Disappointed w/ Jacoby Warranty

Whether it has a collar or anything else is irrelevant. If it comes with a warranty, it should be covered by that warranty. If the company doesn't want to warranty their cues, they should just say "sold as is".



HawaiianEye


I appreciate your comment, but I'm not sure we're on the same page as to what a warranty is.

Warranties general protect the consumer against defects in materials or workmanship. If a product fails because it wasn't built properly, then it should be repaired or replaced. However, if a product fails due to some kind of damage, then it shouldn't be repaired or replaced.

It's just like buying a car. If it develops an oil lead because a gasket failed, then it should be repaired. But, if you drive it into a light pole and it is damaged, it would not be a matter for warranty.

I think it would be great if we could just replace a shaft or cue for anything that went wrong with it. But, unfortunately, we'd have to charge significantly more than we do now or we would go broke. It's sad, but the world does have some unscrupulous people in it who would manipulate the system to get free stuff.

Fortunately, we've been able to build good quality products and not have too many issues that need to be taken care of. This is what helps us keep our prices well below our competition.


Thanks

Royce
 
That shaft to me looks like it was played a lot more then 15 hours. Lots of discoloration on the unfinished
part and metal wear inside the threads indicating is has been screwed together/unscrewed quite a few times.
From a picture I cannot judge this 100% but that is what I would be thinking if I saw the shaft and the owner
told me he had only played it for about 15 hours.

gr. Dave


Agreed, If I played with a cue for "15 hours max" you wouldn't be able to tell it was used at all except for the chalk on the tip.

Looking at that shaft I wouldn't accept it under warranty either.
 
i am also a dealer for Jacoby and I question how you ever got the shaft without a collar. they have always told me that they will not make a edge shaft without a collar on it for the reason you are describing here. They are prone to cracking without the collar.
I think there is more to the story here than we are hearing. I will be talking to David Jacoby this weekend at are state tournament. I will bring this up to him and report back my findings.
 
Warranties general protect the consumer against defects in materials or workmanship. If a product fails because it wasn't built properly, then it should be repaired or replaced. However, if a product fails due to some kind of damage, then it shouldn't be repaired or replaced.

Isn't that the basic problem behind a true sneaky pete joint? Collarless shafts are just built wrong in the first place. You don't have anything in your warranty that says collarless shafts are not to be warrantied when it should. I agree that any shaft abused shouldn't be warrantied, but when your warranty is worded so poorly a shaft owner is always unsure of whether their cue is covered or not.
 
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That shaft to me looks like it was played a lot more then 15 hours. Lots of discoloration on the unfinished
part and metal wear inside the threads indicating is has been screwed together/unscrewed quite a few times.
From a picture I cannot judge this 100% but that is what I would be thinking if I saw the shaft and the owner
told me he had only played it for about 15 hours.

gr. Dave

The shaft was a very tight fit from the moment I bought it. Debatable if it was to tight to begin with. I played league twice, one tournament and a couple nights at home against my Dad with this cue and it cracked while I was at home playing. I have incredibly "oily" hands so all of my shafts get a discoloration within just a few uses. Either way I didn't post this just to trash Jacoby. It's a nice cue but it did crack under the circumstances described and I have no reason to blatantly lie about how it occurred. Bob, the dealer, saw it in person with his own eyes and knew the purchase date and when the crack occurred and covered the replacement himself so I think that says a lot about the actual condition of the shaft/cue.
 
My phone won't let me upload the other pictures at the moment but you can clearly see that the other picture makes it seem much more dis colored due to the flash of the camera than what it really was.
 
Mike

I remember the conversation. It wasn't easy, but sometimes what's right isn't easy.

And, for the record, we don't ever say that someone "abused" a cue or shaft. That's not our place to decide. What we do is determine the cause of the failure. If that turns out to be a defective product we take care of it hands down. If it turns out to be something completely outside our control or the normal use of the cue, then it won't be something we can replace under warranty.

Also, we do educate those who have us build a collarless shaft that it weaker at the joint without a collar. It's when the shaft is either purchased as a partial and built out by someone else, or we build it for a dealer that we don't ever speak directly to the customer.


Thanks

Royce


Hi Royce

I am not here to split hairs with you over this all over again.
But unfortunately your dealer didn't educate his customer about the inherent weakness of a collarless shaft.

