custom cues are basically worthless it seems and only the popular productions the ones that get sold easy is what i see atleast.
and the number of cue makers grows by the day .
and the number of cue makers grows by the day .
Did the cue market fall apart?
- Thread starter OldOrvis
- Start date
After some yahoo at the local hall accidentally knocked one of my customs onto a metal seam on the floor, damaging the forearm, I changed my gear.
The customs will never leave the house. I now play with a factory cue with a durable CF shaft to prevent that from happening to me again.
There are more idiots out there and more thieves than I remember from back in the day.
I see little reason to play with a cue I can't replace in 2 days.
As others have said, when the economy is being wrecked by bad policies, people tighten their belts to minimize the damage.
Discretionary spending is the first thing to go. Needs over wants when things get this bad.
The customs will never leave the house. I now play with a factory cue with a durable CF shaft to prevent that from happening to me again.
There are more idiots out there and more thieves than I remember from back in the day.
I see little reason to play with a cue I can't replace in 2 days.
As others have said, when the economy is being wrecked by bad policies, people tighten their belts to minimize the damage.
Discretionary spending is the first thing to go. Needs over wants when things get this bad.
$3600, seven bumps.
** 15TH ANNIVERSARY PETE TONKIN**
15TH ANNIVERSARY PETE TONKIN 1 OF 10. SHAFT 1: 12.9MM, 3.9oz. 29inch SHAFT 2: 12.9MM, 4.0oz. 29inch BUTT: 15.6oz, 29inch. 3/8x10 MOD. Matching joint protectors. Butt without weight is 14.8oz. All white is 🐘 an shafts to. Cue is in pristine condition. 8.5k shipped OBO. 15k NEW!
forums.azbilliards.com
$8500, eight bumps.
$2400, six bumps.
You could go to Bring a Trailer for this kind of money and buy a fun car!
That said, I don't think any of this is evidence the cue market is falling apart. A 10-20% correction in prices, if that's what is actually happening, is not abnormal in collecting. Pre-1980 classic cars had a 20-30% correction almost across the board (well before the interest rate hikes) and have now stabilized. Watches have had a major correction in the past couple years.
The real question is about the long-term trends and it's pretty clear those trends are not positive for collector cues.
few used collector cues often in pool rooms anyway. just like few use a collectable car for daily driving. yet over time they go up.
when times get bad and all those start complaining how they cant make it any more its time to invest in things that go up in value over the long run.
in bad times its easy to make money. for those that looked ahead and saved for the opportunity.
there will always be good times and bad times. if you aren't prepared for the bad times then its all on you.
when times get bad and all those start complaining how they cant make it any more its time to invest in things that go up in value over the long run.
in bad times its easy to make money. for those that looked ahead and saved for the opportunity.
there will always be good times and bad times. if you aren't prepared for the bad times then its all on you.
With U Tube coming into the pool world, players are realizing that it's not the cue, it's you. Players for a long time have been "Played" by marketing and they now know it is not the straightness of the cue that matters, it is the straightness of the stroke. Collectors do not care, they have lotsa money. Nieve are still allow themselves to be "played", Online tutorials have brought the pool world into focus.It seems that earlier in the year I had 0 problems selling cues, but now it seems like its pulling teeth to get any kind of deals done. I know something has changed due to me getting a cue back I sold earlier this year in less than a day and had 8 PMs and legit offers about it and now I posted it again and haven't even got a "hello how are ya" lol Are others having the same experience? I have several cues I posted across different platforms and I don't try to Highball with my prices and even at low prices things don't seem to be moving.
Thanks
I think CF is a factor. But another huge factor, is the fact that pool rooms are closing.
The upscale rooms that were in my area are long gone.
If there is a large pool of players and a lively scene then some folks will by a nice cue for pride of ownership.
Like driving a nice car.
I've got some customs but am playing with a cheap Mezz with the Ignite shaft.
It hits fine. I don't have worry about dings.
I leave the extension on.
Demand is created by healthy pool rooms and if pool rooms are goin out of business then there is gonna be a lot less demand for pool cues.
The upscale rooms that were in my area are long gone.
If there is a large pool of players and a lively scene then some folks will by a nice cue for pride of ownership.
Like driving a nice car.
I've got some customs but am playing with a cheap Mezz with the Ignite shaft.
It hits fine. I don't have worry about dings.
I leave the extension on.
Demand is created by healthy pool rooms and if pool rooms are goin out of business then there is gonna be a lot less demand for pool cues.
My last tournament a few weeks ago, my opponent was playing with a nice older cue, he told me that it was a Gus Szam, he bought it directly from the great 14.1 Ray Martin. I could hardly concentrate on the game, kept looking at the cue- THAT's collection passion! Yes , I won the match, and he was a 650 Fargo, I think in his fifties, maybe, but about 20 years younger than me. After the match I just could not help but ask him if I could hold the cue - just to feel the balance, etc- super nice, but not fancy Gus, 20 oz but felt much lighter due to the balance.
I bet I was the only guy in the entire room that day of the entire tournament field who either noticed, cared, or was awed by this guy's Gus and the man, Ray Martin who once owned it. No one else there would even consider the cue anything close to being worth what the expected market value of that Gus would be to someone like me and the owner. 90% of the shafts the players used were CF. Only about 4 of us had wood shafts -
Just the state of things today, everything in life moves in one direction or another at some point due to many factors. I was playing with an old Palmer that day- completely restored to new condition- he noticed, commented on it - no one else in the room would care.
