Difficult (for me) 9-Ball Shot/Position

This is a basic shot I have trouble with too. In fact I ****ed it up in a hill game of a set yesterday:D I am going to work on this some today using the follow-left option and see if that works better for me than trying to draw it back:)
 
Cuebacca said:
The easiest way for me to make the 8 and get shape is going forward with a little top and a lot of left.

Using low right, I didn't think I'd be able to make it past the side pocket, but after trying it, I was wrong. The side pockets still look big to me though.

Nice safety you guys pointed out.
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The side pocket is indeed big if you're trying to draw this back. I can't miss it to save my life when I attempt this shot.

-Andrew
 
jongreve said:

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not necessarily the ideal thing to do, but what is wrong with simply giving yourself an opportunity that is within your ability?

-Jon
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Because if you miss the 8 ball shot you will leave a hanger for the opponent and almost a certain sell out.

If you make the 8 you leave yourself with a super thin cut which is also a sell out if you miss or a distance safety.

From that point, the best banker wins.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
Because if you miss the 8 ball shot you will leave a hanger for the opponent and almost a certain sell out.

If you make the 8 you leave yourself with a super thin cut which is also a sell out if you miss or a distance safety.

From that point, the best banker wins.

Regards,
Jim
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Yes, not the greatest play but I can see some intermediate players favoring this approach simply because it allows them to ride the 9. I can't say I disagree with such an idea considering how well most intermediate players bank. I mean, have you ever seen a C player miss a full table bank?
 
Andrew Manning said:
The side pocket is indeed big if you're trying to draw this back. I can't miss it to save my life when I attempt this shot.

-Andrew
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When trying it a few minutes ago, I hit the point once and got shape on the low side of the 9. LOL. :D

I think the trick is to hit it firm enough that low doesn't completely rub off, but soft enough that the right can take well off the cushion. On my better attempts, there was a lot of swerve to account for. Out of 5 or so tries, I think the best I got was about 1 diamond below the side.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Yes, not the greatest play but I can see some intermediate players favoring this approach simply because it allows them to ride the 9. I can't say I disagree with such an idea considering how well most intermediate players bank. I mean, have you ever seen a C player miss a full table bank?
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But the intermediate player is a heavy favorite to miss the 8 in the first place. Gotta compare apples with apples.

And yes, not only have C players missed full table banks, so too has every player who has ever played the game.

But my comment was that from that point, the best banker will win. Even among bangers, both may be awful bankers but one is going to be better than the other.

For those unwilling to attempt the low odds follow or draw shots, the 4 rail bank is just a forceful low/center shot that most C players can execute reasonably well and for such players is the far superior choice IMHO.

In fact, ending up with anything other than a VERY thin cut on the frozen 9 would be a low probability shot even for advanced players.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
But the intermediate player is a heavy favorite to miss the 8 in the first place. Gotta compare apples with apples.

And yes, not only have C players missed full table banks, so too has every player who has ever played the game.

But my comment was that from that point, the best banker will win. Even among bangers, both may be awful bankers but one is going to be better than the other.

For those unwilling to attempt the low odds follow or draw shots, the 4 rail bank is just a forceful low/center shot that most C players can execute reasonably well and for such players is the far superior choice IMHO.

In fact, ending up with anything other than a VERY thin cut on the frozen 9 would be a low probability shot even for advanced players.

Regards,
Jim
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Yeah, of course. IMO, there are two options here. For some players, there may be one or two more. Nobody posted the reverse off the second rail shot which plays nicely here (I can't do it that often). No matter what, the out requires some talent. The safety does not but leaves you vulnerable to talent.
 
I really don't see where the side pocket comes in when drawing this shot, there is plenty of room to spin/draw/drag, or whatever you wish to call it past the side for the two rail shape, unless you just don't have much power in your stroke!
Jeremy
 
For any player, the speed of the table is a part of the decision here. For a C player, driving the eight safe to the head rail is probably the best percentage for a chance to win. Yet keep in mind, driving the eight to a completely safe position will nevertheless require good speed control.
 
instroke75 said:
I really don't see where the side pocket comes in when drawing this shot, there is plenty of room to spin/draw/drag, or whatever you wish to call it past the side for the two rail shape, unless you just don't have much power in your stroke!
Jeremy
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Just from a quick look-see while I'm working, I'm agreeing with Jeremy. Depends if the 8 is frozen, really. If the 8 is a little bit off the rail, the way I play this shot is by hitting the 8 pretty flush and spinning it in - the angle of impact makes the 2 rail option much easier (maybe 5:00 english). If you're playing the 8 with a standard cut, you're in for a hard-time no matter what your position choice is.

Dave
 
Thank you for all of the responses!

If the 8-ball is frozen or very nearly frozen (think a couple millimeters), drawing into the side pocket is a heavy favorite of mine. I'm still not comfotable enough with the follow shot to be able to pocket the 8-ball most of the time. The safety is pretty intriguing and I'll have to practice that a few times.
 
Jeremy and Dave, go ahead and set it up on a table and try it. Then let us know if you really don't see how a C player or even a B player could easily scratch in the side, or even the opposite side. :) Of course, it depends on your definition of a B player. ;)

I don't think it has as much to do with stroke power as knowing where to hit the ball and having the accuracy to execute. JMHO.
 
Cuebacca said:
Jeremy and Dave, go ahead and set it up on a table and try it.
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Just to clarify, I'm sure you guys don't have a problem with the shot. What I mean is that the side might appear more dangerous in real life than it does on the Cuetable, because the bird's eye view isn't what we're used to seeing on a real table.
 
instroke75 said:
I really don't see where the side pocket comes in when drawing this shot, there is plenty of room to spin/draw/drag, or whatever you wish to call it past the side for the two rail shape, unless you just don't have much power in your stroke!
Jeremy
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Well, it's not a "drag" shot at all. And c'mon...with more than 4 diamonds of seperation between CB and OB and with the 8 ball frozen so you can't get ANY back on the CB before rail contact, getting passed the side pocket requires a SUPER draw stroke with a LOT of spin.

Mostly spin really because the tangent line is 2 diamonds below the opposite side so you need to overcome more than 2 diamonds to get above the side.

It's MAYBE a 70% shot (including reasonable shape on the 9) even for pros...most of whom would use follow....IMHO.

Regards,
Jim

EDIT: I assume we are talking about a 9 ft. table.
 
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This is how I address this shot

Cuebacca said:
Jeremy and Dave, go ahead and set it up on a table and try it. Then let us know if you really don't see how a C player or even a B player could easily scratch in the side, or even the opposite side. :) Of course, it depends on your definition of a B player. ;)

I don't think it has as much to do with stroke power as knowing where to hit the ball and having the accuracy to execute. JMHO.
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Whenever I attempt to draw back on a shot similar to this position, I have a test I use. I come back 2 diamonds on the other side of the table from where the OB is located. It always seems that my normal draw at this angle will bring the CB back this distance.

Since the OB is exactly located 2 diamonds below the opposite side pocket, I'm pretty sure that I will scratch unless I do something different than normal. Either more juice or slightly less.
 
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