Differences in playability between cues

James

Red Wire... Right Temple
Silver Member
Since I've been contributing about as much to the main forum today as Stephen Hawking in a basketball game, here's an attempt at a real thread...


I hear people talking all the time about how they only play with a certain joint material, certain pin, uber-shafts, etc. etc.

I know that I'm relatively a very new player and maybe I'm just "not there" yet, but I don't feel as much of a difference as so many people appear to and I'm wondering where the breakdown is.

My inclination is that it's a mix between me not having a delicate enough feel yet, as well as some people being a little caught up in some placebo/hype effect.

My first cue was a sneaky with a 12.5mm tip and a sniper MH and G-10 pin.

My second being my Ariel in my sig. I went from a basic sneaky to a nice ebony custom. The shaft on the Ariel is 13mm with his compressed triangle tip and a stainless pin.

Now, I do notice differences, but mainly in the shafts. If I swap shafts, I don't notice much of a difference in the butts. The balance point is something I can feel, but it doesn't effect my game at all. (At least that I'm aware of)

I can see how drastic differences in weight/balance/materials/pin/joint/etc could make for a different feel, but I find myself adapting very quickly.

I notice a difference in the shaft diameter/taper as well as the tips most when I get away from using center ball...

Before I ramble much more what do you all think?

-J
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you have a radial tapped shaft, I'll let you try my sneaky and beater cue this Sunday at Hard Times.
 

James

Red Wire... Right Temple
Silver Member
Joey,

I appreciate the offer. Right now everything I have is 3/8-10. Although a cuemaker would probably be the best to answer this for me. Last time I was at Kent's place he had Da Barber trying about 20 different butts out with the same shaft, and frank felt a noticable difference between them all. I don't doubt that he is legit in those claims, I'm just saying I don't feel them.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
James said:
Joey,

I appreciate the offer. Right now everything I have is 3/8-10. Although a cuemaker would probably be the best to answer this for me. Last time I was at Kent's place he had Da Barber trying about 20 different butts out with the same shaft, and frank felt a noticable difference between them all. I don't doubt that he is legit in those claims, I'm just saying I don't feel them.
hehehe, I make cues.
Different woods, butt construction , butt tapers and collars contribute to the different feel of cues.
 

James

Red Wire... Right Temple
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
hehehe, I make cues.
Different woods, butt construction , butt tapers and collars contribute to the different feel of cues.

If it wasn't clear in my last response, I knew that you make cues and it was dawning on my that someone like you (or kent) would be a good one to help answer me. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

Also if it wasn't clear, I'm very aware that I should be feeling significant differences, I'm just saying that they aren't immediately apparent to me at this time. But I admittedly haven't had the exposure to different cues that many people have. Maybe I've just been lucky in having a few good playing cues around that happen to fit my likes?
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
James said:
If it wasn't clear in my last response, I knew that you make cues and it was dawning on my that someone like you (or kent) would be a good one to help answer me. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

Also if it wasn't clear, I'm very aware that I should be feeling significant differences, I'm just saying that they aren't immediately apparent to me at this time. But I admittedly haven't had the exposure to different cues that many people have. Maybe I've just been lucky in having a few good playing cues around that happen to fit my likes?
I know Kent btw. Kent's been big in making cues the way he likes them.
He likes them to "stay on the ball" as he told me once.

Anyway, the aim for a good feeling cue is for a cue to give you enough feedback after you stroke the ball. It'll tell you if you hit it with the wrong stroke, speed or tip location.
When I punch the ball dead center I want a cue that would tell me if I did or not.
Some cues just do not have good feedback and bad cueball action. If you get both, then the cue is a "dud" .
The good ones have great feedback and great cueball action.
 

TripXQ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
feel

Many safe lock crackers take years developing the safe cracking touch. With cues it takes time and practice, practice, practice.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
quantitative and qualitative cue attributes

FYI, I have a decent description (with links) of many of the quantitative and qualitative characteristics of a cue here:
Check it out,
Dave
James said:
Since I've been contributing about as much to the main forum today as Stephen Hawking in a basketball game, here's an attempt at a real thread...