This customer learned the hard way just like the OP of this thread is learning...

This is why I don't buy sale or make a collarless shaft because the collarless shaft is weak, it breaks very easy in some cases and 90% of the time the customer has no idea how fragile a collarless joint actually is.
And has no idea that no one will warranty collarless shaft split at the joint.
You do not say in your warranty policy you don't warranty collarless shafts but the person I talk to on the phone did say that....

Its unfair to customers not to inform them and to be 100% honest I was told by who ever answered the phone the first time I called that you don't warranty a cracked joint on a collarless shaft......

I argued this with shane I believe or who ever answered the phone the first time and I will not change my story just because you are a famous shaft maker.
Shane said he never said that so either I am lying or he is.
Because as per what you said either shane or you are the only ones who deal with customers on warranty issues

Your 3/8x10 pin and 3/8x 11 pin wood to wood jointed shafts have outward pressure being applied to the joint area by the pins snug fit.
Without a collar its a ticking time bomb yet you still sale them but don't warranty the joint and your dealer didn't inform the customer who sent me a OB shaft to be repaired because he no longer has faith in OB Cue.s
If your dealer didn't bore the pin hole 100% perfect it would of cracked the shaft just as it was on the one I tried to get warranty on............
I was told it was side ward pressure that broke the collarless shaft,
I say the pin hole was to tight for the laminated wood and it split it out.
My customer said he takes good care of his cues and I believe him because he has had no issues with the cue I sold him and one of the shafts was a non laminated LD shaft.
This was about a year ago, he also has two OB shafts that had failed in about a years time....

Same customer 2 OB shafts failed with in one year and the ld shaft I sold him hasn't failed....
And for ( any ) reason if the shaft I sold him failed I would make him another one for free because he is a honest and valued customer......
And Its not that big of a deal to make him another shaft , I rather make another shaft and take the loss then to every have to deal with unhappy customer like me.

Bob Danielson has had one LD laminated shaft that fail in 20 years..... ONE
The customer who sent me his OB classic now has two OB classic shafts sitting in his closet, both failed and one was repairable and it wasn't sent back to you for the repairs, it was sent to the OB dealer who made the Partial into a cue shaft and he didn't do anything to help his customer.

The customer got left with 2 failed OB shaft and the dealer wouldn't go to bat for him..

As you said above you never talk to the customers about the inherent weakness that a collarless shaft has.
Well that lack of a education or up front warning never made it to my customer and he got burned out a few hundred bucks.
But what the hell you got your money and your dealer got his money.
And the customer will never buy another OB shaft just like the op of this thread will never buy another Jacoby.
 
Yes I understand that but in this instance misuse or abuse was far from reality. It cracked straight up the middle from the joint/pin. I can understand a denial after maybe 6-9 months of use but 3 weeks and maybe 15 hours of play on the shaft and never dropped, knocked over or anything that could have caused an unnoticeable stress fracture. Very disappointed in their decision to say the least.
.

If it is a true sneaky without any joint rings, it is a problem waiting to happen. And it is normally abuse that causes it to crack. But when I say abuse I need to clarify that all it takes to crack a shaft without collars is to tap the side of the cue fairly hard or to hit a ball with the joint even the slightest bit loose. That turns your butt pin into a splitting maul. I quit building cues without rings years ago after discovering that weakness.

The cues that do not have a brass insert are much more likely to have it happen. I guess that is the price people are going to pay for trying to fool people into thinking they are playing with a house cue.
 
I believe this is the reason that McDermott used a brass insert on their "Hustler" cue the M-11B. Even at that they stopped making the cue in 2009. I have not had a problem with mine but I do not use it for breaking either, or try not too.

If it ever splits I will buy a collared shaft. You really don't fool anybody that can play, so what's the point? I just like wrapless 4 pointers.
 
Had I been aware of the weakness of the shaft I would have never purchased it I can tell you that much for sure. It also makes no mention of this weakness anywhere on jacoby's website as well. Atleast not that I could find.
 
