digital vs machinist levels
- Thread starter Majic
- Start date
John, for once I agree with you 100%
and just for your own information purpose, the level of the slates change once again AFTER you bolt the rails on, so...no matter how well you level the slates before the rails are bolted on, you can level it even better if you bolt the rails on before you install the bed cloth, then fine tune the level again under the tension of the rails being bolted down, THEN after you install the bed cloth and rails, the slate will go back to the level it was BEFORE you took the rails offGlen
OTLB
Banned
way too much money for that kind of level. besides since it has that gap it isn't very helpful, if there is a crown there you may not see it or valley. Sort of like putting a level across the grand canyon.
How well that test measures is in the density of the slate itself....
Otherwise, Chinese, Brazilian, and Italian would all weigh and play the same, and not be affected by the conditions they are exposed to so much.
And sometimes you run into slate that has seams that are harder or softer than the rest of the surface-
Everything you do affects that fine tuning that you did during the leveling process.
Which one is most likely to cause more shifts in the slate position - wedge shims or flat shims/playing cards?
No shims between the frame and backer obviously has the most level surface area, but suppose you have a ridge in the center support on a table, or on an import table that the center supports don't match up across the board.
Not everyone tries to fix manufacturer defects and errors, so you see a ton of shims when you come along down the road.
During that time, the slate has been flexed into whatever position the shims put it into and held it at.
Now, even without shims, they aren't sitting flat, at least not everywhere.
But I digress....
Whatever level is the closest to meeting or exceeding the manufacturers specs is the right tool for the job.
As for using a long 4-8 foot level to tune up a table, what happens if there are small areas that need corrected that the level just passes over?
a 12" level will find all kinds of flaws that a 24" level doesn't show.....
A big level is fine for the initial set up, but when it get down to the nitty gritty.... smaller is better.
Although using a 4" starrett is probably a bit of an overkill...lol:wink:
The rails changing the levels of the slates when they're bolted on can take place on any table, don't matter who built it. On a Diamond ProAm the slate is designed to be leveled with the rails bolted down because the rails tie the frame, slate and rails all together, as the slate is free floating until the rails are bolted down
Glen
Ever level a Gabriel's...?
The proof is in the pudding.
If you have warped rails on one, due to the design, it's pretty much impossible to get a solid level.
That's what i figured but was thinking if you dont hit the highs it sits in the valley and vise versa. but it does look cool. It would be like putting a long level on to pencils to check level from end to end but not in the middle; you would have to keep bumping it every 3 inches or so to use it like a starrett.
Thanks,
Craig
I would give you another one but it wont let me
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lets put some tables together you post what you want i'll match it or double it.. you can use your digital level and i can use my level then we mix up the table parts from table to table no labeling use your level again i use mine or we can use a new cue ball and slate level ball only no levels.
I might like I have an Iq of 80 by you but I live like it's 200 and my quality of work makes me look like a Genius ( @ least not like a hack )
How many tables have you installed with a digital level by you? (Majic)
I might like I have an Iq of 80 by you but I live like it's 200 and my quality of work makes me look like a Genius ( @ least not like a hack )
How many tables have you installed with a digital level by you? (Majic)
Gabrial tables are fun fun fun as in when your done you have nomore hair to pull out.lol..
You get the slate flat or level then add the rails and as you tighten down the slate moves because your rails are not true they have moved from bad storage or moisture got into the rails. Anyways if you install the bed cloth first you'll be sorry rails will tweak the slate. Assemble it naked & torque down to the right settings and level then cover with cloth it'll save you a toupe in the long run.
Craig
You get the slate flat or level then add the rails and as you tighten down the slate moves because your rails are not true they have moved from bad storage or moisture got into the rails. Anyways if you install the bed cloth first you'll be sorry rails will tweak the slate. Assemble it naked & torque down to the right settings and level then cover with cloth it'll save you a toupe in the long run.
Craig
You use a runnout gauge or dial indicator to check for flatness. no level can check for flatness when it is compared to a run out gauge then you get true flatness or an idea of much runout there is in the slate. then you use a several sizes of levels to bring the pooltable into a playable condition that everyone excepts as level ie flat without hone the slate assemblied with a body file or a milling machine to surface the slate true again.
What micon finish on the slate and what are the tolerances of true flat+- 10,000th or 100,000th of an inch how much are you willing to pay for this perfection knowing that all 4 elements work with or against you when you assmble a table.
Here a link for micron finish if you dont understand it what it is.. http://www.clearlakefiltration.com/pdf/surface_finish_chart.pdf
There nice I love em untill I work on them that's why I say every used table is a test of your knowledge instead of a simple install. Hope for the best prepare for the worst case scenerio. I did 2 Gabrials with Glen first one was tricky second one was 6 legged and was I glad I was with Glen on that one you wouldnt belive it steel frame new and sway back alot 3/8" or better. It was a challenge all 3 days but shes perfect now.
Craig
They are still some of my favorite tables, but you just have to handle them a little differently and expect to deal with things that you don't have to on the majority of tables.
Every table has it's quirks, this one just has different ones....
That require a bit more preparation and a phone call if things aren't going according to plan....:wink:
And you're out of ideas.lol
A Gabriels Signature Pro 9ft has to be leveled twice, once when the slate is installed as a normal 3 piece slate, then again after you super-glue the slates together with the rails on and no bed cloth. The reason for the second leveling is because the slate timber-strand is fixed to the steel C channel frame rails, the slates mount to the timber-strand frame with machined bolts and nuts. The slates are leveled with upside down machine bolts that when screwed in or out, raise or lower the slate seams to level. When you have it all level, then you install the rails, bolt the rails down to the slate, because the rail bolt washers don't pass through the timber-strand frame, they pull the rails down on the slate, which then pulls the slate down to the timber-strand frame, therefore changing the level of the slates under the pressure of the rails being bolted down. The only way to level the table at this point is to re-level the slates one rail bolt at a time, using wedges to fill in the low points to bring the level of the slate back up to where it was before the rails were bolted down. Make sure to leave off the rail blinds as it makes this part of the slate leveling much easier Then when you're all done leveling, take the rails off, recover the slate....don't put you're level back on the slates to check for level because the slates will be out of level, and won't level back up again right....until you re-install the rails again and tighten them back downGlen
you can not check flatness with a dial indicator it is impossible you will be only be checking a thickness or height measurment with a dial indicator. the only way to check for flatness is between two points on a surface i.e taking something else that is flat hopefully more flat than what you are checking and depending on how bad it is using shim stock in the lowest area until you cannot slide it under with out the master moving (master is the flat piece you are checking with) i used to do this all the time when i surface ground pieces of steal bout the size of slate for pool tables
Think of it like this if you put a 2x4 on a old style tv you would see that it would sit on the highest point the middle, now put it on a new lcd or plasma it would sit and hit most of the surface of the screen. this is dramatized please don't call me out on this being a suitable way of checking for flatness
Think of it like this if you put a 2x4 on a old style tv you would see that it would sit on the highest point the middle, now put it on a new lcd or plasma it would sit and hit most of the surface of the screen. this is dramatized please don't call me out on this being a suitable way of checking for flatness