for a little help from the pool gods along the way. He deserves to win for doing that, and I would certainly never bet a nickel against Alex.

But I don't think I will ever bet against Shane again. With his firepower and break I felt that Alex had to play perfect and get a little lucky to win that set. Give him credit for playing perfect. He certainly deserves the win. But there is no question that he wasn't parking whitey and playing shape on the one like SVB, and came up dry much more often. That means that all match long Shane had many more opportunities to shoot which accounts for his lead and his confidence. When you run three racks an inning it takes a little heat off of your game when your opponent is fighting to make balls or get a shot at the one.

Alex found that the only way to stop SVB's endless break and runs was to not let him break. After winning many games in a row he finally succeeded in getting Shane out of stroke and rode his wave to the end.

In summary, it could've gone either way, and I will never bet against either of them again. They are both world champions in my book, and if I were Shane I would be proud that I got a player like that down 22 games not ashamed of losing to a historic performance.
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I think he got frustrated after choking on shots he shouldn't be dogging.:rolleyes:
 
I watched the whole event it seems from watching over the three day period Shane comes out of the gate like an animal everyday and slowed down as the night went on. Alex comes out slow and began to play better and better as the night went on. Shane was playing absolutely terrible at the end, he was in acoma (sad to see almost give up mode). In the last ten racks alone he scratched twice in the side getting position from the one to the two in almost back to back racks, missed another one, missed a three, a six, a seven and a nine. He also miss played at least 3 easy safeties that he usually locks the guy up on. The whole PPV chatroom was just like WTF everytime he got to the table in the last couple of hrs.

He looked like a very different player than we are all use to seeing. He was anything but steady.
 
Tin Man said:
Shane didn't choke. He was just frustrated at the way things were going. Choking is due to being scared. He was just a little tilted. Why? Obviously Alex made a huge comeback, but he needed and got some good rolls along the way. As Grady always says, the balls know who's winning. Many things could have gone just slightly differently to launch Shane across the finish line.
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That's a pretty good assessment. Shane will gradually get more seasoned over the next few years. He's just 24, and has been in the large limelight for only a year or two; whereas Alex has been at or around the top for 10-12 years. Alex knows how to win. Shane will learn with more bigtime exposure how to manage a big lead, and to hold up during circumstances when fortune seems to be reversing. I believe that his career is right on target.

Doc
 
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