Brick and mortor dealers

Bob Cook is the best have dealt with him on many occasions and RG Billiards is the only place in the southeast that has a large enough stock of cues and shafts to say you shopped for a cue, if you are in Birmingham Al you should stop in plenty to look at including nice collectable cues also tables (most anything)
 
Well I have a designated break cue and only played with it for 15 hours max so it's hard to not take care of a cue in that short amount of time. Either way, here is a picture.
15 hours with that shaft and it has that much discoloration? Really?? Sorry, I don't believe that at all. Let me go as far to say, I have never, ever seen any type of new shaft played with that looked that bad after 15 hours. I really don't know how it can?
 
Hi Royce

I am not here to split hairs with you over this all over again.
But unfortunately your dealer didn't educate his customer about the inherent weakness of a collarless shaft.

You are correct. Whoever sold that shaft to that customer may or may not have told them that a collarless joint isn't as strong as one with a collar. And OB Cues has no control over that. There are several Distributors who sell our Partial shafts to cue makers, retailers, and the general public. There are countless ways a consumer can end up with a Partial and have someone put a collarless joint in it. I would hope that whoever put the joint in would mention it to the consumer, as he's the one installing the joint.

This customer learned the hard way just like the OP of this thread is learning...

This is why I don't buy sale or make a collarless shaft because the collarless shaft is weak, it breaks very easy in some cases and 90% of the time the customer has no idea how fragile a collarless joint actually is.
And has no idea that no one will warranty collarless shaft split at the joint.
You do not say in your warranty policy you don't warranty collarless shafts but the person I talk to on the phone did say that....

We don't say in our warranty that we don't warranty collarless shafts for several reasons. First, we do warranty all our shafts. Saying that we don't warranty this one or that one is incorrect. What we don't do is warranty damage that is beyond a defect in material or workmanship. If we received a collarless shaft that was split at the joint, but it was an obvious defect, then we would of course warranty it, and this has happened! Second, we don't offer a collarless shaft. It would be a custom build. In which case we are talking to the person buying it and do inform them that it is weaker without a collar.

Its unfair to customers not to inform them and to be 100% honest I was told by who ever answered the phone the first time I called that you don't warranty a cracked joint on a collarless shaft......


If my memory serves me correctly, the shaft you called about was a collarless shaft built from a partial. In that case, we would not warranty any joint related issues as it's not our work.

I argued this with shane I believe or who ever answered the phone the first time and I will not change my story just because you are a famous shaft maker.
Shane said he never said that so either I am lying or he is.
Because as per what you said either shane or you are the only ones who deal with customers on warranty issues

Your 3/8x10 pin and 3/8x 11 pin wood to wood jointed shafts have outward pressure being applied to the joint area by the pins snug fit.
Without a collar its a ticking time bomb yet you still sale them but don't warranty the joint and your dealer didn't inform the customer who sent me a OB shaft to be repaired because he no longer has faith in OB Cue.s
If your dealer didn't bore the pin hole 100% perfect it would of cracked the shaft just as it was on the one I tried to get warranty on............

I'm not sure that you understand what a "Dealer" is. I have no idea who put the joint in this shaft. Our warranty clearly states limitations on coverage with regards to custom joint work done outside OB.

I was told it was side ward pressure that broke the collarless shaft,
I say the pin hole was to tight for the laminated wood and it split it out.
My customer said he takes good care of his cues and I believe him because he has had no issues with the cue I sold him and one of the shafts was a non laminated LD shaft.
This was about a year ago, he also has two OB shafts that had failed in about a years time....

Same customer 2 OB shafts failed with in one year and the ld shaft I sold him hasn't failed....
And for ( any ) reason if the shaft I sold him failed I would make him another one for free because he is a honest and valued customer......
And Its not that big of a deal to make him another shaft , I rather make another shaft and take the loss then to every have to deal with unhappy customer like me.

Bob Danielson has had one LD laminated shaft that fail in 20 years..... ONE
The customer who sent me his OB classic now has two OB classic shafts sitting in his closet, both failed and one was repairable and it wasn't sent back to you for the repairs, it was sent to the OB dealer who made the Partial into a cue shaft and he didn't do anything to help his customer.