I hear people talking all the time about how they only play with a certain joint material, certain pin, uber-shafts, etc. etc.

I know that I'm relatively a very new player and maybe I'm just "not there" yet, but I don't feel as much of a difference as so many people appear to and I'm wondering where the breakdown is.

My inclination is that it's a mix between me not having a delicate enough feel yet, as well as some people being a little caught up in some placebo/hype effect.

My first cue was a sneaky with a 12.5mm tip and a sniper MH and G-10 pin.

My second being my Ariel in my sig. I went from a basic sneaky to a nice ebony custom. The shaft on the Ariel is 13mm with his compressed triangle tip and a stainless pin.

Now, I do notice differences, but mainly in the shafts. If I swap shafts, I don't notice much of a difference in the butts. The balance point is something I can feel, but it doesn't effect my game at all. (At least that I'm aware of)

I can see how drastic differences in weight/balance/materials/pin/joint/etc could make for a different feel, but I find myself adapting very quickly.

I notice a difference in the shaft diameter/taper as well as the tips most when I get away from using center ball...

Before I ramble much more what do you all think?

-J
 

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do think the more you play, the more you will get a feel for the differences. I do not think it is a difference in playablilty as much as it is a difference in feel. I can make my $30 walmart cue do the same thing to the CB as my better cues, it just feels different, and the craftmanship is different.
 

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mantis99 said:
I do think the more you play, the more you will get a feel for the differences. I do not think it is a difference in playablilty as much as it is a difference in feel. I can make my $30 walmart cue do the same thing to the CB as my better cues, it just feels different, and the craftmanship is different.

Exactly. How a cue "feels" (in my opinion) has nothing to do with actually making the ball. However, if the cue "feels" good, it will transmit to your brain that you are the man! The balls will fall. Or if you have a nice expensive cue, you tell your brain, it can't the cue, it has to be me. The business end (tip area) is what makes the ball work, for me at least.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting caught up in the cue hype....feel, looks, rumor, and mostly reading post here. I have spent too much money (and still doing it) on cues in hopes of enhancing my game. My game is actually getting worst or at a stand-still because, in my opinion again, I am focusing on the cue and not actually making the ball. I should be working on the mechanics of pool with an instructor and saving my money. I played better pool with a $25 bar stick before I started buying cues.

But, I am a hypocrite (spelling may be wrong). I will continue to buy cues and read threads on this site. As many of you are (some don't admit it), I am adicted to pool stuff and caught up in the hype (and loving it).

JED
 

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh yeah, one more thing:

I remember in the early 90s when Johnny Archer was the guest a local pool contest near his home, we all entered and played (mostly with Meuccis and of nice sticks) and the winner was awarded with a new stick. Someone ask Johnny if he'd play a little. He did. He grabbed a warped bar stick off the wall and ran table after table. It was amazing. I think the stick even had a slip on tip (my brother owned the bar and was cheap). I saw then that good mechanics and practice was the key to playing good pool. It was amazing.

JED
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
Well feel is obviously highly subjective. It's also very often different for different people , meaning , I've seen 2 people hit the same cue and give different opinions of the 'feel' depending on what each is looking for and/or sensitive too.

'Feel' IMO , is mostly how you interpret the vibration and related reprocusions of the impact to the CB by your back hand. It's also tainted by the sounds of such. Things like the tip , taper , joint , handle type and overall weight are more primary factors while things like ferrule , wood type and weight at the joint and more likely secondary n influence.

Add all those variations together with the sound a cue makes and you can get some very subtle nuances that felt and interpreted with great variation by each person or in many cases , not at all by some.

