Difference in Cue Joints???

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payton34

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:confused: I'm about to purchase a new Tim Scurggs cue and I can't wait! My only question is what's the difference when hitting with an ivory joint? This new cue has one and I've honestly never really played with an ivory joint. I'm not even honestly sure if there is a difference in feel? Please post your thoughts on this.

Thanks!
 
payton34 said:
Anyone??? Can anyone answer this question???
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I believe that it's a harder hit than linen/wood but softer than steel. I like the way it plays as all of my cues have it, except the j/bs that is.
 
I just like the feel of a Ivory Poilted Joint, over any other joint material. Especially Bill Mcdaniel's ivory joint.
D.
 
payton34 said:
:confused: I'm about to purchase a new Tim Scurggs cue and I can't wait! My only question is what's the difference when hitting with an ivory joint? This new cue has one and I've honestly never really played with an ivory joint. I'm not even honestly sure if there is a difference in feel? Please post your thoughts on this.

Thanks!
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Tim makes both his SS and Ivory joints feel the same (today). He accidentally discovered that when he put a SS collar on a joint that the ivory cracked. That's when he found out that in his cues, the flat-face contact defined the hit of his cues, not the material of the collar. It'll feel like a solid wood-to-wood contact.

Older SS joints from Scruggs were of the old style, pilot into metal.

Fred
 
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zeeder said:
I believe that it's a harder hit than linen/wood but softer than steel. I like the way it plays as all of my cues have it, except the j/bs that is.
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This is probably as accurate a description as you are going to get. I have tried most all joint styles, and the ivory was not my favorite (at least not the piloted). I really prefer a flat-faced joint with a big pin. Most here, I would say, do very much prefer the hit of ivory. Perhaps if I were to try a flat-faced ivory I would like it better. Some think I'm a bit 'sideways' anyways...so what do I know.:rolleyes: ;) :D

Lisa
 
Good thread addressing that same question I had

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=48548

I have a SS joint on my cue and my most recent cue has a ivory sleeve. I've spent about 4 hours with the new cue and I have noticed it has the same soft feel of my ss jointed cue but I can feel more response with the harder I hit the ball. I would say it gives me more feedback but without feeling like I'm hitting with an aluminum bat.

All in all I prefer the feel of the ivory sleeved joint. It just feels more true with better feedback. With that said so many different things can change the feel of the hit. My new cue also has an ivory ferrule too.
 
Cornerman said:
Tim makes both his SS and Ivory joints feel the same (today). He accidentally discovered that when he put a SS collar on a joint that the ivory cracked. That's when he found out that in his cues, the flat-face contact defined the hit of his cues, not the material of the collar. It'll feel like a solid wood-to-wood contact.

Older SS joints from Scruggs were of the old style, pilot into metal.

Fred
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"What Fred said" I have some TS cues (Fred,you hit with the Titleist at DCC once with Jimbo) with the flat faced SS joint and radial pin and it hits quite differently than a traditional (piloted) SS joint.Personally i love it but i am pretty partial to Tim and Mikes cues.Thanks,Mike S.
 
Cornerman said:
Tim makes both his SS and Ivory joints feel the same (today). He accidentally discovered that when he put a SS collar on a joint that the ivory cracked. That's when he found out that in his cues, the flat-face contact defined the hit of his cues, not the material of the collar. It'll feel like a solid wood-to-wood contact.

Older SS joints from Scruggs were of the old style, pilot into metal.

Fred
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You always seem to know tons about Tim Scruggs, cues. I don't want to completely highjack the thread so i'll at least keep the subject about joints. When I assemble my Scruggs SS piloted joint, the wood around the pilot fits tight to the steel sleeve on the butt and requires a bit more pressure to turn. The shafts that do this have a wonderful hit. When I put on one of Tim's other shafts from some of his sneakies I own the wood around the pilot doesn't make the same contact. They don't have that same hit. Don't get me wrong, on certain shots it does, but usually shots with more speed and still it's a bit muted. Is the tightness of the wood part of the pilot RESPONSIBLE for this special hit? Or is it something else Tim and Mike do in the construction? Or is it the tightness that makes me Notice the hit more? Or, is it that the shafts for my custom scruggs just hit better than the sneakies? Maybe none of the above?

Last question, how does Tim's Radial compare to his SS joint that he's famous for?
 
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I hope you dont mind my responding since the question wasnt directed to me but i have all three cues you mentioned so while i am getting my caffeine fix i thought i would throw in my thoughts.The radial pin,to me,is a bit "softer" hit than the 5/16-14 SS joint and seems to be easier to impart various "action" on the cueball with maybe a bit less effort.That my be true of all flatfaced joints but it feels that way with the TS radial flatfaced SS joint.That probably is related to the shaft taper they use also but to my knowledge that would be the same regardless of the joint configuration.Regarding the fit of the shaft(s) from your sneaky on your other cue,usually they would want the butt of a cue back to build a shaft for it so the shaft from another cue probably wont fit as well as one made specifically for that cue.I am not trying to imply that the flat faced radial plays better than the traditional SS joint but i really like it.However,my son is a really strong player and plays with a TS cue with the traditional 5/16-14 SS joint.Tim and Mikes work is incredibly precise and i say that having had lots of different kinds of cues plus as i have stated on here before you wont deal with two nicer folks.Sorry for the length,Mike S.
 