I bet I was the only guy in the entire room that day of the entire tournament field who either noticed, cared, or was awed by this guy's Gus and the man, Ray Martin who once owned it. No one else there would even consider the cue anything close to being worth what the expected market value of that Gus would be to someone like me and the owner. 90% of the shafts the players used were CF. Only about 4 of us had wood shafts -
Just the state of things today, everything in life moves in one direction or another at some point due to many factors. I was playing with an old Palmer that day- completely restored to new condition- he noticed, commented on it - no one else in the room would care.
A FB Classic Cue Site that I am a member of had a guy post 8 of his cues for sale this afternoon. They were nicely presented, all were from the 1980's they ranged in price from $700 - $1900 and he specified "not negotiable" and within 2 hours 4 of them were sold.
The takeaway is that desirable cues that are in good condition, nicely presented and well priced will sell.
The takeaway is that desirable cues that are in good condition, nicely presented and well priced will sell.
The domestic market is dying.
Good news is the foreign market is still good.
A few makers would quit if they lost their foreign sales.
Good news is the foreign market is still good.
A few makers would quit if they lost their foreign sales.
Mmm, ok.
I think it all comes down to the cue and what one paid for it versus what one wants to sell it. I have a TS cue I paid
under $3k in ‘05. It is a flat ivory radial pin joint. It has nice veneers and ivory and abalone inlays. IMO, it would sell
fast but at what price? At $3k, I’d recover all of my original money but it is worth more than that? How much more?
I don’t know and I’m not interested in selling the cue. My point is it would sell relatively quickly and I don’t think I’d
even have to bump the thread once. But as my selling price goes up, the buying market shrinks. It would sell for $4k
but it would take a little longer. Now at $5k, I’d be bumping the thread to the front pages saying willing to take offers.
The challenge every custom cue seller faces is being realistic about what their cue is worth and pricing it attractively.
A Gus Szamboti Cole might be worth $20k but it would sell faster listed @ $15,750 but not if you paid $15k for the cue.
Custom cue sellers should understand their cues are not not an investment but a way to recover what you orig. paid.
I can selling any ivory joint cue I own for what I paid and not be disappointed because I got to play with the cue for free.
How many owners of their cues can say that with confidence? Remember, I never said I’d make a profit, only recover
what I paid. Some of my cues would result in a nice profit like my TS cue. It isn’t that hard to do if you’re not greedy.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding but my TS cue, and my others, are too rare to sell. Ed’s annual cue production is still tightly managed to a couple dozen cues annually, if that. Bob Owen has taken off and his popularity is soaring. I was promoting his custom cue making a decade ago when I got my first custom from Bob. Jerry R. Is retired and he
made really outstanding cues. Lastly, my 1985 Runde Schon is a one of a kind design and I paid $800 for it. So all
in all, recovering my original payments should not be a problem. What is the real issue is pricing the cues attractively.
under $3k in ‘05. It is a flat ivory radial pin joint. It has nice veneers and ivory and abalone inlays. IMO, it would sell
fast but at what price? At $3k, I’d recover all of my original money but it is worth more than that? How much more?
I don’t know and I’m not interested in selling the cue. My point is it would sell relatively quickly and I don’t think I’d
even have to bump the thread once. But as my selling price goes up, the buying market shrinks. It would sell for $4k
but it would take a little longer. Now at $5k, I’d be bumping the thread to the front pages saying willing to take offers.
The challenge every custom cue seller faces is being realistic about what their cue is worth and pricing it attractively.
A Gus Szamboti Cole might be worth $20k but it would sell faster listed @ $15,750 but not if you paid $15k for the cue.
Custom cue sellers should understand their cues are not not an investment but a way to recover what you orig. paid.
I can selling any ivory joint cue I own for what I paid and not be disappointed because I got to play with the cue for free.
How many owners of their cues can say that with confidence? Remember, I never said I’d make a profit, only recover
what I paid. Some of my cues would result in a nice profit like my TS cue. It isn’t that hard to do if you’re not greedy.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding but my TS cue, and my others, are too rare to sell. Ed’s annual cue production is still tightly managed to a couple dozen cues annually, if that. Bob Owen has taken off and his popularity is soaring. I was promoting his custom cue making a decade ago when I got my first custom from Bob. Jerry R. Is retired and he
made really outstanding cues. Lastly, my 1985 Runde Schon is a one of a kind design and I paid $800 for it. So all
in all, recovering my original payments should not be a problem. What is the real issue is pricing the cues attractively.
Attachments
About half of all exhibitors (cuemakers and collectors) were in attendance for the first time.
very encouraging…..
Will
Thanks
I better quit now and cancel thousands of dollars worth of orders from overseas.
I am guessing the SW wait time hasnt budged much. Never understood that dynamic. Is someone making CF shafts for those?
I would
Benelli
Well-known member
I bet you 80% of the people on that list think they're going to sell that cue for double what they paid. If the Cue market takes an actual shit... that list will still exist but when SW calls folks to let them know their number is up I bet most of those calls go unanswered...
Benelli
Well-known member
what percentage of your orders is US, and what percentage is foreign?
When old time billiards was phased out here is an article from 1963 pdf attached.
Bert Smith might not have the same outlook for owning a poolroom in today's world.
There is a bit about them complaining about the tangerine color of the cloth too.
History just keeps repeating. I never believed the prof when she said it.
Bert Smith might not have the same outlook for owning a poolroom in today's world.
There is a bit about them complaining about the tangerine color of the cloth too.
History just keeps repeating. I never believed the prof when she said it.