IMO , things like cue 'feel' are like different kinds of music. We all know what we like when we hear it but not everyone knows what the intruments are that are making it. Some know , some think they know and some don't care to know as long as they can hear it. :)
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
FYI, I have a decent description (with links) of many of the quantitative and qualitative characteristics of a cue here:
Check it out,
Dave

Dave I enjoy your slow motion videos. Thanks for them. I'm curious about that tip / ferrule that was shown on the video. It would be great to do a few of those with known ferrule / tip / cue mfg. combinations.

I do believe that the many various combinations listed in your link indeed effect the feel of a cue. In my opinion there are three major factors that change the feel far more than perhaps all the others combined.

They are, The type of tip used, the taper of the shaft, and the balance point of the cue ( assuming we are comparing same weight cues.)

And in the end, when speaking of a relative new comer to the game that has yet to develop a particular preference, adjusting and feeling comfortable with any combination of quality cue would probably come quickly.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
tips and ferrules in videos

3andstop said:
Dave I enjoy your slow motion videos. Thanks for them. I'm curious about that tip / ferrule that was shown on the video.
The cue in HSV A.25 is a Players cue (306) with the factory tip. I don't know the brand, but it seems to have medium hardness.

HSV A76a was filmed by a group in Austria (see the link on the video page). I'm not sure what cue they used; but judging from the small ferrule, it might be a Predator. I think Predators come from the factory with Lepro tips, but I'm not sure.

Regards,
Dave
 

av84fun

Banned
jed1894 said:
Exactly. How a cue "feels" (in my opinion) has nothing to do with actually making the ball. However, if the cue "feels" good, it will transmit to your brain that you are the man! The balls will fall. Or if you have a nice expensive cue, you tell your brain, it can't the cue, it has to be me. The business end (tip area) is what makes the ball work, for me at least.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting caught up in the cue hype....feel, looks, rumor, and mostly reading post here. I have spent too much money (and still doing it) on cues in hopes of enhancing my game. My game is actually getting worst or at a stand-still because, in my opinion again, I am focusing on the cue and not actually making the ball. I should be working on the mechanics of pool with an instructor and saving my money. I played better pool with a $25 bar stick before I started buying cues.
But, I am a hypocrite (spelling may be wrong). I will continue to buy cues and read threads on this site. As many of you are (some don't admit it), I am adicted to pool stuff and caught up in the hype (and loving it).

JED

Most of us play pool because we think it is fun...not because we intend to go on the road or become tournament pros. So if changing cues all the time is fun for you then by all means keep at it and support the fine cue maker community.

But if your goal is to become as good a player as you can be, then as you have already noticed, you are going about that process EXACTLY wrong.

Allison Fisher has already...and is continuing to amass the greatest championship record in pool history and had done it with STOCK $250.00 cues.

There is no cue on earth that will provide you as much tangible and VERY near term increase in your skill level as taking 10-20 hours of lessons from a top instructor.

REMEMBER...a HUGE part of the improvement process is KNOWLEDGE based and has very little to do with the cue/tip combination.

Regards,
Jim
 

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:rolleyes:
av84fun said:
Most of us play pool because we think it is fun...not because we intend to go on the road or become tournament pros. So if changing cues all the time is fun for you then by all means keep at it and support the fine cue maker community.

But if your goal is to become as good a player as you can be, then as you have already noticed, you are going about that process EXACTLY wrong.

Allison Fisher has already...and is continuing to amass the greatest championship record in pool history and had done it with STOCK $250.00 cues.

There is no cue on earth that will provide you as much tangible and VERY near term increase in your skill level as taking 10-20 hours of lessons from a top instructor.

REMEMBER...a HUGE part of the improvement process is KNOWLEDGE based and has very little to do with the cue/tip combination.

Regards,
Jim

Not to argue, but I don't think Allison Fisher, nor Johnny Archer (Scorpion cues), uses a factory shaft. Allison's Cuetec butt may be factory, but the shaft and tip are not. I don't think she uses a fiberglass shaft. But I understand your point--and you are right. She would be just as good with a $40 players cue. Her mechanics is the best I've ever seen.

JED
 
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