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Hey Mike, any reply from anyone would be fine. I'm just starting to get crazy over Tim Scruggs cues. I bought several sneakies and had a custom made for me not too long ago. I guess I've never shot with a radial before so I was wondering about the hit. All my life, I've played with stainless steel piloted joints and I guess that's what I like. My Scruggs is a SS piloted and I don't think I've ever shot with anything that felt this great. I'm so obsessed about it that on some days that I don't get to play I'll take it out of the case just to do a few stroke drills on a table.

Anyway back to the subject. I think I might send those guys an email and ask them directly, about the SS fit. Anyone else know if the tight fitting pilot on the SS joints contributes to the hit? Not that I would do this, but if a person were to sand a way at the wood around the pilot so it wouldn't fit tightly would you lose that "hit?" or is there something more to it. (Again I would never do that)

Mike thanks for the reply about the Radial I might just get one from Tim next year.
 
twilight said:
Hey Mike, any reply from anyone would be fine. I'm just starting to get crazy over Tim Scruggs cues. I bought several sneakies and had a custom made for me not too long ago. I guess I've never shot with a radial before so I was wondering about the hit. All my life, I've played with stainless steel piloted joints and I guess that's what I like. My Scruggs is a SS piloted and I don't think I've ever shot with anything that felt this great. I'm so obsessed about it that on some days that I don't get to play I'll take it out of the case just to do a few stroke drills on a table.

Anyway back to the subject. I think I might send those guys an email and ask them directly, about the SS fit. Anyone else know if the tight fitting pilot on the SS joints contributes to the hit? Not that I would do this, but if a person were to sand a way at the wood around the pilot so it wouldn't fit tightly would you lose that "hit?" or is there something more to it. (Again I would never do that)

Mike thanks for the reply about the Radial I might just get one from Tim next year.
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You need to PM Nick, he had/has a Radial pinned Scruggs, that he absolutely raved about...said he could draw the CB right up his arm with it!!

Lisa
 
I'm biased but I think these stags are the better than ivory.
bones.jpg
 
ridewiththewind said:
This is probably as accurate a description as you are going to get. I have tried most all joint styles, and the ivory was not my favorite (at least not the piloted). I really prefer a flat-faced joint with a big pin. Most here, I would say, do very much prefer the hit of ivory. Perhaps if I were to try a flat-faced ivory I would like it better. Some think I'm a bit 'sideways' anyways...so what do I know.:rolleyes: ;) :D

Lisa
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I wonder at what skill level a player has to be at for the joint to matter at all. I doubt a low skill level player could tell how the joint style affected the hit of their cue. Hard tips versus soft tips may make more of a difference in the feel of the hit. I think it depends on the player and how much attention they pay to the sound and feel of their cue.
 
swfan said:
I wonder at what skill level a player has to be at for the joint to matter at all. I doubt a low skill level player could tell how the joint style affected the hit of their cue. Hard tips versus soft tips may make more of a difference in the feel of the hit. I think it depends on the player and how much attention they pay to the sound and feel of their cue.
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Good point I don't think it matters. I have a pretty good selection of cues and I let my wife, father in law, and brother in law play with all of them.

They go back and forth all the time and I get all different kinds of feedback from them. Typically I find we feel the same things, power, characteristics, response.

I purposely don't say anything about what I feel just to see if others are feeling the same thing. I think when you have a greater selection to choose from and the time to do it there are lots of aspects that even just a novice can notice. I've learned a lot doing this.
 
Well, I can tell the difference, but I have heightened tactile sense, always have. My two best playing cues (for me) have both had flat-flaced wood/wood joints. One with a 3/8-10 pin and my current one, with a Radial. I feel like I get just a tad more feedback with the Radial. They have also been both BEM/Ebony cues...go figure.:D

I really do not think you can attribute all of this to the joint type, but when a cue feels really solid in the hand, no matter the joint, it instills confidence, and it's that confidence that helps you to just play better.

It really is just a matter of personal preference.

Lisa
 
IMO- I feel the piloted Ivory joint is one of the softest hitting joints available. I have a flat faced Ivory joint that feels alot harder than the piloted. When I switch back and forth in between shots it is very obvious that the flat faced is a much harder hit. And as far as SS, that is a whole different animal. The SS joint also a very different feel. IMO a very solid hit, but not nearly as much feel as the others. As far as sleeved joints go, as long as wood contacts wood when screwed together, the joint collar makes no difference on the feel of the hit. If you try these joint types all in the same day, I assure you that you will feel a difference between them. After all, if you play enough with a certain joint you will grow to like it. Get the one that feels the best after hitting just a few balls.
Good Luck!!!
 
Charlie Edwards said:
This is an interesting read;

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....tvc=2&q=texas+express+joint+#8df34c50775a9d06
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Many of us have referred to the blind test many times over the years. It's simple fact. Without sight, it's very difficult to tell what kind of joint you're playing with.

I'm glad (the late) John McChesney did this test and posted on it. It's good proof that people are delusional. You like what you feel you like, period. Whether it has SS, ivory, piloted, or litte ants and gerbils in the tunnels of the forearm, the fact is, you'll still like the feel because you lilke the feel. And it's crazy to think that just because one cue you like happens to have ivory, that all ivory joints would feel similar. That would be a non sequitur.

Fred
 
I do not understand the conclusion of this test when he stated that the joint clearly makes little difference.

I think the test shows that among the 70 or so participates, most were unable to tell which joint they were playing with. However, it does not mean joint configuration plays no importance in the playability of a cue. Just exactly how was this conclusion deduced?

Richard
 
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