We honor the warranty on all of our products. If your customer has 2 failed OB shafts and would like to send them in, we would be happy to honor our warranty. We can't do that if they are in a closet. Way back when all this took place, I asked you to have the customer contact us. Our warranty is a legal binding agreement between OB and the first retail purchaser of our products. A dealer, or cue maker such as yourself should not be involved. All it does is complicate things. If you would like to help your customer get warranty service on those shafts, ask him to contact us, or follow the simple instructions on our website. We would happy to help.

The customer got left with 2 failed OB shaft and the dealer wouldn't go to bat for him..

As you said above you never talk to the customers about the inherent weakness that a collarless shaft has.

This is simply not true. If we build a custom shaft with no collar, we discuss the limitations of a collarless joint. If the joint work is done by anyone else, you're right, WE don't inform the customer about anything as we have no idea that it's even happening.

Well that lack of a education or up front warning never made it to my customer and he got burned out a few hundred bucks.
But what the hell you got your money and your dealer got his money.
And the customer will never buy another OB shaft just like the op of this thread will never buy another Jacoby.


MMike

I understand, but really just wanted to clarify a few things for those who may be reading this.

First, see my responses above.

We stand behind our products 100%. It's unfortunate that we can't just give a brand new shaft to everyone who has one that breaks for any reason.

Well over 90% of our sales are wholesale to Distributors, Retailers, and Cue Makers. All of which are independent business'. 100% of our warranty is directly between OB and the owner of the product. With regards to the shafts that MMike has mentioned in this thread, OB still does not have any communication with the owner. If that owner could communicate with us, we could easily determine if would provide some assistance. Until then, we have no way to get the information that we need to be able to provide any assistance. It's that simple.

As for collarless joints in OB Shafts, there are hundreds if not thousands of them out there in the world right now. Being played with and enjoyed by their owners. On some, the joints were installed by us. On many they were installed by others.

As for shafts that have split at the joint. Yes, we have seen a few of them. Many of them even had collars on them. If the split is determined to be a failure of the shaft itself, then we take care of it. If the split is determined to be caused by something else, we don't. This can be true even if the joint work is installed by someone else.

We provide warranty assistance all the time. There are many, many OB shafts out there, so we expect to have some product come back to us. Many of the issues we see are taken care of with no questions asked over and above what's required on our product return form. Some of the issues are not a matter for warranty. No matter what, we always try to help the customer out in some way shape or form. It's unfortunate that we just can't please everyone.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Bob Cook is the best have dealt with him on many occasions and RG Billiards is the only place in the southeast that has a large enough stock of cues and shafts to say you shopped for a cue, if you are in Birmingham Al you should stop in plenty to look at including nice collectable cues also tables (most anything)



I would agree.

RG Billiards is a long time Dealer for OB.

Bob is a great guy. Even if he can't play a lick! Ask him about the spot I have him at the APA tournament a few years back! ;););)

Royce
 
I would agree.

RG Billiards is a long time Dealer for OB.

Bob is a great guy. Even if he can't play a lick! Ask him about the spot I have him at the APA tournament a few years back! ;););)

Royce

I'm interested to hear what he has to say about that! Lol. Btw how many more of these darn facebook contests to I have to enter before yall send me a shaft?!? I mean thanks to Jacoby I had to buy a OB-1+ to replace their shaft and it was a big improvement! I'm actually looking to order a 30" shaft soon I just have to find a 30" butt to go with it.
 
15 hours with that shaft and it has that much discoloration? Really?? Sorry, I don't believe that at all. Let me go as far to say, I have never, ever seen any type of new shaft played with that looked that bad after 15 hours. I really don't know how it can?

When I used 1080 chalk my shaft could easily look like this after 15 hours of play. Also, a cue that is cleaned with an abrasive and not properly resealed could take a ton of color within an hour.
 
I'm interested to hear what he has to say about that! Lol. Btw how many more of these darn facebook contests to I have to enter before yall send me a shaft?!? I mean thanks to Jacoby I had to buy a OB-1+ to replace their shaft and it was a big improvement! I'm actually looking to order a 30" shaft soon I just have to find a 30" butt to go with it.


Well, it was kind of a gag spot, but it sure was funny!

Claude was the one who set it up.


Keep plugin on the contests! Your number has to come up sometime, doesn't it.:confused:

Royce
 
RG Billiards

I just want to reiterate that Bob is a great guy and goes way beyond the expected to ensure his customers are happy and taken care of.
 
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